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ESPAR Engine heaters group buy.

LanduytG

Vendor
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Greenfield, IN
TDI
99 NB 82 Westfalia Diesel
Hi All,
If anyone would like to buy the Espar D4 diesel fired engine heater for $750 without timer and $875 with timer. I need to have at least 3 committed to buy to get it at this price.
Greg
 

wkendrvr

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Location
Stafford VA
TDI
tdi
How does it work without the timer, and can it be added later? (I know I don't need it down here in VA, but we go up to Michigan in the winter...)
 

BA

New member
Joined
May 29, 2002
Location
Twin Cities
I'm interested in more details on how and where this unit would fit in a Jetta. Does it feed the heater core first or the block? Does it have a circulation pump? Wiring? etc?

Thanks, BA

[ November 04, 2002, 09:54: Message edited by: BA ]
 

VelvetFoot

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2001
Location
Sand Lake, NY
TDI
NB, 2000, Yellow
How much of a safety hazard is this heater? An enclosed garage would fill with fumes, right?

What would be cool if this could be interfaced with a cell phone, so, in my case, I could call up the car and start the heater, so it would be nice and toasty when I get there.
 

John B.

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Location
Calgary
TDI
2002 Jetta GL TDI
Originally posted by VelvetFoot:
What would be cool if this could be interfaced with a cell phone, so, in my case, I could call up the car and start the heater, so it would be nice and toasty when I get there.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am pretty sure that this is an option in europe.

If it were me using it in a garage, I would install a CO detector and add some vents.
 

weedeater

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Location
Reston, VA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
Don't most cell phones for cars have an output that can drive a relay? Used to sound the horn or turn off the radio for an incoming call...
 

LanduytG

Vendor
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Greenfield, IN
TDI
99 NB 82 Westfalia Diesel
The heater can lay on its side for easier installation. The way I would hook it up on the A4 is the coolant line that comes out of the engine and goes to the EGR cooler, put it in series with this one. Then you will heat the heater core first and the engine second. Also this seems to be a better flow path. The heater has a built-in water pump. If you hook it up to the fan motor switch you will have a warm cab and deforsted windows. I do not have a Jetta, mine is a NB and it has room to mount it on the firewall behind the engine. Its great to be at work on a sub zero day and cam out and have a warm car ready to go. Better yet is the day you have freezing rain and your windows are almost clean and you go home while others are still chipping and scraping ice.
Greg
 

Ted_Grozier

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2000
Location
Hanover, New Hampshire USA
TDI
2002 Golf GL 4-dr
Greg, this is so tempting, but wow the cost!

What do you make of Espar's recommendation that the max fuel supply line length be six feet? Do we need an auxillary pump?

Can the timer take a remote input to "start" that is generic, or is the Espar key fob thing required? There may be a newly vacant button on some Golfs and Jetta wagons...

I would like to install it between the engine and the battery, above the shift linkage. I'm not sure it will fit but will make a cardboard mock-up to check.

Some thoughts on the heater:

- At 4000 Watts, it is four times as powerful as the (much more affordable) electric heater sold at tdiheater.com. People report 1 hr on that being a good warm-up time, so 15 minutes on the D4 should do pretty well. In this time it will use a maximum of 4 oz of fuel.

- In freezing temps, it takes 5 miles for any substantial heat output from my car. I estimate that the Espar, started cold, would halve that time.

- I think the timer, while nice, is unecessary if you park near your house. If, for example, we can get the hatch of the Golf to be synched with the door locks, the freed remote channel could be used to start the heater just before hopping in the shower, for example. It would also be possible to manually wire the blower to come on above a certain coolant temperature, providing initial cabin heat and also "residual" heat (like M-B's REST system) when running a short errand. Of course, if none of this works, $125 for the real timer will fix it!
 

LanduytG

Vendor
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Greenfield, IN
TDI
99 NB 82 Westfalia Diesel
Ted

The Espar is great, everyone that has ever bought one from me always says but the price. But after they have it for a winter they say they would not be without it.

I have 8 feet of fuel line on mine and its not a problem. It sat all spring and summer and when I fired it up this fall it lite the first time.

All you need for a remote is something that could drive a relay to turn the heater on. I would think it possible to do that with the remote door lock. Just make a latching circut so once the door lock is activated the relay closes and stays closed.

Also once the water temp gets to 130* it will activate a line out of the main harness. The line is hooked up to a relay harness that I build up and this will turn on the blower in the car.

You can install the Espar in any position so that will make it a little easier to mount. I think on the fire wall behind the engine is a good place to mount it. I would hook it up to the hose that comes out of the engine and goes to the EGR cooler. This then goes to the heater core so you will have fast heat in the cab as well.

You would like once you got it in.
Greg
 

C Brown

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2001
Location
Ohio
AFAICT the heater will not fit behind the engine at all, but was my fist thought. Probably too much heat from the turbo anyway. I just now installed mine behind the battery, standing upright (as allowed) and this places the water I/O twards the heater core, the exaust intak/outlet hoses twards the washer bottle (97 model jetta), with many easy roughting paths to under the car. I moved the battery as far forward as possible, and made an alunium L bracket to hold the heater vertical. I have a trace of it and is the only place it will work well under hood, on my model car (as far as hoses intake and exaust, and still being able to rought the water below the resiviour. This setup also has the heat exchanger on the bottom, and dosn't foul the shifter counterweights. Also the only flat place with a battery as balast, to calm down engine vibrations. Will take pictures if anybodys interested.
I got the Hydrounic for the safety of window clearing, and quick, instant comfortable warm up. it is high, but with an older car, which was less expencive, I beleive I can afford a treat. It will be going in the next car as well. and hey I beleive theese things retain there re-sale value, much like the diesel. Now if the fuel running from the return line attempt goes well, I would call it an easy install.


Regards
CB&Stoker
 

LanduytG

Vendor
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Greenfield, IN
TDI
99 NB 82 Westfalia Diesel
C Brown
I beleive you will end up putting the fuel supply line to the tank. I have tried many different places to get fuel and the only reliable place that works ever time is the fuel tank. Hope it works out for you.
Greg
 

LanduytG

Vendor
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Greenfield, IN
TDI
99 NB 82 Westfalia Diesel
Ted
If you want a D4 let me know, I have and order in at Espar now and they would be happy to throw in another heater.
Greg
 

C Brown

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2001
Location
Ohio
I will post some photos, Ted. I just brought my camera to where I am doing the install, but don't think I can post stills from here. Will get something up in the next few days.
LanduytG , I was afraid somone was going to say that...

I did some experiments on the fuel, and disconecting the fuel inlet makes the engine not run, if allowed to drain, and is a real PITA in this regard, and the return is very foamy maybe with a a separator, and I have no Idea on how bad it will be to drop the tank. How am I going to burn off 12 gallons??
poor planing on my part.

Best Regards
CB&Stoker
 

LanduytG

Vendor
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Greenfield, IN
TDI
99 NB 82 Westfalia Diesel
C Brown
Just wait till the tank is about empty then drop it. I have not drop a VW tank but truck tanks are easier than you think. I think if you look at it and make a plan you can have it all done in 1-2 hours. If you have a floor jack that would be helpful too.
Good luck
Greg
 

car54

theGAME
Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Location
Woodbridge VA
TDI
2002 Jetta
Originally posted by LanduytG:
C Brown
Just wait till the tank is about empty then drop it. I have not drop a VW tank but truck tanks are easier than you think. I think if you look at it and make a plan you can have it all done in 1-2 hours. If you have a floor jack that would be helpful too.
Good luck
Greg
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I once saw somebody drop the tank out of a beetle. took him a full day (I cant say he knew what he was doing). I dunno about the other models, ive never done one before, but the plastic molded fuel tanks VW uses seem to fit the car like a glove and dont look easy to remove. Why cant you just tee a line off the fuel line either before or after the filter?
 

LanduytG

Vendor
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Greenfield, IN
TDI
99 NB 82 Westfalia Diesel
Car 54
You can tee off the fuel line, but it will not be reliable. You have a 2mm line drawing out of and 8mm line. As long as the fuel line is fullyou are ok but once the line drains back you will be SOL. The Espar just does not have the suction to draw fuel up the big line.
Greg
 

wkendrvr

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Location
Stafford VA
TDI
tdi
Originally posted by LanduytG:
Car 54
You can tee off the fuel line, but it will not be reliable. You have a 2mm line drawing out of and 8mm line. As long as the fuel line is fullyou are ok but once the line drains back you will be SOL. The Espar just does not have the suction to draw fuel up the big line.
Greg
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like a small pump might help, and would prolly be easier to install...
 

C Brown

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2001
Location
Ohio
LONG!
I think I have found a better place to draw the fuel, without dropping the tank. Wile E Coyote super genius!
Just using a bolt with a steel tube soldered thru the middle, going up inside the fuel filter, from the water drain hole. The 2" long so, going up into the filter, should keep any filter collected water (if any) out of the heater, and be low enough to not get any air from the top of the filter. Now an Air/fuel/water-separator, This so far works great, and causes no problems starting.

Now for the water, Also the default heat exchanger water line location should be moved from the suction side of the espar, because this way the upper hose is connected to the top hose air side of the resiviour, originally to get rid of air in the heat exchanger,(was an output pressure line) So I will have to again re-route the water, from the block, to the espar, to the heat exchanger, to the heater core (yippee)..
This all believing the water comes out of the drivers side of the block to the EGR heat exchanger, to the heater core and back to front of the motor??? right? I don't have my book over here to be positively sure, but it would make the most sense.
BTW Sometimes the intake and output hoses of the espar are the same temp, indicating to me there is little flow, but not sure if it cycles the water pump when it heats up. Also the exhaust heat out Espar is high and (sounds like a jet engine) when cycling on high, and should be routed thru the heat exchanger on the back of the diesel motor, for better heater efficiency (if you have a spare you are not using).

Regards
CB&Stoker
 

LanduytG

Vendor
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Greenfield, IN
TDI
99 NB 82 Westfalia Diesel
CB

You are right, the coolant should come out of the drivers side of the block throught the Espar then onto the EGR cooler to the heater core and back to the engine. It will work great that way. As far as noise that little sucker is loud if you don't put a muffler on it. If you don't have one let me know and I can put one in the next order. The are all stainless and cost is 20-25 dollars. It will be interesting to see how your fuel pickup works after the heater has been on for and hour or so. Keep me posted on how its going. The Jettas have a lot more room on the drivers side than the NB do.
Greg
 

C Brown

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2001
Location
Ohio
The heater works great with the re-route.. engine to 160f in no time at all. Wow! real heat. I have to wire in a relay for the defroster to run on low, I don't think the Espar will have to run very long from cold. Now if I could find a good place for the seven day timer. The light/dimmer could be moved, and the control would fit *exactly* in this spot using the din bezel.. The lightswitch would be OK under the dash, the timer would not. Otherwise has to go to the center console, and a custom two angle faceplate, (which the car needs anyway, for any gauges) but this would get rid of the cup holders and cubby hole, almost useless anyway, no great loss.

Thanks Greg, I don't know if I could find a place for the muffler, unless I go with a longer exhaust tube, and some heat shield material to safely clear the flammable bits, currently going straight down and just behind the belly pan.

Regards
CB&Stoker
 

C Brown

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2001
Location
Ohio
DO! now do like the seven day timer, it has three memory locations for each day, and increments days automatically for tomorrow, if today's selection time has passed. I still would opt for a long range remote, when needed. I have been informed the remote still uses the timers, selectable runtime. The other reason to get the seven day timer, seems to be for it's heater fault diagnostic displays.

I was mistaken, just like I hopped, but the manual doesn't go into it at all, had to find it out in use, those crafty Germans!
For the Best Espar heater info take a look here, just like the manual.

http://www.espar.com/pdfs/hydronic4_5.pdf

Regards CB&Stoker

[ November 11, 2002, 12:56: Message edited by: C Brown ]
 
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