Emissions Fix Ready (Allegedly)

Mike_04GolfTDI

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Dealers say Volkswagen has emissions-cheating fixes ready

http://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/dealers-say-volkswagen-has-emissions-cheating-fixes-ready-1.2998417

This sounds like good news to me. They're saying the fix may make no difference to performance or fuel consumption.

DETROIT -- Volkswagen's plan to fix most of its 2-litre diesel engines that cheat on emissions tests includes a computer software update and a larger catalytic converter to trap harmful nitrogen oxide, according to two dealers who were briefed by executives on the matter.

Limited details of the plan were made public last week at a regional dealer meeting in Newark, New Jersey, by Volkswagen of America Chief Operating Officer Mark McNabb, said the dealers, who asked not to be identified because the plan hasn't been made public.

One dealer said the group was told that early testing of a small sample of repaired cars showed that the fix made "no discernable difference" in the cars' mileage, horsepower or torque. Both dealers said they were told that more testing was needed and that the plans still had to be approved by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the California Air Resources Board.

If the fixes don't hurt performance and mileage, that could be a big boost for Volkswagen, which last month agreed to spend up to $15.3 billion to settle consumer lawsuits and government allegations that its diesels cheated on U.S. emissions tests. The settlement included up to $10 billion that would go to over 475,000 owners of 2-litre VW or Audi diesels, giving them the choice of selling the cars back at the pre-scandal value or getting them fixed. A fix that is satisfactory to owners would entice more of them to go for repairs, saving VW money. The $10 billion figure is the worst-case scenario for the company and includes all owners taking the buybacks. Car owners also would get payments of $5,100 to $10,000.

Volkswagen has acknowledged that the cars were programmed to turn on emissions controls during government lab tests and turn them off while on the road. Investigators determined that the cars emitted more than 40 times the legal limit of nitrogen oxide, which can cause respiratory problems in humans. The company got away with the scheme for seven years until independent researchers reported it to the EPA.

Even with the fixes, the VWs won't fully comply with clean air laws because the cars were built to defeat the tests. The fixes must cut emissions by at least 80 per cent, and VW must pay to mitigate any excess pollution.

At the time the settlement was announced, no fix was available, but the dealers said that VW appeared close to submitting one.
Neither the EPA nor Volkswagen would comment on details repair proposals. "Any remedies that are being discussed still need to be approved," VW spokeswoman Jeannine Ginivan said.

Both dealers said the fix was revealed by McNabb reluctantly under questioning from Northeast region dealers toward the end of a four-hour meeting on July 15. The meeting was held to discuss how VW would implement the buyback and repair plan and included plans to have company representatives handle paperwork.
The news gave hope to the dealers, who have had to make do with a lack of new vehicles and have seen U.S. sales decline since VW admitted cheating on the tests in September of last year. So far this year, VW brand sales are down nearly 15 per cent even though the overall market has grown 1.5 per cent.
One of the dealers said the so-called "Generation 1" diesels -- about 325,000 VW Jettas, Golfs, Passats and Beetles from the 2009 to 2014 model years -- would get new software and bigger catalytic converters in January or February of next year. About 90,000 "Generation 2" Passats already have sufficient emissions systems and would get only a software update early next year. Another 67,000 "Generation 3" 2015 models would get software in October and would get additional hardware a year later, the dealer said.

Getting the fixes through the EPA and California regulators could still be a problem. The agencies in January rejected a fix for the 2-litre engines, and last week they turned down a plan to fix about 85,000 vehicles with 3-litre diesels that also cheat on emissions tests.

Alan Brown, general manager of a VW dealer in Lewisville, Texas, and chairman of the company's National Dealer Advisory Council, said regional meetings with dealers around the country have caused most to be optimistic that better times are ahead. Details of how the cars would be fixed weren't discussed at the meeting he attended this week, he said. But if they don't affect mileage or performance "We'd celebrate," he said.

Dealers also were told that they'd be reimbursed by VW for sales losses due to the scandal, and that new vehicles are coming. A small SUV built in Tennessee is due early next year, and later in the year VW plans an all-wheel-drive wagon to compete with the hot-selling Subaru Outback.
 
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wbclassics

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http://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/dealers-say-volkswagen-has-emissions-cheating-fixes-ready-1.2998417

This sounds like good news to me. They're saying the fix may make no difference to performance or fuel consumption.
VW Sham recall #23O6 was also supposed to not impact fuel economy. I noticed roughly a 10% decrease in city fuel driving fuel economy, even worse when it was colder. Hwy driving remained pretty much the same.

NY State's lawsuit against VW contains text that states that recall 23O6 did have a negative impact on fuel economy and VW knew that it would.

Why would you believe anything VW says?
 

bring

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"no discernible difference"

tell us the resulting hp, torque, and mileage - and spare us the wordsmithing
 

JSWTDI09

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"no discernible difference"

tell us the resulting hp, torque, and mileage - and spare us the wordsmithing
They really can't tell us anything until after the proposed "fixes" are approved by the EPA and CARB. All of the "wordsmithing" is just guesses (perhaps occasionally educated guesses). We can't know anything until everything is decided. When any fixes are approved and people start actually getting the "fix" installed - then we will begin to see what those fixes do to our cars. Until then we are just wasting our time and our breath.

Have Fun!

Don
 

CSR Penfab

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Anyone who believes a word VW says at this point is not in their right mind. Likely this "fix" statement was total bullsh*t to get the dealers off their backs. No mention of MTBF, so yes, perhaps it works... For the first 20k miles.....
 

GetMore

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I find it interesting that Gen II engines only need software, but Gen III need software and hardware.

Oh, and hopefully the fixes show "no discernable differences" from non-2306 cars, since some people have noticed losses after having that recall done.
 

scooperhsd

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I find it interesting that Gen II engines only need software, but Gen III need software and hardware.

Oh, and hopefully the fixes show "no discernable differences" from non-2306 cars, since some people have noticed losses after having that recall done.

The "hardware" on the GEN 3 has nothing to do with "lowering the NOx output" - it has to do with making sure DEF is put in its tank and/or that the treatment is actually keeping the NOx below limits before it goes out the tailpipe.
 

solman1

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If the fix was so simple as installing a bigger cat and a software tweak they would never have done the cheat in the first place.
I doubt that such an easy fix with no detriment to mileage and performance is at hand.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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VW has also negotiated a higher NOx emissions level for Gen 1 cars in operation. It's not clear that these cars could be compliant without that changed target.
 

BuyMeBackSoon

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Even if they could fix it, I would still be left with a potential exploding airbag device with deathly implications. If that was fixed I would possibly keep the car.
 

tobianogreg

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VW has also negotiated a higher NOx emissions level for Gen 1 cars in operation. It's not clear that these cars could be compliant without that changed target.
And will therefore be forever tainted as "dirty diesels" among that segment of society who cares about emissions. Potentially not good for resale values.
 

grawk

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And will therefore be forever tainted as "dirty diesels" among that segment of society who cares about emissions. Potentially not good for resale values.
while continuing to use less fuel and emit less CO2 than any gas powered vehicle.

Not even considering the $5100+ you get to offset the loss in resale value.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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And will therefore be forever tainted as "dirty diesels" among that segment of society who cares about emissions. Potentially not good for resale values.
I think there are plenty of people out there who see the regulations for what they are, and the real pollution footprint of diesels more objectively than CARB. I expect these cars will be less expensive because of this process, but I also predict a renaissance of diesel enthusiasts as an associated outcome.
 

S2000_guy

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Personally, I would never buy the first year's iteration of any car as a daily driver. The "fix" would change my '14 JSW TDI from the 6th year's iteration of the same basic engine into a "first year" (or maybe Beta test) edition. NO THANKS, VW/EPA/CARB.

It's a shame, because I like the car, it meets my needs, and there's nothing else I'm yearning for.
 

MichaelB

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Even if they could fix it, I would still be left with a potential exploding airbag device with deathly implications. If that was fixed I would possibly keep the car.
Well don't buy any other car with Takata air bags and there are many (not VW) if you are worried about that. You really are an uninformed person.
 
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turbobrick240

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Personally, I would never buy the first year's iteration of any car as a daily driver. The "fix" would change my '14 JSW TDI from the 6th year's iteration of the same basic engine into a "first year" (or maybe Beta test) edition. NO THANKS, VW/EPA/CARB.

It's a shame, because I like the car, it meets my needs, and there's nothing else I'm yearning for.

The simple solution would be to get the fix. Then, if you are unhappy with the results, you could either take the buyback or get an aftermarket tune.
 

jims2321

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The simple solution would be to get the fix. Then, if you are unhappy with the results, you could either take the buyback or get an aftermarket tune.
I believe its and either/or choice. Either the buyback or the fix.

Might be referring to this type of catalytic converter

http://www.walkerexhaust.com/suppor...onverter/evolution-of-the-catalytic-converter. But then again, if VW truly had a fix, shouldn't they tried it on the millions of vehicles in Europe first. To see if it would actually reduced emissions? I am calling this VW bull****, as mentioned above, its to placate the dealers, who are about to get royally screwed, when EPA/CARB and State attorneys get done with them.
 

turbobrick240

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I believe its and either/or choice. Either the buyback or the fix.

Might be referring to this type of catalytic c. verter

http://www.walkerexhaust.com/suppor...onverter/evolution-of-the-catalytic-converter. But then again, if VW truly had a fix, shouldn't they tried it on the millions of vehicles in Europe first. To see if it would actually reduced emissions? I am calling this VW bull****, as mentioned above, its to placate the dealers, who are about to get royally screwed, when EPA/CARB and State attorneys get done with them.
My understanding is there is a 30 day? grace period after the fix during which you can opt for the buyback (minus the fix money received ) if unpleased with the post fix performance(or if you just change your mind).
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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Anyone who believes a word VW says at this point is not in their right mind. Likely this "fix" statement was total bullsh*t to get the dealers off their backs. No mention of MTBF, so yes, perhaps it works... For the first 20k miles.....

^^^^^^^^^


Times 1,000:eek::rolleyes::mad::(:p
 

bring

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When any fixes are approved and people start actually getting the "fix" installed - then we will begin to see what those fixes do to our cars.

Anyone who agrees to a "blind" fix is out of their mind
 

tadawson

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I would counter that anyone who gets rid of a perfectly good car for which there are very few or no replacements is out of thier mind . . . . to me the fix and it's warranty seem like the far wiser choice . . .
 

BuyMeBackSoon

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Well don't buy any other car with Takata air bags and there are many (not VW) if you are worried about that. You really are an uninformed person.
The last sentence, did that make you feel good, a superior being perhaps? Not all airbags are propelled in the same way, Mr. Super informed. I have and will continue to check every potential vehicle purchase for that issue. Btw they have internet searches just for that purpose smart guy.
 

MichaelB

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The last sentence, did that make you feel good, a superior being perhaps? Not all airbags are propelled in the same way, Mr. Super informed. I have and will continue to check every potential vehicle purchase for that issue. Btw they have internet searches just for that purpose smart guy.
Yeah it did and I hope your last response made you feel like Mr super smart guy. Keep searching' the net pal Takata air bags are every where. Why you even made mention of them in the first place is beyond me. BuyMeBackSoon
 
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waltzconmigo

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Even if they could fix it, I would still be left with a potential exploding airbag device with deathly implications. If that was fixed I would possibly keep the car.
your join date and name lead me to believe you are nothing but a troll but i will engage non the less. VW should be caned for their actions but how do you put the responsibility of a suppliers default on an entity that purchased a good in good faith along with many others in the industry.
 

scooperhsd

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The Takata Airbags are NOT VW's fault - witness Honda recalls, probably some others that I can't think of at the moment - it's something like 26 MILLION vehicles / airbags that need replaced.
 

cyclopropene

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The Takata Airbags are NOT VW's fault - witness Honda recalls, probably some others that I can't think of at the moment - it's something like 26 MILLION vehicles / airbags that need replaced.
Certainly not any car manufacturer's fault, but in my experience Honda handled it better. When my wife's CRV was recalled they didn't have parts for a fix yet so Honda gave us a free replacement (a Jetta of all things) for fully three months until they could fix it. VW has not been so generous.
 
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