tobianogreg
Veteran Member
The question at this point: can we believe VW? 23O6 was supposedly a "fix".
Emissions Fix Ready (Allegedly)
- Thread starter Mike_04GolfTDI
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jims2321
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If this was truly a fix, they would of implemented it in Europe first with it lower standards and broader base of vehicle ages/mileage/usage. No, I going to have to call BS on this alleged fix. A larger catalytic converter would not address the issue since GEN 1 cars are a separate LNT, DPF and H2S catalytic converter.
As noted here the two methods for reduction of NOx in Diesel engines since 2010 are LNT and SCR system.
Reduction in NOx emissions from compression-ignition engines has previously been addressed by the addition of exhaust gas to incoming air charge, known as exhaust gas recirculation (EGR). In 2010, most light-duty diesel manufacturers in the U.S. added catalytic systems to their vehicles to meet new federal emissions requirements. There are two techniques that have been developed for the catalytic reduction of NOx emissions under lean exhaust conditions – selective catalytic reduction (SCR) and the lean NOx trap or NOx adsorber. Instead of precious metal-containing NOx adsorbers, most manufacturers selected base-metal SCR systems that use a reagent such as ammonia to reduce the NOx into nitrogen. Ammonia is supplied to the catalyst system by the injection of urea into the exhaust, which then undergoes thermal decomposition and hydrolysis into ammonia. One trademark product of urea solution, also referred to as Diesel Emission Fluid (DEF), is AdBlue.
As noted here the two methods for reduction of NOx in Diesel engines since 2010 are LNT and SCR system.
Reduction in NOx emissions from compression-ignition engines has previously been addressed by the addition of exhaust gas to incoming air charge, known as exhaust gas recirculation (EGR). In 2010, most light-duty diesel manufacturers in the U.S. added catalytic systems to their vehicles to meet new federal emissions requirements. There are two techniques that have been developed for the catalytic reduction of NOx emissions under lean exhaust conditions – selective catalytic reduction (SCR) and the lean NOx trap or NOx adsorber. Instead of precious metal-containing NOx adsorbers, most manufacturers selected base-metal SCR systems that use a reagent such as ammonia to reduce the NOx into nitrogen. Ammonia is supplied to the catalyst system by the injection of urea into the exhaust, which then undergoes thermal decomposition and hydrolysis into ammonia. One trademark product of urea solution, also referred to as Diesel Emission Fluid (DEF), is AdBlue.
jims2321
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Interesting read on Diesel catalyst technology for reducing emissions, and actually understandable and fairly recently updated.
https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/cat_diesel.php#nox
https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/cat_diesel.php#nox
tobianogreg
Veteran Member
As far as the EU goes, VW didn't have to do much really. A plastic "flow straightener"? I haven't followed the situation there.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Why would VW perform a more extensive fix than necessary in Europe? Their flow straightener, as silly as it seems, did the job. Why do more?
rac
Veteran Member
The new fix sounds too good to be true. But if it is true, VW was foolish for not finding a way to roll this out before the cheat was discovered.
jims2321
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The flow fix was for the 1.6L engines, and it did not work.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...sumer-group-claims-dieselgate-fix-ineffective
So no, it would of been tested there, if for no other reason then the larger base of cars/conditions and lower standards.
dubStrom
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faith, or hope, or just I want my wagon!
Yes, it is either/or. You choose and commit. Take the restitution, OR sell it back. No combination is allowed.
My JSW keeps reminding me that the FE and HP are not the only reason I bought it. And if the fix is "discernable", I can always go aftermarket.
I was at a Ram dealer looking at an ecodiesel the other day, and found myself activating the windows all down by remote feature for a curious customer, who told me he loves the Passat. He actually said "Wow."
No other car is as accomodating. It's in the 90s and I don't need the seat heaters, but needed to clean the windshield and activated the wipers up function. Nice. And the air conditionaer and air flow control in the car is better than most.
Flattened the cargo area to take a desk and table to an apartment today... space.
Every time I think about this wagon, I realize that I want it, even with "no discernable difference".
As I said, there's always aftermarket.
Yes, it is either/or. You choose and commit. Take the restitution, OR sell it back. No combination is allowed.
My JSW keeps reminding me that the FE and HP are not the only reason I bought it. And if the fix is "discernable", I can always go aftermarket.
I was at a Ram dealer looking at an ecodiesel the other day, and found myself activating the windows all down by remote feature for a curious customer, who told me he loves the Passat. He actually said "Wow."
No other car is as accomodating. It's in the 90s and I don't need the seat heaters, but needed to clean the windshield and activated the wipers up function. Nice. And the air conditionaer and air flow control in the car is better than most.
Flattened the cargo area to take a desk and table to an apartment today... space.
Every time I think about this wagon, I realize that I want it, even with "no discernable difference".
As I said, there's always aftermarket.
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jims2321
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dub,
Worse case scenerio, you wait for the fix, and it impacts, take your compensation money go aftermarket to get back better then new performance. On top of that you have your certificate that your car was "fixed" so no concerns about the gov't complaining.
The absolute worse case, the fix so badly screws up your car, that its not modible by tuners. Then you join the follow on CAS against VW for the screwed up fix.
Worse case scenerio, you wait for the fix, and it impacts, take your compensation money go aftermarket to get back better then new performance. On top of that you have your certificate that your car was "fixed" so no concerns about the gov't complaining.
The absolute worse case, the fix so badly screws up your car, that its not modible by tuners. Then you join the follow on CAS against VW for the screwed up fix.
dubStrom
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Your first scenario seems realistic. But if the performance/FE change is drastic, really anything should be reversible.
I am thinking that they'll have to put a urea tank in one of those spots they considered before but didn't. There's a little space behind the wheel wells in the back where you access the rear taillight assembly, eight side. I got in there to install a powered pulse modulation type trailer hitch wiring setup, so that has me a bit worried. I hope they don't inadvertently disable that
I'll talk to them before they pile into it. I'm sure they'll try not to disturb the trailer wiring if possible.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
No urea in Gen 1 car if the current proposed fix is accepted.
jims2321
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Honestly, I do not see how anything but an SCR system addition will begin to get the Gen 1 close to the relax standards. Understand the relax standard only allows what 3x the current limit, and we were 40x the limit. So even if VW can eliminate say 85% of the current output with this alleged catalytic converter fix, we are still 4x to 6x over the limit and 1.5x to 2x over the relaxed limit.
And if the fixes they did in Europe on their 1.2L, 1.6L and 2L engines are any indication, we can expect the NOx to actually get worse.
No, I see VW dragging this whole fix fiasco out, so they can spread the buyback cost over the next 2 years to lower the impact to their bottom line.
And if the fixes they did in Europe on their 1.2L, 1.6L and 2L engines are any indication, we can expect the NOx to actually get worse.
No, I see VW dragging this whole fix fiasco out, so they can spread the buyback cost over the next 2 years to lower the impact to their bottom line.
gearheadgrrrl
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The "more of the same" fix for the gen 1 cars sounds like the same kind of stupid strategy Navistar is trying to get their 2010 and newer truck engines legal- They do a reflash and lose some power, and the MPG is still awful.
