ESP - Golf/Jetta/Jetta Wagon/NB 2002-2004

kd7iwp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Location
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Golf GLS
During those years they changed from a mark 20 system to mark 60. There is a different abs pump and master cylinder. However, as far as I'm aware, there should not be any connection whatsoever to the CCM. They are on separate CANBUS's.
 

mtbe

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2010
Location
Finland
TDI
golf IV V6 ( R32 swap) 4motion, Bora variant TDI 4motion ARL
Ok, thanks!
What are advantages to get upgraded? Better handling? Is it engine ecu that controls it? Just thinking to change r32 engine to my golf...Maybe in this summer. So i just want to know if i "had" to do this too :)
 

mtbe

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2010
Location
Finland
TDI
golf IV V6 ( R32 swap) 4motion, Bora variant TDI 4motion ARL
So i need the parts:
ESP duosensor 1j0 907 655 and 1j1 907 637C
ABS 1j0 614 517L with esp 1j0 907 379 P
brake cylinder 1j1 614 105 S
+connector
+wires?
My current car is 2000 v6 4motion, and will swap the R32 engine mk4 on it (BFH)
Thanks.
 
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kd7iwp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Location
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Golf GLS
I believe you will need to have the parts listed at the beginning of this thread. Check what part numbers you currently have and see if you can keep any of your existing parts. I don't think there would be a performance difference.

I'm not sure if you need a new master cylinder or not. The mark 20 cylinders have 2 pressure sensors on them but the mark 60 only has one.

You mentioned the duo sensor, you will need a new one of those. The mark 20 system has 2 separate sensors for lateral movement whereas they were combined into 1 unit for mark 60.

You will also need to change your wiring to upgrade to mark 60 since it has a 47 pin connector on the ABS pump whereas mark 20 has a 20-something pin connector.

The brains for ESP are inside the ABS pump.
 

cz137

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Location
Boulder, 5340'
TDI
2002 4dr 5spd Golf 160k, 2002 Jetta Wagon 5spd 125k
Bump.

I have a complete ESP setup from an '03 Jetta that I'd like to install in my '02 Golf. I humbly resubmit the request for verification that this is possible using a stock '02 ECU.

Dealing with the immobilizer to swap ECU's would be a pain!
 

blizzard60

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
2002 is very questionable from what I have heard based on kd7iwp's experiences and posts here. He could not get communication with the clockspring over the "DRIVETRAIN" can network no matter what he tried. Last I heard he was waiting for a newer ECU to swap and try. Not sure how he made out with that though.

I'm not sure if there is a way to verify whether or not your '02 ECU will work or not without trying it...

I hope that helps [somewhat],
-Chris
 

Steve99

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
Langley, BC
TDI
04 Golf TDI, 04 R32
As far as I am aware kd7iwp installed the new ECU, and it was still a no go. I believe we will be spending another day on wiring at some point.
It has been confirmed by other sources the North American 2002 ECU will not work.
Swapping an ECU is pretty easy if you have your SKC's and VCDS.
 

cz137

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Location
Boulder, 5340'
TDI
2002 4dr 5spd Golf 160k, 2002 Jetta Wagon 5spd 125k
Thanks for the responses. So if the '02 ECU definitely does not work, and an '03 ECU doesn't fix the problem what else could it be?

Hopefully kd7iwp will find an easy fix in the wiring somewhere that will make the '03 ecu work. Maybe then he can swap the '02 ecu back in just to confirm it definitely won't work.

I also saw a reference (earlier in this thread?) that rocketchip programming will enable ESP on ECU's not so equipped. Any confirmation on that?

I REALLY REALLY want ESP, so I love this thread. I spent a whole day at the junkyard pulling a complete uncut harness out of an '03. I'm doing a Climatronic retrofit as well, so while the dash is out... ;-)

Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread, especially the OP.
 

Steve99

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
Langley, BC
TDI
04 Golf TDI, 04 R32
Once kd7iwp's install is working we do plan to flash his 02 ECU with the code from an 03 - I have it all ready to go, and I'm sure it will work.
 

blizzard60

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
I spent a whole day at the junkyard pulling a complete uncut harness out of an '03.
You'll get faster as you pull more of them ;) I pulled a harness about 2 months ago in 90 minutes from a fully intact car! The wrecker wanted to charge me $500 in labour. They sh!t their pants when they saw I was done they actually offered me a job ;) !! It was pretty funny :D
 

blizzard60

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
Thanks for the responses. So if the '02 ECU definitely does not work, and an '03 ECU doesn't fix the problem what else could it be?
I think the bottom line is that '02s have been quoted several times as working, but we KNOW '03s work. Therefore kd7iwp's problems must be of the wiring kind.

Steve, did you guys take a multimeter to the clip on the back of the clockspring? When I first got my car back together it had no joy to the clockspring as well. Turns out I had forgotten to ground it. Perhaps checking continuity would be a good start?

Lastly, while I remember, can you shoot me a pm about meeting up for the mirrors? I'm not working at the moment, so should be able to meet up. The mirrors are sitting on the floor by the front door, and I don't want my wife to kill me, so they need to move soon ;) !!!!!
 

kd7iwp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Location
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Golf GLS
I didn't have Internet in Princeton this weekend so I couldn't reply. My apologies for not re-checking my wiring yet for the steering angle sensor yet. Do you know if the part number on yours ends in AP or AG? Both of the sensors I have tried are AP but this thread originLly mentioned AG's. But I could never find any AG's for sale.
 

cz137

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Location
Boulder, 5340'
TDI
2002 4dr 5spd Golf 160k, 2002 Jetta Wagon 5spd 125k
The AP part number was what the ESP cars were originally equipped with. It's been superseded by the AG part number. They should both be compatible. I've been told that sometimes when the airbag deploys the clockspring gets fried.
 

cz137

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Location
Boulder, 5340'
TDI
2002 4dr 5spd Golf 160k, 2002 Jetta Wagon 5spd 125k
kd7iwp, is your car an early or late '02? I.e. does it have a single or double DIN radio?
 

andrew_mp

New member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Location
Spain
TDI
Seat Leon 1.9 TDI 110bhp (ASV)
Hi, I have a Seat Leon 1.9 TDI 110 and yesterday, I bought these parts for only 120 € ;) :

-Master Cylinder
-
Brake Booster
-
ABS Pump and Controller
-
Combined Sensor
-
Canceling Ring/Steering Angle Sensor

But I have read that 2001 ECU isn't compatible... but I have ABS/ASR MK.60.
Is that true?

Sorry for my english but I'm spanish and the only place where people talk about ESP, is this forum.

Thank you very much.
 

kd7iwp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Location
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Golf GLS
I finally got it working!!! My steering angle sensor hasn't been showing up to the ABS unit for months. Today I disconnected the CANBUS wires from going from the sensor to the OBDII wires and instead routed them through the firewall and tapped into the CANBUS wires right before the ABS unit. Now it shows up and I was able to calibrate it. The road test was really simple. Just stomped on the brakes, the ESP light flashed, and I did one figure 8. I've been putting together a PDF that has the complete procedure (with pictures) documented and I will upload it soon. Thanks everyone for the help!
 

kd7iwp

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Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Location
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Golf GLS
Right on!! You like it?!
Not sure if I like it yet, it hasn't been used. I did stomp on the accelerator from a stop and the tires chirped a bit, but no flashing ESP light. Might need to wait for a rainy day and try it out.

The next thing for me to do is put my old 2002 ECU back in and see if it still works.
 

cz137

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Location
Boulder, 5340'
TDI
2002 4dr 5spd Golf 160k, 2002 Jetta Wagon 5spd 125k
That's great news. So you are running on a stock '03 ECU now or does it have special programming? Is the '03 ECU a straight replacement for the '02.5 ECU? Please post your results with a stock '02 ECU. Great work on the .pdf too!!
 

Steve99

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Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
Langley, BC
TDI
04 Golf TDI, 04 R32
Excellent news! Sorry I didn't return your call today, I was in the middle of a fierce racing battle. I can only assume the obdii wiring is the other canbus and as a result it was messing us up.

Please do pop in the original 2002 ECU and see if it works. Then drop by and we'll upgrade the 2002 ECU's firmware if needed.
 

blizzard60

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
As far as I'm aware, the OBD port ONLY has drivetrain CAN which is what you need. It doesn't make sense?! We'll just chalk this one up as "glad you got it working" and everyone's happy!!!!!! :D
 

kd7iwp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Location
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Golf GLS
2002 ECU appears to work

Tonight I put my '02 ECU (038 906 012 FD) back in and the car started/ran fine. The ABS/ESP lights did not turn on and I had no DTC's. So perhaps it works fine for 2002. I didn't test it out anywhere since I don't feel like spinning my wheels on gravel.

I was wrong After spinning the wheels on wet pavement the ESP light never flashed while the wheels were slipping. When I had the 2003 ECU installed, the light would flash.
 
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cz137

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Location
Boulder, 5340'
TDI
2002 4dr 5spd Golf 160k, 2002 Jetta Wagon 5spd 125k
Sweet! Do you have any idea what was causing the problem in the first place then?? As blizzard pointed out I don't think there is any CANBUS or other wiring differences between the '02.5 models and the '03's.
 

kd7iwp

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Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Location
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Golf GLS
Sweet! Do you have any idea what was causing the problem in the first place then?? As blizzard pointed out I don't think there is any CANBUS or other wiring differences between the '02.5 models and the '03's.
The problem was that the CANBUS wires I connected my Steering Angle Sensor to apparently don't connect up to the BUS that the ABS controller is on, even though they are the same colors (orange/black and orange/brown). Once I connected the sensor to the CANBUS wires right where they connect to the ABS controller, it was immediately recognized.
 

SilverGhost

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
Let me get the wiring diagram when I get to work, but the CAN buss wires at the DLC just go back to the gateway (J519/ address 19). The K wire at the DLC does go to the ECM, TCM, etc.

Jason
 

kd7iwp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Location
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Golf GLS
2002 ECU does not appear to work

I had said in an earlier post that the 2002 ECU works with ESP. I now believe that was false. This morning in the rain I gunned it from a stop and my wheels were spinning for a few seconds, but the ESP light never flashed. I had done the same thing a few days ago with a 2003 ECU and the light flashed and cut my fuel. So even though a 2002 ECU doesn't throw any DTC's, it doesn't appear to receive messages from the ABS unit.
 
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