Engine damage after Turbo upgrade - time to move on?

[northwestnina]

OK. Sad story. Less than a year after upgrading my turbocharger (July 2017), and 3 weeks after doing my timing belt... my TDI has possibly bit the dust (I'm still crossing my fingers but I'd like to mentally prepare myself and know what questions to ask on Monday). They think there is engine damage of some kind. Something about seals and pistons and pressure. They tried an additive to flush out potential carbon buildup, hoping that was the problem, but no change. They're holding it over the weekend to try another additive but it's not looking good.

It was driving mostly fine post turbocharger death last year, so that's also kind of annoying. I was actually taking it in this week to replace a booster and master cylinder because my brake pedal was farting at me and something about a seal corroding (it was also tripping off my brake warning every few months). But I also had a poof of white smoke come out 1.5 weeks ago, which was another reason I brought it in. It's been periodic since then, not constant, but definitely worse after driving on the freeway for the first time in months this weekend.

I'm not a super expert, but I had some fun with an upgraded turbo and I love my Jetta very much... but maybe I have some regrets? Oh, and my car is an automatic.

My issue is, I hate every other car in the universe and I'm half tempted to learn how to drive a stick just to go buy a very similar car 108 miles away, hahaha. Help. Save me from bad decisions.

Should I consider selling it for parts? Pro-tips on next moves are welcome.

I can't explain how stuff works, but I know a lot of specifics about my car (I think) so I should be able to answer questions. I also have every receipt for everything I've done since I bought in in September 2012.

Biggest gut punch is dropping nearly $3k last year upgrading the turbo, finally getting a skid plate this winter, and dropping $1375 on the timing belt JUST THREE WEEKS AGO. So much sad face. I am not in a position to spend more than $1000 right now, so ouch ouch ouch, help?

 

[UhOh]

You botched the TB? (how did you drop $1,375 on the TB? if it was a shop that did it then I'd hold them accountable; that's in insane amount of money just for a TB job)

Might be salvageable merely with head work. Really need to dig in to find out: first would be to look in the TB path; then look under the valve cover. Of course, don't go trying to start the thing!

The 01m trans kind of makes this less than desirable for plunking much money in to. Of course, for roughly $1k you can rectify that (5spd transplant).

Basing a decision on economics requires proper assessment of costs. You've given folks nothing to go by (yet).

 

[Tdijarhead]

So after reading your story I understand you are getting a puff of smoke occasionally other than that I’m not sure what your car is doing or what you think may have caused this.

Running an additive through one of these diesels is not a great idea. Verifying that the timing belt still lines up at TDC and pulling the turbo hose to check the compressor wheel for play would be more appropriate in trying to troubleshoot whatever issues you’re having.
Besides a puff of smoke now and then what else is going on?

It’s never a bad idea to learn how to drive a stick, on the BEW for instance you’ll gain 5-10 mpg’s. Parting out an auto with a bad engine means you can sell the interior parts if they’re in good shape, and maybe get a couple hundred for the transmission if someone wants to chance it. Parting out a stick with a bad engine means you can get about $800 or so for the transmission and the swap parts that go with it.

Is this the same shop that did your timing belt? Do they know these engines? If they don’t work on them regularly I would find someone who does and take your car to them for a proper diagnosis. Running stuff through the engine will diagnose nothing.

 

[northwestnina]

They didn't think the timing belt has anything to do with it. I'm not doing ANYTHING to the car, the autoshop is. They are supposed TDI experts. The guy mentioned fearing that upgrading my turbocharger last year is what damaged the engine. I don't really understand what's going on, and I most certainly wasn't expecting to hear today that there's engine damage (with an implied "you're going to need a new car" tone).

I've put a ridiculous amount of money into this car over the last few years... which on the one hand, makes me want to see my investment through to the end... on the other hand I am broke as a joke and can't afford the moneypit any longer.

I'm a single lady, and I am sure everyone screws me over and overcharges me, as well.

 

[KLXD]

So the occasional puff of smoke and brake booster are the only reasons it's in the shop?

I don't see an upgraded TC damaging anything and causing puffs of smoke. Which TC was installed? Won't mean anything to me but will help other guys here.

How often do you floor it getting on the freeway? Should do it often to keep oil buildup out of the intake system. That may be the source of the smoke.

Get a written diagnosis/estimate and post it here before spending any more money.

 

[northwestnina]

Here is the last estimate for the job I took it in for (yay, at least I didn't spend another $945 on it this week?) and the last three bills from the autoshop - they do a pretty good job of describing what's been going on.

https://www.northwestnina.com/jetta

The smoke that I saw over the last week was nothing like the smoke I saw after the turbo upgrade. Last year when it happened it was constant and only got worse. This time it's just a puff here and there when I accelerate around town which is 99% of my driving. After driving on the freeway for and hour last weekend, it was a constant flow of smoke idling in a parking lot afterwards though... then back to only a puff here and there before I brought it in Wednesday (for an appointment I scheduled 2 weeks ago for the brake thing).

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I'm struggling to add up what you've experienced and the engine damage diagnosis. Maybe a little more information would help.

• How many miles on the car?
• What "upgrade" turbo did you install?
• Is the car tuned?
• Any fault codes?
• What other symptoms cause you to think there's engine damage?

There are lots of things that can cause poor running in these engines. Some are minor, like a boost or vacuum leak, some are more serious, like camshaft wear. But overall the BEW engine is pretty robust. It would take a lot of effort to damage it, although a botched timing belt service could do it.

 

[northwestnina]

About 184,000 miles right now. No codes.

I think we posted at the same time but the link in my above post has pictures detailing the turbo upgrade and timing belt jobs. It's tuned, they worked with Kerma.

They are the ones that think there is engine damage (I thought I was just fixing frog farts and maybe getting a valve cover replaced under warranty per the note on the last bill for the timing belt job). They mentioned seals around the pistons becoming unseated under certain pressure. They said the turbo looks good.

I can't get my images to work in here, lol, but I made a webpage for it real quick: https://www.northwestnina.com/jetta

 

[northwestnina]

And I diligently change my oil every 10k with an oil extractor. Pentosin HP2. I fix stuff like side mirrors and add iPhone plugs to my radio on my own, but anything more advanced than an oil change... I go to the autoshop. Maybe not the best route as a TDI owner to not learn more, heh.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

First, be prepared to get flamed for the labor charges on those invoices. I'll reserve comment, as others are sure to bring it up.

"Seals around the pistons" would be the rings, I imagine. If you have blowby from failing rings you'd see blue smoke on startup, most likely, and have some significant oil consumption, like a liter in 1000-2000 miles. It could also pressurize under the valve cover and cause that to leak, along with plugging the crankcase vent. So perhaps something is going on.

However, smoke at idle could be overboost. A Kerma 150 HP tune shouldn't be running a huge amount of fuel or boost, certainly not enough to cause catastrophic engine damage. A compression and leak-down test might tell you more.

 

[northwestnina]

Lol, I get charged a lot no matter where I go... I've just learned to accept that. I really like the folks at my autoshop though - they genuinely love my car and TDIs in general etc. For a few years I went to a cheaper place but they really didn't know what they were doing with a TDI. FWIW I live in the PNW (about an hour south of Seattle) and the cost of living is pretty high here.

They mentioned blowby, and were trying additives (with an oil change) to try to reseat the pistons, I believe. Definitely something going on. It doesn't smoke at idle when I'm driving in town. I'm sure they're trying their best to figure it out and make sure they didn't cause it right now.

I'm just at a "if this is really bad it might be time to lease a car for a bit a take a break from maintenance for 3 years" breaking point. It's obviously not financially wise of me to keep dropping a couple thousand on my car here and there. It was solid for the first few years with no major maintenance and I LOVE driving it, especially with an upgraded turbo. I'm borrowing a company car right now and this Scion feels sooooo wrong. Like a weenie little boxy lawnmower.

 

[Genesis]

If you got rings that are stuck or failing at that mileage no additive is going to do anything except waste both money and time. You won't fix mechanical problems like that with additives; at best you'll mask it for a little while and at worst you'll cause more problems.

 

[northwestnina]

On the upside they have assured me I won't be charged for the days of diagnosing the issue.

 

[Tdijarhead]

Probably those guys have already checked but if there is a gap where my finger is pointing then your car will have lower power and smoke a little depending on the size of the gap.

This connection is known to become loose after a few thousands of miles. On mine you can see what’s known as a dog collar, Kerma has them. The collar keeps that hose from popping out under boost (acceleration). Usually it doesn’t come all the way out it just sits at an odd angle and allows for a boost leak.

 

[northwestnina]

Thanks! I'll ask about that on Monday for sure.

 

[JB05]

The small hose on the bottom of the intercooler can also come loose and cause a boost leak; with lots of black smoke. The hose in the pic above and the one I mention both have barbs that wear down.

 

[northwestnina]

Ooof, I think I'm going to sell it and move on after much deliberation with family and friends. I should wait until I get it back from the autoshop and have more info before I post a FS thread over in the buy and sell area, I reckon.

Just thought I'd update those coming back to this thread or seeing it now, because the page I created earlier on my website has changed into an ad with the full history now, haha!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

If you want to move on you should. But from what you've posted I doubt there's anything serious wrong with the car. Probably doesn't need the brake booster either. In fact, both of the issues you're experiencing could be caused by a vacuum leak.

It's common for shops to mis-diagnose issues in these cars, recommending expensive repairs they don't need. It isn't necessarily greed or malice on their part (although sometimes it is), it's often because they don't know how to figure out what's wrong.

At any rate, I suspect someone is going to get a good deal on your car.

 

[northwestnina]

Hey, if it turns out I can drive it another 120k, I totally will. At least I have all the history in one place now. Haha, I'm NOT going to add up those expenses though.

I'm kinda terrible with money and it's been rough this last year doing $4500+ in repairs/upgrades on credit cards. If I do sell it, I want it to be loved and go to a good home, haha. I love it a lot but it feels like a money pit right now.

 

[flee]

One thing that you need is to find a guru.
Have you checked the sticky under TDI 101 for mechanics?

 

[Genesis]

Seconded -- you need someone who knows how to diagnose these cars and put only the parts and labor into it that fix something that's actually broken.

 

[OlyTDI]

Nina -- I live in Oly as well and I can tell you with some certainty that there are no TDI mechanics nearby to whom I'd entrust my car. I know that doesn't help right now but hopefully what will help is knowing where the gurus are. There are three, none of whom are close:

Justin (Oldpoopie on this forum) in Portland,
Matthew at Zahntech in Redmond, and
Fix-Um Haus in Portland.

I wouldn't hesitate to tow a vehicle to any of them in that you'd still come out ahead and have someone who knows these inside and out working on them. I've worked with Justin and Matthew both numerous times and they are first rate TDI-specific experts.

If you decide to keep your TDI and you get over this current challenge, feel free to contact me with regard to learning some of the idiosyncrasies and oddities of the BEW TDIs. I have the same engine in my Golf. I also have a lift and a shop and could arrange a time to help you learn more about the basics of your car.

I think you can be successful with TDIs. It's just that they need specific kinds of TLC, preventive maintenance, and it's best to do things pro-actively rather than re-actively to the extent possible.

Keep us informed and good luck!

 

[northwestnina]

Haha, that's excellent to know, OlyTDI! Thank you!

(And as far as I know, it doesn't need to be towed, it was driving just fine when I dropped it off Wednesday!)

 

[ConvergenceFreak]

and the thread died...

Does anyone know whatever happened to Nina's Jetta?

That was a really nice offer from OlyTDI too!

 

[OlyTDI]

I was wondering that too. I have since moved (locally) and do not yet have a shop up and running at the new place so that offer's off the table!


My guess is that she bailed on the vehicle.

 

[JB05]

Her last activity was 7/12/18.