Engine mount bracket threads stripped, uh oh

J_dude

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
Ok so I’ve been tearing my car apart piece by piece to get the timing belt changed and last night I got the engine mount removed, except I discovered an issue in the process. When I pulled the bolts that fasten the engine mount to the engine mount bracket thing, one of them cracked nicely and spun out by hand, but the other one... I had to use the ratchet all the way, and when I finally pulled it out there was aluminum shreds all over the threads, and a little pile of shavings around the hole on the bracket.
So I think I need a new bracket, but in the timing belt change PDF it says it can’t be removed without pulling the engine, so I don’t know what to do.
Any help appreciated!

Thanks,
Jude
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
Drill bit and a tap with a timesert or helicoil .
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
....So I think I need a new bracket, but in the timing belt change PDF it says it can’t be removed without pulling the engine, so I don’t know what to do.
Any help appreciated!

Thanks,
Jude

not true
You just need to have the pulley side of the engine at the proper height and the turbo's exit hose removed (probably not really necessary but it also helps) to get it out of there without breaking any of the inner TB cover plastic. I've done it numerous times.
Depending on your skill level and tool assortment, you can install the helicoil without removing anything by using the engine mount slot as a guide. But, if you feel shaky about it, take the time to remove and replace the bracket. The new hole that you drill for the helicoil HAS to be on axis with the old one or you will offset the load on the bolt head once it is installed.

If you do not have the stuff for helicoiling the bracket, that in itself can get pricey.


Here is a how-To
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=369932
 

JB05

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
TDI
Golf,2005,anthracite blue
On my BEW, I had to raise the engine to remove the bracket, three horizontal bolts. My guess is the car has to be on a parallel surface so that the two 12mm vertical bolts come out easily. I too had some shavings and made me very scared. I managed to chase them with the proper tap.
 

J_dude

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
not true
You just need to have the pulley side of the engine at the proper height and the turbo's exit hose removed (probably not really necessary but it also helps) to get it out of there without breaking any of the inner TB cover plastic. I've done it numerous times.
Depending on your skill level and tool assortment, you can install the helicoil without removing anything by using the engine mount slot as a guide. But, if you feel shaky about it, take the time to remove and replace the bracket. The new hole that you drill for the helicoil HAS to be on axis with the old one or you will offset the load on the bolt head once it is installed.

If you do not have the stuff for helicoiling the bracket, that in itself can get pricey.


Here is a how-To
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=369932

Ok yeah I figured there’s gotta be a way to get it out lol
So I dont have any helicoil stuff at all, would it be better to go with helicoil/timesert or just find another bracket at a wrecker?
(Thanks for that helpful link btw!)
 

casioqv

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Location
California
TDI
2009 Touareg TDI
I strongly recommend just buying some new mounts, they're not that expensive and the potential for danger/damage if they fail is huge. From my limited experience, the metal is really soft and these are unfortunately just one time use parts, despite the fact that VW labels so many things (but not these!) as one time use unnecessarily. I'd like to see the 'complete timing belt kits' include new OEM engine mounts.
 

volmaniac

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Location
McFadden's Ford, Stones River NMP M'boro, TN
TDI
02 Golf GLS

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Daughters car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Just make sure after you install the new mount and you’re ready to put the big bolts back in that you raise the engine so the two mount surfaces are touching. Put those two big bolts in by hand screwing them all the way to the heads BY HAND and then put a ratchet and torque wrench on them.

You have to remove them the same way, do not use those bolts to draw the engine mount into place.
 

J_dude

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
Well I called two auto wreckers to find a bracket and one of them said $25 and the other said $50, so I might just do that, I’ll just make sure it’s not already boogered, apparently it’s a common thing on these cars?
Also, I’m seeing a bit of oil seepage around my crankshaft, I guess I need to replace that seal while I’m in there, are those the same as the camshaft seals? When I ordered the TB kit there was options for “Camshaft seal (ptfe)” or “Camshaft/crankshaft (spring)” so from that I gathered that the spring ones are the same for both but the ptfe seal is not?
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
The crank seal is a 48MM diameter and the camshaft is 47MM...not the same.
If they are offering it as the same I would question the vendor's validity.

You will need some mighty tools to change the crank seal. Be prepared.
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
The crank pulley bolt is on there REALLY GOOD. You need a BIG breaker bar AND a proper counter-hold tool to get it off, and to put it back on, well, you need a torque wrench, said counter-hold tool and said breaker bar AGAIN.
 

J_dude

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
Cool, I’ve been doing some reading on that procedure. Sounds like a fun one.
I have most of the tools required, what I don’t have I can build or borrow from work, but now I’m wondering about the oil pump chain and tensioner, that’s supposed to be done at 300,000 miles right? Which would be 485,000 kilometres or so. I’m at 400,000 right now, is that something I should do while I’ve got it this far apart? Oof lol
And on another note, what if my seal isn’t actually leaking... that would be a lot of work for nothing now wouldn’t it. It’s not leaving puddles, just there’s oil around it and the sprocket and a bit on the TB cover, but from what I’m reading it could be coming from elsewhere? How would I check that?
Boy this is fun, I’m learning like 50 new things about this car every day! Hahaha
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagen, 2021 Atlas,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Cool, I’ve been doing some reading on that procedure. Sounds like a fun one.
I have most of the tools required, what I don’t have I can build or borrow from work, but now I’m wondering about the oil pump chain and tensioner, that’s supposed to be done at 300,000 miles right? Which would be 485,000 kilometres or so. I’m at 400,000 right now, is that something I should do while
I would do it.
Save some of the labor now, not to mention TTY bolts that may have to come out.
 

J_dude

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
I would do it.
Save some of the labor now, not to mention TTY bolts that may have to come out.

Ah yes good point, what say you of the pump itself? To replace or not to replace?
Maybe I should check it for wear.. will it be obvious?
Also much thanks to everyone for all the help!

Oh and are there any brands (good/bad/otherwise) of chain or tensioner to look out for? I’m not anxious to use junk haha
 
Last edited:

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagen, 2021 Atlas,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Ah yes good point, what say you of the pump itself? To replace or not to replace?
Maybe I should check it for wear.. will it be obvious?
Also much thanks to everyone for all the help!

Oh and are there any brands (good/bad/otherwise) of chain or tensioner to look out for? I’m not anxious to use junk haha
If the pump bearings wear the belt has a good chance of jumping.
End result very bad. :eek:

I buy my parts from https://www.idparts.com/
Have not had any problems with them.
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagen, 2021 Atlas,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
My bad, I was referring to the water pump.
He did mention doing the belt in the 1st post.
The belt kit should include it.

While I'm thinking about it, how does the oil pump chain come off?
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
In one piece?

Take the crank pulley off. Take the front seal carrier off. Take the oil pump's pulley off.
 
Last edited:

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagen, 2021 Atlas,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
I didn't think it was that easy.
I guess getting the center bolt off and back on is the hardest part.
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2003; 2016 A3 e-tron
I had to use the ratchet all the way, and when I finally pulled it out there was aluminum shreds all over the threads, and a little pile of shavings around the hole on the bracket.
Getting back to the original post, those two things are related. I'm sure your bracket was probably in great shape before you started removing that "sticky" bolt.

If you un-weight the engine (support it from above or below0 so that there's no tension on those bolts, once you crack the bolts and turn them a couple of revolutions, they should come out pretty much with finger-power. If you're fighting one of the bolts, try lifting or lowering the engine a few millimetres to find that equilibrium where the tension is off the bolts.

And then same thing with tightening the new bolts - DO NOT use the bolts to align and pull the mounts together. Rather, get them lined up so you can thread the bolt most of the way in by hand on your extension/18mm socket.
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
Getting back to the original post, those two things are related. I'm sure your bracket was probably in great shape before you started removing that "sticky" bolt.

Not necessarily true. Corrosion can be a factor here just like it can be on the rear brake calipers.

Once the bolt is cracked it can have the bracket's aluminum fused to it on the bottom threads. Then as you drag that mess across the remaining threads in order to remove it it will take its toll on the rest of the thread. It happens often enough in my locale. Salty water can wick its way into the threads and galvanic corrosion between the steel bolts and the aluminum bracket takes care of the rest. That is with the engine fully supported so as not to load the bolts upon removal.
 

JB05

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
TDI
Golf,2005,anthracite blue
A level surface is crucial to smooth removal of the two vertical, 12mm bolts.
 

J_dude

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
Getting back to the original post, those two things are related. I'm sure your bracket was probably in great shape before you started removing that "sticky" bolt.
If you un-weight the engine (support it from above or below0 so that there's no tension on those bolts, once you crack the bolts and turn them a couple of revolutions, they should come out pretty much with finger-power. If you're fighting one of the bolts, try lifting or lowering the engine a few millimetres to find that equilibrium where the tension is off the bolts.
And then same thing with tightening the new bolts - DO NOT use the bolts to align and pull the mounts together. Rather, get them lined up so you can thread the bolt most of the way in by hand on your extension/18mm socket.
Good info here thanks! However I’m fairly certain it was stripped by the last person to r/r the bracket as when I removed the bracket I jacked up the engine slightly and then unbolted the mount from the frame side first, so there was zero tension/pressure on the engine-mount-to-engine-bracket union in either direction, just the weight of the mount itself I guess, which being aluminum isn’t much anyway.
I did locate a wrecker that said they had a bracket and would sell it for $50 but when my buddy got there it was “gone” apparently so whatever, I guess I will be heli-coiling this one. Unless I miraculously find another one lol
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2003; 2016 A3 e-tron
Slightly related: On the BEW, the Bentley manual states that, on those same big M12x1.5 bolts that go into the mount bracket, the torque spec is 74ft.lbs (100Nm) - which is the same as the transmission mount over on the other side.

Anyone know why the change on those bolts on the timing belt side?

(Same with harmonic balancer bolts, btw - ALH is 18ft.lbs.; BEW is 7 (or similar small number)ft.lb. plus 90°. That one I'm guessing - because we all use loctite on them for the ALH - they were rattling loose at the low 18ft.lbs. dry.
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
(Same with harmonic balancer bolts, btw - ALH is 18ft.lbs.; BEW is 7 (or similar small number)ft.lb. plus 90°. That one I'm guessing - because we all use loctite on them for the ALH - they were rattling loose at the low 18ft.lbs. dry.

I've never used Loctite on the HB bolts for either ALH or BEW, or any VW engine. Never lost one on how many cars that I've worked on. It is the proper torque for the application. VW does not Locktite them. The good part about it is that you won't strip the heads when you try to remove them 100K miles later!

People get nuts with Loctite as if, what worked for the factory magically won't work in service applications. Losing the harmonic balancer is not a chronic problem. If they came loose them perhaps the bolts were over-torqued once and then reused and not torqued properly again. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
Bentley manuals are notoriously wrong sometimes with torque figures. SOmetimes you have to use common sense. On the AHU, Bentley spec'd 30lb-ft for the timing belt tensioner nut where, if torqued that far, will break the aluminum tensioner base. (Yup, did it once upon a time having full faith in the Bentley)

Mistakes are made and sometimes are corrected but sometimes not.
 
Last edited:

J_dude

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
Ok so I been a little distracted with life lately and the car has been sitting unattended in the shop in little pieces lol but I just went out and pulled the front seal housing off and the tensioner and I can’t get the pump sprocket off, how much torque is on that bolt? I’m just using my 3/8 drive ratchet cuz that’s what my torx bits are, do I just need to really reef on it? I don’t have a 3/8 to 1/2 adapter so I might just have to grab a piece of pipe to get some more leverage
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Wait.... wut?

Pump sprocket? IP Pump? There are three bolts around the circumference of the big center one. DO NOT REMOVE THE CENTER BOLT! Take the other three out and the sprocket will come off, leaving the hub exactly where it is.

IF YOU MOVE THAT HUB ON THE TAPER GETTING IT BACK IN THE CORRECT LOCATION IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT SPECIAL TOOLS; IT IS A TAPER FIT AND IS **NOT** KEYED.
 
Top