Eligible Owner But No Eligible Seller

kjclow

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I have the opportunity to purchase a 2012 Passat TDI SEL for about $12k (42K miles). My 2012 Jetta TDI premium sedan w/nav with 70Kmiles, owner restiton and buyback value is about $20k or $19,8xx.

If I let vw buyback the Jetta and I purchase the Passat today 7/6/16, do I still get 50% owner restitution on the passat??? Seems too good to be true...I can upgrade cars, cut down about 30k miles and pocket $8-10K.

I must be missing something? Thanks for any clarifications you may have. Pros and cons welcome.
I think you have to the registered owner as of June 28, 2016 to qualify.
 

Freeze Plug

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I think you have to the registered owner as of June 28, 2016 to qualify.
I don't think that is correct:

" “Eligible Owner” means the registered owner or owners of an Eligible Vehicle on
June 28, 2016, or the registered owner or owners who acquire an Eligible Vehicle after June 28,
2016, but before the end of the Claim Period "
 

youngman

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10% if purchased after Sept 2015? I don't get it

According to the calculator my buyback is $26,807, I bought May 2016, but if previous owner registers I only get 10% for buyback? ***
 

DanB36

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What doesn't seem clear to me in all of this is when does that money actually get to you?
For the Eligible Sellers? They have a 45-day window (or 6-week, don't remember which) to file their claims, and are paid the Eligible Seller Compensation irrespective of what the current owner does. I don't remember if the settlement documents specify how quickly they need to get paid, but it isn't contingent on when the current owners do anything. And it's a known amount, regardless of what the current owner does. Once that 45-day window closes, any amount in the Eligible Seller pool gets redistributed to post-9/15 buyers.

Eligible buyers won't have as much incentive to take the buy back if they get nada clean retail plus half of the settlement money.
Yeah, but we bought at depressed prices, so we (or at least some of us) still have a pretty strong incentive.
 

sierra3

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Folks...some of you are confusing the 'buyback' amounts with the restitution amounts.
The 'buyback' amount is NADA clean-trade in as of Sept 18th, 2015. No more, no less.
Whoever sells the vehicle back to VW (as long as they are a member of the class) is entitled to 100% of this. The restitution amounts then come into play. The full restitution per vehicle is 20% of the buyback amount + 2800 and change...with a minimum of $5100.00. If you bought your car after Sept 18, 2015 you are entitled to 50% of this amount. The seller is entitled to 50% of this as well...IF they register.
 

DanB36

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The 'buyback' amount is NADA clean-trade in as of Sept 18th, 2015. No more, no less.
No, it isn't. The buyback amount is what VW will pay to buy the car back. That is the NADA clean trade-in plus the applicable restitution.
If you bought your car after Sept 18, 2015 you are entitled to 50% of this amount. The seller is entitled to 50% of this as well...IF they register.
I know this is the case for those who bought between 9/18/15 and 6/28/16, but can you show from the documents that those who bought after 6/28/16 also have their restitution limited to 50%?
 

dmanb2b

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Thank you folks. So this seems like a deal I should pull the trigger on?

The Passat was traded in last week on a chevy. It is a 2012 TDI SEL, 42k miles, clean carfax and clear title with exception of failed emmissions test in 2014, which it passed a week later and all services performed at vw dealer with exception of 40k service which has not been completed. I know this is the "expensive" service, but I'm a DIY guy and have done all the maint on my Jetta, including the DSG and own a vagcom cable. Slight hestitation that last oil change was performed at 29k miles and car now has 42k, but doubt it's that bad. Lastly the car is Glacier Blue Metallic, which I not particulary a fan of, but for $12k...this car was a $33K car 4 years ago and barely broken in.

This seems like a no brainer to me and undertsand the risk of settlement changing. Appreciate any feedback...I may just put a deposit on the car to hold it.
 

sierra3

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DanB36...you might be talking about a case (yours?) where the owner of the car on Sept 18th, then sold it to someone AFTER June 28th...then they would NOT be an eligible seller. This seems like a loophole in the settlement...and VW makes out like a bandit, because there IS an eligible buyer (but they bought after Sept 18..so they only get 50%), and no eligible seller because the idiot lost his rights in the class by selling after June 28. VW will not have an eligible seller to sell to, thus saving themselves money.
 

DanB36

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DanB6....here is the 'long form'. Pretty clear from the table at #1 "What options do I have?" on page 8, and the notes on page 9. Vehicle Value is Note #2.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...nt Agreement/Exhibit 3 - Long Form Notice.pdf
Interesting. That doesn't seem consistent with the FTC consent decree, which appears to treat post-6/28 buyers the same as pre-9/18 buyers. I'll admit I'm not 100% certain of that interpretation, but the consent decree would be legally binding, while the notice merely advisory.
 

DanB36

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DanB36...you might be talking about a case (yours?) where the owner of the car on Sept 18th, then sold it to someone AFTER June 28th...then they would NOT be an eligible seller. This seems like a loophole in the settlement...and VW makes out like a bandit, because there IS an eligible buyer (but they bought after Sept 18..so they only get 50%), and no eligible seller because the idiot lost his rights in the class by selling after June 28. VW will not have an eligible seller to sell to, thus saving themselves money.
That is my case with respect to one car, but I don't think the class action settlement notice contemplates that situation. Again, it appears from the FTC consent order that post-6/28 buyers are treated the same as pre-9/18 owners. Look, for example at page 10, defining "Post-September 2015 Owner Restitution." It defines it consistently with the class action notice you cite, but it only applies to owners who bought between 9/18 and 6/28. See also pages 19 and 20, requiring that Eligible Owners be paid the Buyback Restitution, except for Eligible Owners who bought between 9/18 and 6/28. There's no exclusion there for Eligible Owners who bought after 6/28.
 

sierra3

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Thanks for posting the link and posting the differences. It _is_ very interesting of the differences. I haven't been going by the FTC docs...just the Court Docs and the VW docs as posted. I was not happy with the settlement for my original car...owned since March '12...so found the 'loophole' and doubled down with a fantastic purchase Friday morning. I guess I need to read the actual court document and see if it matches either the VW document or the FTC document.
 

sierra3

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Yeah, I concur...reading the FTC doc, your points are well taken. It looks to me like there is going to be a lot of lawsuits just trying to make heads or tails out of this document. The VW one covers all of the basis...this one has one glaring flaw:

Consider this situation:
1) 1st owner trades in car in May 2016 after owning it since, say, 2013, to a dealer. Definition 'T' would consider this owner an 'eligible seller' entitled to 50%.
2) June 29th comes and dealer is the 'Eligible Owner' due to Definition 'V' that has him owning the car on 6/28...and is not a VW dealer.
3) Dealer then sells car to a customer on 6/30, thereby losing dealers 'eligible owner' status, and transfers that status to new owner (from 'R' again). Since new owner purchased AFTER 6/28, he/she would consider themselves entitled to 100% benefits.


Just read throught the DOJ decree as well. They are even more lax on the definition. Basically 'eligible buyer' is the owner the day the buyback or fix occurs.


I can't believe they spent 3 pages talking about envelope sizes and what each side of the paper must say...and this miss this gaping hole.
 

DanB36

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Yes, that's a good point, and I'm not quite sure how that would be addressed. I seem to remember a provision that the total compensation for any given car couldn't exceed the buyback amount for that car. If my memory is correct, that would cover this situation.
 

Jimmy Coconuts

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1) 1st owner trades in car in May 2016 after owning it since, say, 2013, to a dealer. Definition 'T' would consider this owner an 'eligible seller' entitled to 50%.
2) June 29th comes and dealer is the 'Eligible Owner' due to Definition 'V' that has him owning the car on 6/28...and is not a VW dealer.
3) Dealer then sells car to a customer on 6/30, thereby losing dealers 'eligible owner' status, and transfers that status to new owner (from 'R' again). Since new owner purchased AFTER 6/28, he/she would consider themselves entitled to 100% benefits.
In the above case, the owner of the car on Sept. 18, 2015 retains eligibility (if claimed) for 50% of owner restitution. The non-VW/Audi dealer who sold the car after July 27th forfeited any claim to the remaining 50% of the owner restitution. The remaining 50% eligibility transfered to the person who bought the car after June 27th. The new owner would also be eligible for a portion of the original 50% if unclaimed.
 

sierra3

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In the above case, the owner of the car on Sept. 18, 2015 retains eligibility (if claimed) for 50% of owner restitution. The non-VW/Audi dealer who sold the car after July 27th forfeited any claim to the remaining 50% of the owner restitution. The remaining 50% eligibility transfered to the person who bought the car after June 27th. The new owner would also be eligible for a portion of the original 50% if unclaimed.
Jimmy, I completely agree...if you read only the VW supplied documents. DanB36 points out, however, that if you read the FTC consent, it outlines only the dates from June 28th and backwards. Not defining purchases after June 28th as claims for for the 10%+amount values. Reading all 3 documents from all 3 sources makes you kind of wonder.
 

Michael A

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Posted this in another thread ....

I just bought a 2015 Audi TDI Premium Pack on June 30th does anyone know how this will effect me?

Looking at the the settlement docs I found this "Owners who sell or otherwise transfer ownership of their Volkswagen or Audi 2.0-liter TDI vehicle between June 28, 2016, and September 16, 2016 (the “Opt-Out Deadline”), inclusive of those dates". Which seems to exclude owners who sell there TDI's after June 28th are not eligible.

Also found this "2.30. “Eligible Owner” means the registered owner or owners of an Eligible Vehicle on June 28, 2016, or the registered owner or owners who acquire an Eligible Vehicle after June 28, 2016, but before the end of the Claim Period"

So it looks like an eligible vehicle purchased after June 28th is being treated no differently than if it was purchased before June 28th.

Thoughts and opinions ??
 

DanB36

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I just bought a 2015 Audi TDI Premium Pack on June 30th does anyone know how this will effect me?
Who did you buy it from? If directly from the original owner, as I read it (references above in this thread), you'll get the full buyback or fix compensation, and they'll get nothing. If used from a dealer, or from a second or subsequent owner, whoever sold it between 9/17 and 6/28 will be eligible for half of the "fix" compensation, and I think that means your compensation (whether you sell the car back or have it fixed) would be reduced by that amount.
 

Michael A

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I bought it from an Audi dealer, it was one of there loaner vehicles and wasn't registered as such until December 2015. The Audi dealer was technically the first owner until June 30th.

Who did you buy it from? If directly from the original owner, as I read it (references above in this thread), you'll get the full buyback or fix compensation, and they'll get nothing. If used from a dealer, or from a second or subsequent owner, whoever sold it between 9/17 and 6/28 will be eligible for half of the "fix" compensation, and I think that means your compensation (whether you sell the car back or have it fixed) would be reduced by that amount.
 

DanB36

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But it was registered with the state in 12/15? It wasn't just driving around on a dealer tag without its own registration? If it was registered by 6/28, it should be an eligible vehicle, and you're definitely an eligible owner.
 

Michael A

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Yes on 12/15 the Audi dealer was the registered owner.
 

dmanb2b

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Thank you folks. So this seems like a deal I should pull the trigger on?

The Passat was traded in last week on a chevy. It is a 2012 TDI SEL, 42k miles, clean carfax and clear title with exception of failed emmissions test in 2014, which it passed a week later and all services performed at vw dealer with exception of 40k service which has not been completed. I know this is the "expensive" service, but I'm a DIY guy and have done all the maint on my Jetta, including the DSG and own a vagcom cable. Slight hestitation that last oil change was performed at 29k miles and car now has 42k, but doubt it's that bad. Lastly the car is Glacier Blue Metallic, which I not particulary a fan of, but for $12k...this car was a $33K car 4 years ago and barely broken in.

This seems like a no brainer to me and undertsand the risk of settlement changing. Appreciate any feedback...I may just put a deposit on the car to hold it.
To follow up, I just got call from dealer that there is a deposit on the Passat.

That said and based on comments here, it makes perfect sense to replace my TDI with another TDI, hold on to both and then let my pre Sept'15 Jetta get bought back later this year and then keep the 2nd for at least 50% owner restition and wait out a "fix".
 

sierra3

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Not to be an ass or anything...I'd call the dealer and tell him what is going on and he can make more money if he holds out. Maybe the new person will back out. It might make the price go up for you, but you still might get a good deal.
 

sierra3

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I actually think that VW _wants_ this to happen. First, all of the TDI's sitting on non-VW lots will get back on the road ready to be bought-back...helping with the 85%. In return, prices on TDIs will skyrocket (similar to the arbitrage that happens when a company announces it is being purchased), which will help the VW dealers sitting on a bunch of used TDIs that they are probably underwater on. The VW dealers can't take the buy-back offer, but they can get close to buy-back if they peddle the cars to third-party customers.

One high-volume dealership in Utah (where I bought my original TDI) already has cranked the prices of their used TDIs into the $20K range.

It was a good deal Friday and Saturday morning....less and less every day.
 

tonestar

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I guess there truly is no answer. Will just have to wait and see what the amount is.
 
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yamaguy

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What do you think about this statement that is on the VWCourtsettlement.com sample table page?

"These tables assume that you owned your car when the emissions accusations became public on September 18, 2015, and that you still own it. If you no longer have your car or if you purchased it after September 18, 2015, then you will be offered a lesser amount, assuming you qualify for the settlement"
 

sierra3

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What do you think about this statement that is on the VWCourtsettlement.com sample table page?
"These tables assume that you owned your car when the emissions accusations became public on September 18, 2015, and that you still own it. If you no longer have your car or if you purchased it after September 18, 2015, then you will be offered a lesser amount, assuming you qualify for the settlement"

Yes, assume (if you bought after Sept 18, 2015) that you only get 50% of the restitution, and if you get more great!

Even with 50%, my July 1 purchase of a 14,000 mile MY13 Passat SE for $16,100 will let me drive free for more than 2 years and sellback for about $24K. If you don't like the settlement, make the settlement work for you.
 

yamaguy

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