Engine Oil Sensor - Extended Service Interval in Passat TDI

[vw_norm]

I was planning on installing the engine oil sensor (in conjunction with my 20K oil change) that I purchased and got all wired into the cluster. However, after I got the insulation cover off the oil pan, I was seriously bummed that there was no cover plate or hole that I could remove to install the new sensor. It looks like I will need to pull the oil pan and have a machine shop carve a hole for the sensor and tap the threads into the bosses that are there. Watch this space for more info on this latest modification.

This is a picture of the sensor (same as the Beetle TDI) P/N 03C-907-660-G:

And where I plan to mount it eventually:

I removed the oil pan to take to the machine shop. Took about an hour and 15 minutes altogether. There is is recess on the inside of the pan that'll help position the 41mm hole for the oil sensor. It was possible to remove the pan without having to remove the charge air cooler and water pump as stated in the manual. Just took a little wiggling to drop the pan to clear the brackets. The silicone gasket material is rubbery and removes with minimal effort. You can see the oil pump drive gear to the right side and the balance shaft assembly covering most of the crankshaft. At the bottom of the photo are the aftercooler and its water pump mounting brackets.

Here is what the inside of our crankcase looks like:

And the inside of the oil pan. i was surprised at how rough the inside of the pan was. Lots of bumps/nubs that I'll take the time to remove before reinstalling.

Got the hole machined and the bosses tapped for the bolts. The sump is a PITA to re-install, especially the 2 bolts nearest to the DSG since they are at an angle and are going into brass inserts in the plastic crankcase seal body. Anyone else attempting this, practice reinstalling the sump before putting sealant on the flange. It goes on only one way and you need to work rather quickly to ensure an effective gasket seal. The oil sensor is installed after the oil sump is secured as it interferes with installing the pan. Here's a couple pictures:

Hole only:

Sensor in the oil sump:

Sensor on the outside:

So I went into the adaptions on #17 - Instruments and turned on the ESI (Extended Service Interval), not that I intend from deviation from the 10K OCI, but was interested in seeing how VW rates my driving (changes are bolded):

;SW:561-920-970-C HW:561-920-970-C --- Instruments
;Component:KOMBI H07 0507 Coding:621E01
;EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04093 EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_SE35.rod
;Sunday 15 September
;VCDS Version: Beta 12.10.7 Data version: 20130802
;VCID: 1A1509831D0E4FCE639-804F
Activating and deactivating all development messages not active
(1)-Additional coding-Speed source via CAN
(2)-Additional coding-Coolant temperature source via CAN
(3)-Additional coding-Tank characteristic curve 1
(4)-Additional coding-Number of fuel level sensors 1
(5)-Additional coding-Locking bit locked
Automatic door locking No
Display correction of consumptions and operating range 100%
Display correction of fuel gauge 0
Display depiction Not available
Distance 32240 km
(1)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Status ESI or SID ESI or SID on
(2)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Selection of ESI or SID Extended Service Intervals (ESI)
(3)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Oil level Oil level evaluation
(4)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Oil pressure dynamic oil pressure
(5)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Remote clock receiver without remote clock receiver
(6)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Oil quality good oil quality
(7)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-TOG Oil level thermal sensor connected to instrument cluster
ESI: minimum value of time between inspections 744 d
ESI: Resetting ESI Reset
Hour 3 H
Indicator light for start-stop operation active
Language version US English
Minute 38 min
Seat belt warning Version 3
(1)-Service-key settings-p_write_delay_time 40 s
(2)-Service-key settings-p_write_delay_speed 20 km/h
(3)-Service-key settings-p_write_distance 20 km
(4)-Service-key settings-p_forcewrite_qual_time 10 s
(5)-Service-key settings-p_main_switch_keyless OFF
(6)-Service-key settings-p_main_switch_basis OFF
SIE: distance driven from inspection 300 km
SIE: maximum value km-driving distance/inspection 30000 km
SIE: maximum value of time between inspections 744 d
SIE: minimum value km-driving distance/inspection 15000 km
SIE: oil quality good oil quality
SIE: soot entry 600 km
SIE: thermal load 200 km
SIE: time from inspection 3 d
Speed threshold of dynamic oil pressure warning kein Offset
Service_Key_Clear_All_Counters Yes

But no dice. I have no oil temperature displaying, nor anything for the ESI data. Do I need to drive further than the short 10 mile trip I took today to warm the oil and test everything out (Answer is YES)?

I have the sensor connected to switched 12V, ground and run to terminal #11 on the cluster per the wiring diagrams for the V6. I didn't complete my 'official' wiring diagram yet, but will later. I selected certain parameters in the advanced measuring values and dumped the log file and got this. I found it intriguing that I got an Oil fill Level OK (bolded):

107 Engine oil temperature -58.0 °C
112 ESI: Maximum lower limit of time between mainten. intervals 744 d
113 ESI: Maximum upper limit of distance between mainten. intervals 30000 km
166 Oil fill level OK
203 SIE: oil quality good oil quality

Anyone got any ideas? Do I have the right oil sensor? It is supposed to be the one for the TDI. Do I have the right cluster (that would be bad)? Do I need to drive more to populate the dynamic OCI values (YES)? Anyone with a V6 that can dump their adaption file in #17 - Instruments so I can compare? Also, when I started refilling the oil, I only put in about half, and enabled the adaptions above. I had a flashing yellow oil can on the MFI, but that has since gone away (as expected) when the oil level was returned to normal.

I found this thread (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=38390&page=25) and it references driving 100 KM (60 miles) in order to reset this as well as a lot more detail on performing this mod. While an older thread, it also refers that these parameters reset whenever the hood is opened. I spent most of the weekend with the hood opened. Hopefully that is all it is.

With 200 km since changing the Instrument cluster adaptions (and my "thermal Load" parameter at 200 km), the extended service interval became active today, at levels corresponding to slightly less than the maximums stipulated by the adaption settings and accounting correctly for time and distance driven. With 744 days and 30000 (18641 miles) km max, it appears to have counted down correctly. But disappointingly, no oil temp yet!

Any feedback on the oil temperature is appreciated. TIA!

 

[bobt2382]

VW Norm,

Wow, nice work by the machine shop. I'm interested in doing this for my Golf. You might take a look at this post over on VWvortex. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5682890-Oil-Temp-on-the-MFD-How-Hard-Can-It-Be-(Part-II)

It details wiring the sensor and what he coded in VCDS for the cluster to get the oil temp to display. You might get some ideas! Let us know how it goes.

 

[vw_norm]

VW Norm,

Wow, nice work by the machine shop. I'm interested in doing this for my Golf. You might take a look at this post over on VWvortex. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5682890-Oil-Temp-on-the-MFD-How-Hard-Can-It-Be-(Part-II)

It details wiring the sensor and what he coded in VCDS for the cluster to get the oil temp to display. You might get some ideas! Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for the reply. I was impressed with the end result by the shop and for only $40! Way cheaper than a new sump. The machinist put it on his CNC milling machine, measured it, made a drawing of it and basically let the machine do all the work. It was pretty slick.

I found the Golf post you mention and I had did everything there as well, except that I made up my own harness rather than using the blank sockets on the stock plug that is behind the left headlight. I think that I will go and put the ESI back to a flat 10K miles, 1 year interval and just leave the TOG on, and see what happens. I've triple checked the input to the cluster to ensure I'm on pin 11, and the power and ground are connected to the proper places per the schematics. Kind of perplexed at this point and was hoping for someone with a TOG to post their instrument adaptions for comparison.

 

[bobt2382]

Sounds like you got it all wired correctly. Try asking in thread. Perhaps the OP will post up a scan of cluster. Peteski has a thread also, so there are two folks that may give you some data.

Did you try logging data with the VAGCOM? This may help verify that the sensor is actually reading oil temp and that the ECU can actually see the sensor. But looking at the MFD, looks like the ecu can see it.

107 Engine oil temperature -58.0 °C..... That negative reading is interesting.

I looked on some of the better VW parts sites and that part number appears to be used on almost every VW for the past 8 years, so I'll bet that is the one.

Final thought, did you look under ECU settings to see if you can set it for ROW vice NAR? That may allow ECU to "see" the sensor.

 

[bobt2382]

107 Engine oil temperature -58.0 °C

I was doing some readings with VAGCOM and decided to take a look at my cluster. Car does not have the oil temperature sensor on the oil pan.

Using the advanced measuring values for 17-Instruments, I checked location 107- Engine oil temperature and mine read -58.0 °C! I guess this default reading when the cluster can't see the sensor ( or the car does not have the sensor.)

 

[vw_norm]

I played around some more today, and just left it with TOG installed and level indication and returned extended service interval to standard 10K, one year. Also tried several of the country codes (currently Saudi), and ROW, but still no temperature joy. I even made a harness to intercept the one I made since there is a midpoint connector near the OEM 6 way plug for this sensor. I got 12V going to it and ground is good. Signal was odd as it seemed to bounce between 1.5 - 5 VDC, but I think I really needed a scope to read it since it was oscillating so fast. The feedback from the cluster connection was a solid 10 volts. I'm thinking that I may have the incorrect level sensor as there is a P/N variant for the new beetle TDI that is 1J0907660C. I dunno as there are several part number variations . I may buy a couple of them ( If I can pre-arrange a refund first) to see if they give a reading when plugged into the harness just to test. If all fail, then I'm thing that it may be the cluster, and that would be bad. There is a line 5- additional coding that is locked. I think that I need the security access code to unblock that, and that may end up giving more access to roam about in there to see if there is something about the oil sensor recognition. But it doesn't pop up when hovering over the box, nor can I find it anyplace. Probably something to do with the fact that no-one has info on the immo.

 

[bobt2382]

VW Norm,

Yea, the cluster may be the issue.

Check out the Jim Ellis VW parts site. Appears to br on line EKTA. Kind of difficult to manipulate. If you play around with it you can get what you want. Looks like they have European part numbers, USA, etc.

Not sure of the Passat codes, but plugged in 2011 Passat V6 w/DSG. and looked for oil sensor. This is what I got.

http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/show...line=8037&ukey_trimlevel=18978&modelYear=2011

 

[Birdman]

You might check with Lito , Back about 10 years ago we decided to do this mod and we had some pans made up by a local machine shop. When we used a pan the old one went into the shop and was made up for later use. So there may be a few pans laying around with the hole already cut into them.

 

[vw_norm]

You might check with Lito , Back about 10 years ago we decided to do this mod and we had some pans made up by a local machine shop. When we used a pan the old one went into the shop and was made up for later use. So there may be a few pans laying around with the hole already cut into them.

Thanks. but the pan is already modded and the hole made (see above). I'm stuck at the cluster not showing the temp, or even recognizing the TOG sensor installed. It's either the wrong TOG sensor I selected (easy to swap), or the wrong cluster (which would be bad).

 

[turbocharged798]

This was somewhat popular mod with the MK4 series.

If the new passat is the same, basically the cluster is not designed to accept the oil level sensor. You either need a euro cluster or break out the soldering iron and rip the cluster apart to find out what is missing for the sensor to work. On the MK4 VW left out some key parts out of the cluster for US spec vehicles. The traces were all there on the board but no parts. Adding the necessary parts made the cluster able to work with the sensor. Most people just swap in a euro cluster though.

That's really cool you can get oil temp in the MFA. The MK4 never had that.

 

[vw_norm]

This was somewhat popular mod with the MK4 series.

If the new passat is the same, basically the cluster is not designed to accept the oil level sensor. You either need a euro cluster or break out the soldering iron and rip the cluster apart to find out what is missing for the sensor to work. On the MK4 VW left out some key parts out of the cluster for US spec vehicles. The traces were all there on the board but no parts. Adding the necessary parts made the cluster able to work with the sensor. Most people just swap in a euro cluster though.

That's really cool you can get oil temp in the MFA. The MK4 never had that.

Thanks for the feedback. I was afraid of this type of response, but am thinking that this is the reality. VW puts nothing more and nothing less than what is needed to precisely meet the specifications for the individual vehicle. But, traces I can trace, hopefully there are some clues present to assist. Based on what I've seen in other cluster surgery blogs, I remain hopeful. This may turn out to be veeerrrrry interesting yet. I've an inquiry into Ross-Tech as well on this, so we shall see.

 

[tongsli]

This was somewhat popular mod with the MK4 series.

If the new passat is the same, basically the cluster is not designed to accept the oil level sensor. You either need a euro cluster or break out the soldering iron and rip the cluster apart to find out what is missing for the sensor to work. On the MK4 VW left out some key parts out of the cluster for US spec vehicles. The traces were all there on the board but no parts. Adding the necessary parts made the cluster able to work with the sensor. Most people just swap in a euro cluster though.

That's really cool you can get oil temp in the MFA. The MK4 never had that.

Maybe you can find someone on a German forum with your generation car who has already done this modification.

Like turbocharged798 said, the MK4's were much more limited in information displayed in the MFA.

I don't set mine to flexible anymore so it's just a level-sensor for me these days.

 

[compu_85]

Norm,

I diddled with this a bit tonight. I changed the adaptation setting for the oil level sensor:

Like your picture it put the oil temp in the MFA with ---*F. But I also noticed that if you cycle the key it comes up with a warning saying "Service Oil Sensor!". Does your car do this? If not I'm inclined to think the cluster is talking with the sensor fine...

I also found the oil temp in one of the ECU measuring blocks, and it does work...

-J

 

[vw_norm]

I have this set for TOG connected to cluster. Are you saying that you changed it to TOG not connected? I had nothing showing in the measuring blocks either with TOG connected. Nor do I get any warning when cycling the key.

 

[compu_85]

I changed it to "connected" and got the warning. Because you don't get the warning it makes me thing the cluster is talking to the sensor just fine

-J

 

[vw_norm]

I tend to agree with you wrt the cluster seeing the probe. I went and disconnected the level sensor (I have a three-way connector under the hood, near where the OEM connector is behind the left headlight) from the cluster and the only thing that happened is that the oil temp window disappeared and the service interval reverted to the standard 1 year, 10K miles, less the time from my 20K service last month. Plugged it back in, the oil temp window returned, still blank, but the service interval did not change back to flexible interval. How does your cluster part number compare with mine up in post #1 above? Same or different?

 

[compu_85]

Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb
Part No SW: 561 920 970 C    HW: 561 920 970 C
Component: KOMBI         H07 0507  
Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 231E01

Looks like it's the same as yours


So with the oil temp sensor turned on in software but the hardware unplugged it didn't add that display to the MFA? Odd. I'll have to check that again, I didn't see if it was still there after I power cycled the key.

-J

 

[vw_norm]

more testing done

I did a bit more work on this recently. I fabricated an extended wiring harness that I could use to bring the three wires convienently outside from under the hood. One wire I left continuous, the ground. The other 2 wires are 12 VDC to the sensor and signal back from the sensor to the cluster. I reverified all connectors and pin connections, so no errors there. I verified 12 V to the sensor. When I measured voltage on the wire from the cluster, I got a steady 10 VDC. However, the sensor gave me no output in volts or milliamps or millivolts whatsoever. It was almost like it was defective. With everything connected the signal wire to the cluster bounced rapidly between 6 and 10 volts. Now the interesting part. In between connecting and disconnecting and reconnecting the wire harness between the oil level sensor and car, I got this on the MFI:

So it would appear that the cluster is somehow 'seeing' the sensor being disconnected and this did not clear after reconnecting the cable connector. Had to cycle power to clear the warning. However, still no temperature reading. So I conclude 2 possibilities:
1. I got a malfunctioning sensor (03C-907660-G)
2. I got the wrong sensor model as there are several variants.
Does someone out there have one of these sensors installed (like on a VR6 (03C-907-660-R) or new TDI Beetle (the -G version) and measure what the output is of the sensor to the cluster? Anyone got another idea? I would buy a new VR6 variant oil level sensor to check it out, but not sure if this will do the trick. Preferably, one from a NMS VR6 Passat would be best as the clusters are similar. Since I got the Beetle TDI sensor now, I think its not compatible with my cluster. I am not sure if the different sensor models are the same physical size (mounting holes are all identical), but specifically height up into the oil pan.

 

[graeme86]

I beleive the sensor actually sends a pulse width modulated signal

 

[bobt2382]

VW Norm, Happy Holidays. Was hoping to see a post about this working on your Passat. I picked up an oil sensor from Robert at Riverside VW yesterday, P/N 03C 907 660G. Not ready to pull my oil pan and do the install yet. Would like to complete the wiring harness to that attaches to the sensor, run the wires and install the one to the instrument cluster, ground, and power. Do you think I would get a "reading" if I hooked up the sensor with it sitting outside of the oil pan? I want to give it a try to see if I can get the oil temp reading in VCDS and the cluster itself. Obviously if I get the intended readings, I'll know that this sensor will work with the Golf TDI's. I've read through the various threads and can't find the p/n for the connector that attaches to the sensor itself. Would you post it if you still have that info. Bob

 

[vw_norm]

Bobt -no, you won't get a reading. I tried the same thing, and did not get a reading. Thinking that the sensor had to be 'wet' or in oil, I waited to I installed it in the oil pan and refilled it with oil. Still no reading, and thus no updates to this thread. So I have done some research in the interim. I am about ready to pull the trigger on a VR6 oil level sensor, P/N 03C-907-660-R. The rationale here, if there is any, is that the cluster is the same as in the TDI Passats, other than the fact that it has a different tach, and some other subtle differences that shall remain a mystery forever. Anyhow, the 660G sensor is for a TDI, but the partsbase.org listing I see show it for the Beetle and Golf engine. Having looked at a bunch of pictures and images on google, dimensionally the two sensors appear to be the same height, which is the primary concern, although the part in the oil is different. Since it tucks up into the engine on the DSG side of the balance shaft assembly (yellow circle area), I'm thinking that there is room for it.

It appears that the cluster is looking for a signal from the oil level sensor to indicate temperature. I know that my cluster 'sees' the sensor, but obviously cannot interpret the temperature signal. Of course, if I got the other sensor, I would simply try to plug it in and see if I got a reading. There is also another variant of the sensor in the Chinese TDI passats, P/N 03C-907-660-M, but I don't know if that is available since I have not been able to find one to purchase on-line yet. I have even gone so far as to purchase a used VR6 cluster to plug into my car, but fear of screwing up the immo and kessy and really 'breaking' my car has kept me from seeing if the current sensor will function with it. Internally, the VR6 cluster and the TDI cluster look the same as far as tracing out the circuits until they disappear into chips. If it is a firmware issue, well then that is going to be another thread. But since I have yet to exhaust the obvious and easy choices yet, I think the 660R is my next best chance for try.

Couple of recommendations - you can remove the oil pan without removing the IC - it'll push out of the way to the front. Practice putting the oil pan back into place dry (without gasket maker) a couple times to ensure you know how to finagle it into place. It only fits a certain way. Also, chase the insert threads in the rear engine oil seal before installing the oil pan and make sure there is no debris in there. Had a helluvatime getting those two bolts properly torqued - kept feeling like it would strip out or cross thread. Also, install the oil sensor after the oil pan is installed. Won't fit otherwise.

OK - So I just reread your sig and realized that you have a Golf, not a Passat. Real interested if the sensor you got will give you a reading in your cluster. If it does, that would lend credence to my theory that the sensors are cluster dependent. Plus the other stuff about the Passat IC is not relevant to your Golf. So disregard my first paragraph about not getting a reading and let us know what happens when you hook it up. Good luck!

 

[bobt2382]

03c-907-660-m

Jim Ellis VW lists it for $ 114.81 http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/productSearch.aspx?searchTerm=03C-907-660-M Product fitment Volkswagen (VW) Passat 2009, 2010, 2011 Volkswagen (VW) Passat CC 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 Engine codes (PA) Passat/4Motion CCZA. (PACC) Passat CC CCZA,CCZB. CDAA,CDAB,. CCZA. CCZB. CDAA. CDAB.

 

[graeme86]

Don't forget there should be a code to say "Oil Sensor fitted" or something similar that needs to be enabled in the coding in the cluster for it to recognise the sensor.

 

[vw_norm]

Don't forget there should be a code to say "Oil Sensor fitted" or something similar that needs to be enabled in the coding in the cluster for it to recognise the sensor.

Yes - it's in the adaptions as well as the changes to the condition based OCI. See the beginning of this thread for more on that.

 

[Fixmy59bug]

Hey Norm,

Is there anything I can do to help?

I am guessing the wiring is not present on the vehicle, correct? If it is, I would be willing to order both the R and M and plug them in on my car and see if I get any sort of reading.

 

[vw_norm]

Robert - the wiring needs to be added. I see the M variant in your parts listing, so I have some other stuff to order as well, so will probably just go and get it. Need to connect power, ground and to the cluster. There is a 6 way connector under the left headlight that the factory would would pass through, but three holes are plugged on mine. I ran my own wiring separate from that. If Bobt gets a reading with the G version on his Golf, then I'm more confident the M should work on mine.

 

[bobt2382]

I'll need to get the connector from Robert. I have the correct repair wires already.

VWNorm,

Assume that the 3 pin connector shown on the right is PN 1J0973703B ?

What gauge wire did you use to wire-up the three pin connector, 18 gauge?

Bob

 

[Fixmy59bug]

Bob,

There are actually 2 different connectors that can be used on the oil sensor.

The first is 3D0-973-703. It uses the older style 000-979-131-E wire terminal.

The second connector is 8K0-973-703. It uses the newer style (and in my opinion much more reliable) 000-979-150-E wire terminal.

The connector you listed is slightly different from either of these listed.

 

[vw_norm]

I'll need to get the connector from Robert. I have the correct repair wires already.

VWNorm,

Assume that the 3 pin connector shown on the right is PN 1J0973703B ?

What gauge wire did you use to wire-up the three pin connector, 18 gauge?

Bob

No - I used the one that Robert lists above and the -E repair wires. It is a very secure fit with O-ring on the sensor port. $5.75 from Riverside - can't go wrong with that.

I used 18 gauge wire that I have from an old industrial harness. It's all white with the colors printed on the teflon insulation every couple of inches. Added benefit is that each of the 19 strands in each conductor is already tinned, and is very flexible wire. Soldered to the ends of the repair wires, shrink tube applied and made into a harness with friction tape, which I also pulled through split loom. When I do these kind of harnesses, I try to stagger the position of the solder joints to reduce bulk and to prevent abrasion if each were next to the other. Ran this from the sensor, through the engine-trans brace and up under the DSG to the front where I tywrapped it to an existing wire bundle up to the left front corner behind the headlight. There is an OEM connector there (used on the VR6) but I got a bunch of weathertight fasteners on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BYLYV1S/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and made up my own 3-way connector. You can always run the entire harness into the car and connect everything there. Ground (pin 2) is under the hood to a stud, and the 12V power (pin 1) is from the OEM location. The third wire goes to the cluster pin (pin 3 of sensor).
With the OEM skid pan and my panzer plate, i feel pretty secure about the wiring and sensor down there. Although the machine shop I took my oil pan to was a bit skeptical about me wanting to cut a hole in the bottom of my oil pan, it was pretty easy mod to do overall. Real interested if you can get a reading from your sensor connected up after you do the adaptions.

 

[bobt2382]

Thanks. I'll call Robert today and get everything on order.