Error Code... Start of Ignition Timing Regulation... help please

[miningman]

Out and about in my 2003 tdi today.... previously running close to perfect and I went over some rather vicious washboard. Would have slowed down more than I did if I'd recognised how bad it was. Regardless as I try to accelerate at the end of the wash board, no way. Wouldn't rev passed about 1200 rpm, sounded and felt like a 4 cyl gas motor running on only one cylinder. No excessive smoke, no apparent oil leaks. Managed to struggle home at nothing better than 20mph in second gear....... wouldn't pull third. Had to pull in at a mall lot when the lights were against me at while idling there , full throttle managed to rev passed 2000rpm with very large quantities of black smoke. but quickly cleared and again 1200-1400 was the best we could do.

Thoughts of damaged turbo or hose that had popped off crossed my mind as well as possible skipped tooth of timing belt. However once home , no oil leaks confirmed , oil level is normal and all hoses apparently OK.
And yes the vehicle is fitted with a aluminium skid pan so its unlikely that anything was kicked up towards the belts.

Hooked to VCDS to pull only one code.. 17656, P1248-35-10, Start of Ignition Timing Regulation , Control Deviation Intermittent.

Best guesses as to what has happened please. I'm not bad mechanically but I don't trust myself to play with the fuel pump nor to do timing belt work. Maybe that will have to change but I need pointing in the right direction.

And if anyone in the Calgary area wants to earn a few $$$ , Ill gladly pay for competant help.

 

[BobnOH]

What's a washboard? If you drove it thru water and it began to run funky you could have a serious problem, possibly hydrolocked one or more cylinders. Let's hope not.

 

[Vince Waldon]

Factory air filter, or aftermarket "high performance"? Fingers crossed for you, but yup sounds like bent rods due to water ingestion, if in fact what you're describing includes driving thru some water. A compression test would be the standard next step if this is the case.

If just standard rough dirt roads then chances are something shook loose... the code suggests the connector at the injection pump (code showed up after the problem?)

 

[KLXD]

I don't see bent rods preventing it from revving in neutral(parking lot) which I understand him to be saying.

I think something just shook loose.

 

[miningman]

BobnOH, washboard is a road condition that develops on gravel roads..... especially during spring where the surface takes on the appearance of washboard... really rough surface. Yes there was some minor water quantities but nothing like we all occasionally see due to plugged road drains etc.

The airfilter is a stock factory unit which I just pulled ... appears to be bone dry and zero dampness in the filter box?? Is there any other obscure way water could have been injested?? And yeah there were no codes showing prior to this incident and the MIL light illuminated after about 5 minute of slow driving.

Theres no loose wires etc in the area of the injection pump. I'm going to pull the front wheels and skid plate to look for loose vaccum hoses etc. Could a vaccuum leak contribute to my symptoms

 

[miningman]

KLXD , yes you're right , she wont rev when in neutral. Obviously I hope it is something loose.. that I can deal with given a few suggestions where to look

 

[BobnOH]

So it sounds like something came off, much better that hydrolock. You may want to look underneath, cover off.

 

[Vince Waldon]

KLXD , yes you're right , she wont rev when in neutral.

This is a good clue (and glad to see there's no water in your air filter... whew!!).

Here's a quick one to check: are your brake lights stuck on?

Reason being: car will not rev in neutral with the brakes on... and if the brake light switch got dislodged during the bumping...

Doesn't explain the black smoke you described... which is why I wondered about water ingestion... but if that's resolved maybe it's something basic and purely electrical.

Also doesn't explain the start of injection code... unless that's just an old one. SOI codes can randomly happen a bit as the pump ages... so it may be a red herring. Clearing it and seeing if it comes back might be good to do.

 

[miningman]

Vince , thanks for the obscure suggestion but no , the brake lights appear to be OK.

She wont even start right now but she's in the garage and I have another insured vehicle so its not as inconvenient as it could be. Will try to get underneath this weekend.

 

[Matt-98AHU]

Hate to say it, but the symptoms do sound a lot like the belt jumped time.

They tend to do that a lot easier if whoever did the belt last didn't tension the belt correctly...

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

The only times I've seen that code it was associated with an injection pump problem. Something may have come loose with the pounding you took. I'd check out the IP wiring, connectors including your injector #3 wiring.

 

[miningman]

More advice needed please. Having talked to a couple of knowledgeable individuals there was some optimism expressed that I did not have a jumped belt ..... but in fairness to those providing opinions, this was all provided without inspecting the vehicle. Suggestions were to really examine the entire air intake system and to change out the fuel filter ( this was overdue anyway). Did this work and still no start situation.

The advice was I did not need any special tools to set TDC and at least inspect the relevant timing marks. This will be my next task. Dont own a diesel compression guage so this waits. Anyone who disagrees with the idea of checking without special tools , please chime in, but I have no intention of wrenching on the belt system, I just want to pin point the most likely cause of failure in order to determine the likely repair costs.
A new timing belt job plus a rebuilt head is probably more than this vehicle is worth.

I've pulled the TB cover. The belt is at least there but to me the edge of the belt looks scuffed. But I've never seen a new belt so what do I know? Will try to get some photos.

I then made a troubling discovery. I own two of these 2003 tdis. The first is operated by my daughter. I had a timing belt job done on this one at 149,000 km in May 2008. The invoice shows a new belt, water pump and tensioner as well as mid roller, small roller and idler pulley. No mention of TTY bolts but theres now another 100,000 km on this vehicle and running OK.

The vehicle I'm presently having trouble with had a timing belt job performed by one of the main VW dealerships in Calgary in Feb 2013 at 171,000 km. Invoice shows a new belt , tensioner and water pump but absolutely no reference to any of the three pulleys!!! Obviously this could be a major factor in my present situation but conversely it would be a coincidence if one of these pulleys siezed up due to excessive vibration on the wasboard.

Theres no point in me ranting how upset I am to have paid for what I thought was a full TB job , only for the VW dealership to have done only 60% of the required work. I presently have 210,000 km on this vehicle so that also represents the mileage on these three idlers.

Obviously I would love to prove that this is not TB related but I'm getting less optimistic. Having changed the fuel filter I now cant bleed the system. I know I can do this given enough time if I prove the TB is good all round. If the belt has skipped, will this reduce the volume of fuel thru the pump?? To me flow rates appears lower than I'm used to.

And once again , anyone in the Calgary area who would be willing to assist, Ill make it worth your while.

 

[KLXD]

I hate bad advice. I don't see a filter going from ok to so plugged it won't run due to a bumpy road. Now another variable has been added to your condition; that being whether you've got it primed.

I suppose an air leak could have been caused by the shaking.

You can eyeball the timing. It can't jump less than a full tooth and if it's off that much you can see it.

You carefully checked the wiring?

Maybe set up an IV bottle to feed fuel.