Engine shut off while driving...possible 109 relay?

[wyopel]

I was driving to work today and the B4V suddenly shut off. Pulled over and tried to start it. It was rough but is started and seemed fine but then died again right away. Pulled over and tried again and again is started rough ran ok for 10 or 20 seconds then shut down again. It did this 3 or so time and I was able to limp to work. The last time, it started rough again, but then seemed totally normal.

So it seems like an electrical issue. My immediate thought was the 109 relay. A bit scary that it just shut down while driving. Thankfully I was on a low traffic road.

Could also be clogged fuel filter I suppose. I need to get this fixed and reliable quick. Does anyone have any thoughts that can speed up my diagnosis?

Thanks

 

[iluvmydiesels]

a clogged/ unmaintenanced fuel filter is a good bet. a few people have had this problem. new quality filter, prime first. change the air filter as well, if you havent done one the other needs it!, while your at it, clean the air-box.

PP has china brand 109 relays, ~$10 i guess. they work, for how long i dont know.
CEL?? do you have VCDS?

 

[Abacus]

Any codes thrown?

If it’s the 109 relay, the glow plug light won’t come on for a second when you turn the key. If it does, it’s not the relay.

For it running rough and then not, check the timing since I’ll bet your crank sprocket is moving. It’s easy to check by lining up the crank, injection pump, and cam. If 2 of the 3 line up but not the last, your crank sprocket needs replacing. Not a hard job but it must be done correctly.

If everything seems normal, it could be your crank position sensor. Do you have a Vag-Com? It’s invaluable for stuff like this.

 

[wyopel]

I swapped 109 with one I had on hand. Also swapped fuel filter.

Same issue. Car starts rough...but then gets going and seem to run normal with normal acceleration, etc. The it starts to sputter and dies. pull over to the side of the road...starts rough again but starts. Runs fine. dies. rinse...repeat.

I was able to get it home. I died 7 times over the course of a 7 mile trip. But it is now in my garage.

I checked codes with vcds. Only code was a egr code 00560 which has been there for quite awhile and I have ignored until I have time to swap. Any ideas of what else to check on vcds?

I could not get it to run long enough to check timing, but will look at that next. Once it starts it seems to run fine though, so I am not sure it is timing but will check anyway.

I will also check fuel lines for leaks or pin holes...it seems like electrical or a fuel issue.

Also, awhile back I attempted to remove the alarm module and jump the wires so it will still start. I have done this on a couple of other 1z vws. But it did not work...I could not start the car even with the jumper. I may have nothing to do with the current issue but makes me think of electrical gremlins.

Thanks again for the thoughts.

 

[wyopel]

Would a crank position sensor throw a code. Seems like it would.

 

[iluvmydiesels]

one of the only other things i can come up with is, check the clear line for air?

on VCDS there are 'blocks', 'groups', where you can check out different areas of engine, IQ for instance.

the one CEL code could have been up for so long, EGR clogged the intake over time??
one intake i pulled and took a look at was 1/2 or more restricted with egr soot. it at the time didnt have a whole lot of miles. mine i cleaned out, have the egr blocked, i should still have full intake flow. was $50 and about 24hours for a full chemical clean of manifold.

 

[TDIDaveNH]

The very first thing I would do in this case is to check the 3 wires going to the injection pump for chaffing as they exit the wire loom just inches from the plug-in connection that is held in a bracket bolted to the IP. This is a known problem spot which will cause the engine to die suddenly and without warning. The wires rub on the edge of the plastic loom from the engine vibration and despite being right in front of you can be a bit elusive to spot. There is a possibility that one wire is so worn that the voltage drop is just enough to stall the engine.

Even if it's not this for now, its good to get eyes on it and cut the loom back so it won't ever be.

 

[wyopel]

Checked timing and all is good there. Wiring to pump looks fine. I noticed a lot of air in the fuel line going to the pump. I did prime the filter when I replaced it...but lots of air. Seems like this could cause the sudden stalling.

Anyone have an idea on the issue I mentioned with the alarm module? To reiterate while back I attempted to remove the alarm module and jump the wires so it will still start. I have done this on a couple of other 1z vws. But it did not work...I could not start the car even with the jumper. I may have nothing to do with the current issue but makes me think of electrical gremlins. I can't imagine this is what is causing the stalling...but then again perhaps it is a sign of other electrical issues.

 

[iluvmydiesels]

air in the fuel line can be from any connection and/or hose, including such as the old filter, letting air in. check all connections. return 'T' can be bad. i ve had an old filter that let air in. it takes some time of running for the air to purge.
it can also be the pump. esp the main seal. check pump for leaks, moisture. for the main seal i like to take a light and a mirror and check under, around the pump gear and you may see if main seal is bad. its not always you can tell here.

 

[iluvmydiesels]

if i think about it. i think the injector over-flow/return lines can let air into the inlet of system.
id put all new return lines and an end-cap, up to pump, and replace return line from pump to filter('T'), check 'T', and line from filter to return plastic line. goes back to tank.

 

[wyopel]

Just got all new vacuum lines and viton fuel return lines that I will be putting in. Will also see if I can better seal up the T. Thanks again for the insights. I will let you all know how it goes.

 

[iluvmydiesels]

i think the 'T' either seals ok or doesnt. either you get it to seat right or you have problems, or its broke. you have to be careful with this 'T' its expensive to replace. mine i had to tap down. use fuel or additive to lube filter seal and easily try to seat. if you have to tap down, like i said -be careful doing that.

the large return lines can so the same. let air in. i think the one from the pump return to the filter ('T') is molded. regular FI hose can replace this, if to check for leaks. and the fuel line past the filter T to the plastic hard line.
some times clipping the worn hose ends and re-clamping can help. esp on molded/special hoses, lines.