Emusifier or Demulsifier

03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
That test is iffy.. What did they compare it against an emulsifer or demulsifer? Also appears they used a much higher % of additive than what's suggested.

Would be curious as to what happens after a few hours and not a few seconds after a controlled video test.
 

Powder Hound

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 25, 1999
Location
Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
TDI
'00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
I've never seen that much water in my fuel, never experienced any performance characteristics that would lead me to believe I have a water in fuel problem.

This might be an additive worth investigating if I had large tankage sitting around for long periods of time, such as perhaps a farm, or if I was trying to use residual heating oil as fuel.

But in my usage, this additive (fppf) is not for me. For the same reason (i.e. I don't see the need) I haven't gotten an anthrax vaccination nor am I building a fall out shelter.

Maybe I'll rethink this situation when I start to hear about the hundreds on this site complaining about their TDIs dying and finding their fuel tanks stuffed with water. Until then, I will continue to live on the wild side. Not only that, but I run with scissors. :p

Cheers,

PH
 

KB3MMX

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Location
Shippensburg, Pennsylvania
TDI
98 Jetta
KB3MMX, great info. You're not going to convince anyone that emulsifing water is a bad thing.

I know I don't want any water ran through my fuel system.

Do you really want to try and force this to mix with your fuel and send it through your fuel system?


Amen !


Also if emulsified water was ok, no diesel fuel system would have a water separator that removes emulsified and demulsified water....:D






Here's some great info on how water destroys CR Diesel injection system parts(WITH PICTURES):
http://www.dieselsite.com/dieselsite2011-20012ford67lfuelfilterwaterseparator.aspx


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So the demulsifer causes the water to separate out of the fuel and then be pumped throughout the system. Wouldn't it be better to emulsify those molecules instead of pumping around larger amounts of water?
I guess my concern is what happens to this water with the demulsifer? Seams like with either product the water gets pumped around and burned up.
I know larger machines have a better oil water separator and then it would be best to use a demulsifer.
I've pulled up to a quart of water off of a 1800 gal tanker after recirculating it. Of course that was South American fuels.


>> No.
The purpose of the water separator is to remove water before it gets to the fuel system internals. Purposely helping water get into the internals of the injection system by using emulsifiers defeats the protection of a water separator.






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I got similar sediments in my diesel fuel canister when I used Opti-Lube Summer blend (has a demulsifier). I do not remember getting said sediments when I was using Schaeffer DT-2000 (has an emlusifier).

As for water going through the injectors. I do recall that a lot of diesel cars use water injection when going for higher output. If it works for these cars, why would it do harm for ours?

>> Actually, "Water Injection" systems use a different delivery means, consisting of water compatible components and the water is injected into the intake manifold.

The Diesel Injection system is not used.



.
 
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03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
^ assuming our fuel filter / water separator has a 100% single pass water removal ability.... And that no water molecules get pass the filter. Which I don't think we have.
 

bloc

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI
Does anyone know if the CJAA-type CR fuel filter even removes water? There is definitely no drain.. and apparently nothing fancy going in with the internals.. just dump the fuel/water into the top, let it pass through the filter element, and suck it back out the top..
 

Scoutx

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Location
Virginia
TDI
2012 Jetta (6MT) - 1000 Mile Club (retired)___ 2015 Jetta SEL (6MT)
The purpose of an emulsifier is to keep water from sticking around in the low points of the fuel system and causing rust. No water separator is 100% effective and if there is water in the fuel, then some amount of it will end up in the fuel system on the other side of the separator/filter. If ends up sitting in a low point...it's going to cause rust. An emulsifier insures that the water continues it's movement into the cylinder and out of your fuel system entirely. No water left in the fuel system...no rust...no problem.

Make your own choice.
 

shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Location
Canton, Ohio
TDI
1999 A4 Jetta
All CAT absolute filters remove -or- absorb water AFAIK but not all have a drain fitting. CAT makes excellent fuel filters and also has a lot of info on water and other contaminant damage in fuel systems, check it out sometime.
I know this thread is ooooolllld, but can you provide an authoritative source for the claim that all CAT filters separate water? I cannot find anything on the CAT website about it and don't trust hearsay. The only thing I can find related is the following from a CAT dealer.
The 1R-0749 is only used as a secondary fuel filter. It will not plug from water although it would simply allow water to pass through it and go through the fuel system, this is very harmful to the fuel system. I would find a fuel filter supplier that could supply you with water separator fuel filter all in one combination.
regards
Wes Johnson
Technical Services Manager
Wagner Equipment Company
18000 Smith Road
Aurora Co 80011
Office 303-739-3143
Cell 720-383-2710
Fax 303-739-3192
----- Forwarded by Wes Johnson/WAGNER on 09/08/2011 11:55 AM -----
 
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TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
TDI
2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red; 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White
I've been using the 1R-0750 Cat filters for about 12 years, and I can tell you they DO NOT separate water from fuel.

Sometimes I use a fuel additive, but not always. When I do, it contains an emulsifying agent -- in other words, it does not separate water from fuel.
 

Riflesmith

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 1999
Location
Lovell, WY
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI 6M, 2015 Golf TDI 6A
Additive used: Opti-Lube(Xl, XPD, Summer Plus, as seasons change) +FPPF Fuel Power

Demulsifier or Emulsifier: Opti-Lube - Demulsifier, FPPF - Emulsifier

Vehicle engine types: ALH and CR

Reasoning: Opti-Lube primarily for improved lubricity. FPPF for water dispersion. FPPF overrides the demulsifier in the Opti-Lube.

Been running this way since Optilube became available. Many trouble-free miles.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
2014 Common Rail, Passat TDI
Type of injector: Solenoid

Cause of failure: Water that was not suspended in the system.
Internal parts all showed extreme areas or RUST and CORROSION due to free water forming and circulating in the fuel system. The areas that showed the most damage are areas inside the injector where fuel does not freely circulate. This prevents water which forms to remain for long periods of time OR these ares areas are where water can boil off and cause steam pitting which is also suspected as a cause of the failure.

Im still working to see if these injectors can be restored and the extent of the parts required to return to service, if at all.

Solution: Regular dosing of Power Service (White Bottle)

Cost of repair $3500-$4000

 

DPM

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 16, 2001
Location
Newtownards, N. Ireland
TDI
2019 Rav4 AWD Hybrid, Citroen C4 BlueHDI
I'm more interested in how come there was so much free water in the tank and how it managed to get through the filter- don't current filters have a hydrophobic/ coalescing coating?
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
$3500-4000!! What else failed besides an injector?
Story is....

Owner filled car up and drove 40 miles(?) and the engine quit.

This engine has been digesting water laden fuel for a VERY long time.

Remember water forms AFTER you shut the engine off and the fuel cools...as the fuel cools, water precipitates and wherever that water falls out of suspension is where the damage occurs.

Regular dosing with Power Service will prevent this...

And no, the customer never used any additives.

Injectors, pump, rail, filters.... Basically anything that can rust, did.

I've been running Power Service in my car since day one, maybe on my next service I'll pull the injectors and see how things are looking.

I'm still working on this set to see if the are salvageable, but I found some damaged DLC coatings leading me to believe those parts will be hard to source despite the ease in which they can be replaced and adjusted for.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Don't waste your time, those can't remove suspended water from the fuel.

The last thing you want is any free water forming, just use some Power Service with every tank and the problems cease to be an issue.

You are better off using a 2 micron filter only, and some Power Service for best fuel system life.

These are issues that you simply can't filter your way out of...
 

boertje

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2002
Location
Coeur d'Alene, ID
TDI
'01, '01, '03, ‘06 - TDIs all.
Just had to replace a set of pp764 that with the 100k cleaning/recalibration were not salvageable due to some fine grit that made its way past the stock fuel filter. Also signs of water. Reinstalled my cat 1r-0750 filter to hopefully prevent this issue in the future. Also went back to regular dosing of white bottle power service as per DBW.
 

cp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Location
usa
TDI
2006 TDI Beetle
Rusted injection system...in a two year old car?

This car didn't fail from not using snake oil. If it had, there would be thousands just like it.

It may have failed FROM using snake oil...the kind that allows water to "harmlessly" pass through the system.
 
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