EPA you win.

V-Rod

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Location
ND
TDI
2014, 06 Jetta TDI Auto
I do feel guilty on VW's dieselgate. I love my 14 Jetta but for the money, it has to go back.
I looked at ordering a 17 RAM ecodiesel, but that is now a dead horse.
So today, I bought a new RAM 2500 Cummins diesel. You know, I did it for the environment!! I will be sure to use my 98 12 valve Cummins to drive 40 miles whenever I need exhaust fluid.
Saving the environment, one.plastic jug and cardboard box at a time:cool:
 

rbreding

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Location
Oklahoma City
TDI
2015 JSEL (buyback) 2015 PSEL (buyback) 2016 328d (keeper)
EPA may now get whats coming to it with our Scotty Pruitt taking over. Can't wait to see what he does to that overreach of an agency.
 

Freeze Plug

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Location
CT
TDI
Turd Sandwich
Excellent. I plan on replacing mine with a cummins or dmax in the near future
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Remember, each earthquake is about 1000+ jobs hard at work!!!
 

V-Rod

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Location
ND
TDI
2014, 06 Jetta TDI Auto
Excellent. I plan on replacing mine with a cummins or dmax in the near future
The Duramax is really a nice truck!! 4 things persuaded me to get another RAM.
1. Ride,the rear suspension on the 2500 is awesome compared to the Ford and Chevy
2. Fuel Mileage is better ( but stock power is less)
3. Prices on the Ram's are really good, I got 15,000 off list!
4. I have had awesome luck with the RAM diesels (not saying there is anything wrong with the competition)
I do think the most capable new stock truck on the market today is the 17 Duramax.
I already have a untraceable tuner that I had on my 14 RAM, adds 100 HP and 200tq that will work on my new truck! Will put me around 480hp and 1000tq at the flywheel!!
 

vintovka

Banned
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Location
oregon
TDI
NO MORE VW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EPA may now get whats coming to it with our Scotty Pruitt taking over. Can't wait to see what he does to that overreach of an agency.
EPA and its evil clones like CALEPA need a serious trimming -- both regulatory and financial. First thing Trump needs to do cancel every Executive order and cut funding for these jerks and reduce staff by 50%. Believe me no-one would notice except the overpaid self righteous zealots that get canned. This is the second major hit i've taken as a diesel owner by these ignorant power hungry thugs. First was the brilliant diesel reformulation which destroyed the pump on my 83 Nissan Maxima and now my passat is off to destruction.
 

evantful

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Location
Montgomery, NY
TDI
2013 JSW TDI, 2016 Golf SE TSI
This is the second major hit i've taken as a diesel owner by these ignorant power hungry thugs. First was the brilliant diesel reformulation which destroyed the pump on my 83 Nissan Maxima and now my passat is off to destruction.
Just a friendly reminder that when your Maxima was built in 1983 the US population stood at 233 million people. Today it stands are nearly 320 million and continues to grow.

Yet if you look at generalized pollution trends across the country, they have vastly improved since then in spite of the fact that our population added nearly an additional 90 million people.

So unless the United States plans on implementing population control, the EPA, with whatever overzealous things it may have done over the years, has been as a great whole extremely beneficial to every member of our modern society. There was a reason Richard Nixon, a republican, authorized its creation in 1970.
 
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2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
EPA may now get whats coming to it with our Scotty Pruitt taking over. Can't wait to see what he does to that overreach of an agency.

.....as he comes from a fly over state (OKLAHOMA) ... and has many suits against the EPA ... hoping they DO get what is coming to them in SPADES
 

Buddenlee1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Location
Riverside
TDI
2014 beetle
Well if these cars go to mexico, there still gona pollute. And there still being drivin else where so the ozone layer is still gonna get messed up. This whole thing was stupid.yes they lied and should be in trouble but our cars passed at our level so they should of let it alone
 

rbreding

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Location
Oklahoma City
TDI
2015 JSEL (buyback) 2015 PSEL (buyback) 2016 328d (keeper)
The EPA reminds me of the song off the wizard of Oz......

"Ding dong the witch is dead, which old witch, THE WICKED WITCH"
 

Vidgamer

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2011
Location
Atlanta, Ga
TDI
2011 Golf TDI (turned in)
So you guys go from sipping diesel to guzzling diesel? Makes much sense.
It doesn't make sense from an environmental point-of-view, but it makes even less sense to take efficient diesel cars off the road (and crush them?) which were mostly OK. Most of us are going back to gassers. So, no, doesn't make much sense environmentally, but punishment trumps practicality, I guess. VW must pay, even if the environment is hurt more.
 

Jeta Life

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Location
NJ & North Pocono
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI DSG Auto
The EPAs witchunt against VWs self damaging stupidity has set a legal precedent. The big fine plus the buyback places this one in the history books and will be studied for generations.
Bigger blunder than GMs failed foray into diesel cars of the late 70s which sold much less. For what VWs EA 189 and EA 288 are worth, they've held up pretty reliably. My DPF conked out on me but the engine was solid.
Real shame what happened, was hoping to keep mine for a while but was up against some expensive PM:
Timing belt job never done, engine lasted 145,000 miles.
Bosch CP4 did not die but I only filled up at the same high turnover truck stop and did the fuel filter regularly. Thought about the CP3 upgrade but declined, took the buyback rather than spend a few thousand on those items.
It was a pretty good car, just the DPF cracked. I guess 1 out of three is not all bad.
 

XtreemLee

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Location
New Plymouth, ID
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon Wagon (bought back), 2006 Golf GLI
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EECSentric

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
Arlington, MA
TDI
2015 GSW TDI SEL DSG LP
I don't personally understand all the mud that is flung at the EPA (or for that matter the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, etc.). That isn't to say the EPA is fault free or that related regulations don't have adverse side-effects on individuals but generally EPA/CAA/CWA are a huge net positive. In a sense, the EPA is a victim of it's own success. Does anyone talk about acid rain or ozone holes anymore, is LA covered in a dense choking smog, do modern diesels roll coal? Thanks to the EPA regulations and enforcement, the answer is no.
 

psrumors

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Location
Cartersville, GA
TDI
MK4, MK6
I don't personally understand all the mud that is flung at the EPA (or for that matter the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, etc.). That isn't to say the EPA is fault free or that related regulations don't have adverse side-effects on individuals but generally EPA/CAA/CWA are a huge net positive. In a sense, the EPA is a victim of it's own success. Does anyone talk about acid rain or ozone holes anymore, is LA covered in a dense choking smog, do modern diesels roll coal? Thanks to the EPA regulations and enforcement, the answer is no.
I don't necessarily disagree with the premise, as I sit here with a deleted VW and Ford diesel along with tuned cat removed gassers. What I do have an issue with is the way the EPA goes about it, dictating what equipment can and cannot be utilized.

Set a standard for emissions and let the auto manufacturers get there how they please using whatever technology they please....and quit handing out vouchers so that others may pollute.
 

EECSentric

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
Arlington, MA
TDI
2015 GSW TDI SEL DSG LP
I don't necessarily disagree with the premise, as I sit here with a deleted VW and Ford diesel along with tuned cat removed gassers. What I do have an issue with is the way the EPA goes about it, dictating what equipment can and cannot be utilized.

Set a standard for emissions and let the auto manufacturers get there how they please using whatever technology they please....and quit handing out vouchers so that others may pollute.
I haven't looked at the regs so I may be incorrect here, but isn't that how they work now. For example, the I don't think the EPA requires specifically a catalytic convertor to all car manufacturers. The vehicle manufacturer is free to use whatever technology and then submits their vehicle to the EPA for certification, but a cat may be the only practical technology to meet the requirement and is thus a defacto standard in this example. Once the emissions system is certified for a particular vehicle, that is now required for that vehicle. The same is true for other pollution controls which is why we now have DPFs, SCR, EGR etc. since they are the only current practical mass-market technologies that can address fine particulates, NOX, SOX, CO, HC, when combined into one complete system (given that we now know that LNT on the 2.0L TDI wasn't sufficient to meet requirements).

There is also a voluntary program where the EPA will evaluate aftermarket products on their effect on emissions and economy, info on the EPA website. I doubt they would approve of a fleet of emission deleted vehicles, but it would be hypocritical of me to poke too much since I did chip my old ALH ;). Ultimately though if enough people break the rules or the violation is especially egregious, the enforcement mechanism has to kick in to make sure the regs have teeth. Dieselgate is exactly that.
 

kc1174

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Location
Charlotte NC
TDI
Was a 2015 A3 Prem Plus
It doesn't make sense from an environmental point-of-view, but it makes even less sense to take efficient diesel cars off the road (and crush them?) which were mostly OK. Most of us are going back to gassers. So, no, doesn't make much sense environmentally, but punishment trumps practicality, I guess. VW must pay, even if the environment is hurt more.
This.
VW had to pay. In all honesty the last year and a bit driving what I knew was a polluter despite great gas mileage turned me into the opposite of what I was. Before the A3 diesel, I had a hybrid. Hypermiled the hell out of that. Then got the 2015 A3 and found I was still getting 550 to 600 miles/tank with less hassle than in the hybrid.
Now I'm in an Audi S3 with 292hp and 0-60 in 4.6 secs getting about 15mpg.
If the EPA had any sense, they'd have pushed harder to keep us in our cars with higher restitution for taking the fix, or something to promote the fix over potentially moving on to something more polluting. As it ended up, everyone's taking the buyback and getting whatever they want (and they're not necessarily economical).
Ps a bolt of lightning creates on average around 15.4lbs of NOx. More CO2 creates more lightning = more NOx, so my S3 is probably worse at NOx than the TDI was. Food for thought.
https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/nox_lightning.html
 

dmarsingill

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Location
Dacula, GA
TDI
2011 Sportwagen Turned in , 2000 Z3 Coupe, 2003 Ford Expedition
I don't personally understand all the mud that is flung at the EPA (or for that matter the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, etc.). That isn't to say the EPA is fault free or that related regulations don't have adverse side-effects on individuals but generally EPA/CAA/CWA are a huge net positive. In a sense, the EPA is a victim of it's own success. Does anyone talk about acid rain or ozone holes anymore, is LA covered in a dense choking smog, do modern diesels roll coal? Thanks to the EPA regulations and enforcement, the answer is no.
The pre 2009 TDis didn't roll coal as you put it. Neither did the domestic trucks. Emissions standards in 2008 led us to the results you've seen in the air over the last 20 years. The OBDii intro did the most clean-up. I would be happy to see pre 2009 standards for diesel.

Donald
 

psrumors

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Location
Cartersville, GA
TDI
MK4, MK6
I haven't looked at the regs so I may be incorrect here, but isn't that how they work now. For example, the I don't think the EPA requires specifically a catalytic convertor to all car manufacturers. The vehicle manufacturer is free to use whatever technology and then submits their vehicle to the EPA for certification, but a cat may be the only practical technology to meet the requirement and is thus a defacto standard in this example. Once the emissions system is certified for a particular vehicle, that is now required for that vehicle. The same is true for other pollution controls which is why we now have DPFs, SCR, EGR etc. since they are the only current practical mass-market technologies that can address fine particulates, NOX, SOX, CO, HC, when combined into one complete system (given that we now know that LNT on the 2.0L TDI wasn't sufficient to meet requirements).

There is also a voluntary program where the EPA will evaluate aftermarket products on their effect on emissions and economy, info on the EPA website. I doubt they would approve of a fleet of emission deleted vehicles, but it would be hypocritical of me to poke too much since I did chip my old ALH ;). Ultimately though if enough people break the rules or the violation is especially egregious, the enforcement mechanism has to kick in to make sure the regs have teeth. Dieselgate is exactly that.
You used the perfect example, the catalytic converter. It was mandated as a device, it has now out lived its usefulness as proven by several white papers, yet the EPA will not allow the manufacturers to drop it.
 

wxman

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 26, 1999
Location
East TN, USA
TDI
Other Diesel
It should also be noted that production of diesel fuel (ULSD) produces lower emissions of criteria pollutants than gasoline (E10) per unit energy of product produced, including NOx, per the GREET model...


(BTUs or grams per mmBTU of product)

Parameter........................ULSD..........................E10
Energy………….....…..……….232,343................……..305,404
VOC…..…….......................9.617.........................31.483
CO.................................24.759.......................29.172
NOx...............................35.583.......................44.629
PM10...............................3.067.........................4.394
PM2.5..............................2.208.........................2.745
SOx…………......……..………….27.264….…......…….……..41.699


Factor in the ~15% lower energy-equivalent fuel consumption of diesels relative to gasoline versions, and the difference becomes even more significant.
 

fookin

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Location
California
TDI
A3
EPA may now get whats coming to it with our Scotty Pruitt taking over. Can't wait to see what he does to that overreach of an agency.
Yeah, bring back that leaded gas. Total overreach. And those silly seatbelts - they're for poosies.
 

fookin

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Location
California
TDI
A3
EPA and its evil clones like CALEPA need a serious trimming -- both regulatory and financial. First thing Trump needs to do cancel every Executive order and cut funding for these jerks and reduce staff by 50%. Believe me no-one would notice except the overpaid self righteous zealots that get canned. This is the second major hit i've taken as a diesel owner by these ignorant power hungry thugs. First was the brilliant diesel reformulation which destroyed the pump on my 83 Nissan Maxima and now my passat is off to destruction.
You moron.... The VW settlement came about because VW admitted to certifying non-compliant cars to the EPA. No other scandal in the past is like that. The contract is legal and they admitted to fraud. It's a switch that they turned on themselves. The EPA only needed to let it unfold.
 
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