Electric vehicles (EVs), their emissions, and future viability

[nwdiver]

Who said anything about the plug-in? I was thinking of the straight gasser.

Gasser??? LOL... don't waste our time with obsolete garbage...

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Gasser??? LOL... don't waste our time with obsolete garbage...

Drove my obsolete garbage TDI to NYC from MA this AM: 250 miles each way. Will drive home tonight and not have to make a fuel stop. May not need fuel until Friday. Still appreciate that feature.

 

[oilhammer]

My obsolete garbage is 20 years old and has 571k miles on it, LOL.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

A mere 408K here. But I have had to replace the battery.

 

[turbobrick240]

A prepped Model 3 performance has set a new Tesla track record at Buttonwillow. At 1:54, it's quicker around the track than a Porsche 911 GT2 and McLaren 570S! What a gorgeous track machine.

https://electrek-co.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/electrek.co/2020/03/03/tesla-model-3-performance-record-buttonwillow-racetrack/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15833292077907&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Felectrek.co%2F2020%2F03%2F03%2Ftesla-model-3-performance-record-buttonwillow-racetrack%2F

 

[tikal]

A prepped Model 3 performance has set a new Tesla track record at Buttonwillow. At 1:54, it's quicker around the track than a Porsche 911 GT2 and McLaren 570S! What a gorgeous track machine.

https://electrek-co.cdn.ampproject....-3-performance-record-buttonwillow-racetrack/

If you have the $$$$ go for it. I am aiming much lower cost wise. Below $13K used.

 

[turbobrick240]

Super impressive whether you plan to buy one or not. I had no plans to buy the top model a few months back. It's looking much more feasible now.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

My belief about track day cars is you have to be willing to wreck and write the car off and not be unhappy with the loss. No insurance. If you can't do that you've brought the wrong car to the track. Track day insurance is too expensive. Not ready to do that with a Tesla.

 

[turbobrick240]

I can appreciate that philosophy. I'd probably have as much fun at the track with my foot to the floor in a $3k miata. I remember watching multi six figure new Ferraris race prior to the main F1 race at COTA. Several of them wrecked spectacularly. Though I suppose those guys can probably swing the premiums for track insurance.

 

[jackbombay]

A mere 408K here. But I have had to replace the battery.

Didn't you also rebuild the engine, and still had high oil consumption after the rebuild due to ovalized cylinders so you had to get a new block?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Didn't you also rebuild the engine, and still had high oil consumption after the rebuild due to ovalized cylinders so you had to get a new block?

At this point the whole drivetrain is replaced: New factory long block 115K ago, replacement transmission and new axles a couple years ago. Odds are if I'd kept the car stock I could still be driving the original drivetrain: My son's '02 is at 395K and everything, including the turbo, is original. He did have to replace the original clutch at 330K.

When you modify these cars you have to pay to play: sort of. Getting over 250K out of a stock long block when making twice stock power for half that time isn't something I can complain about. I've never kept a car anywhere near this long. If I had the foresight to know I was going to do this I would have kept it closer to stock. Maybe. It makes about 50% more power than stock now.

 

[Tin Man]

With the toxic chemicals associated with solar panels as well as recent scientific papers decrying the production of natural gas (read: where much of the electricity is made) causing serious climate change (read: methane worse than CO2) AND the fact that gasoline is in a surplus from the demand for diesel worldwide (read its there already) I'd say the gasser ICE is far from obsolete. Wonder how long the electric motors last under heavy duty load on typical EV's, who can only dream of a 600 mile range and 5 minute "recharge" like my clean diesel. With the market for EV's basically stagnant except for a well-made Tesla Model 3 its questionable which is the obsolete garbage among our choices....

Arrogance doesn't make good friends or convince anyone.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

At this point the whole drivetrain is replaced: New factory long block 115K ago, replacement transmission and new axles a couple years ago. Odds are if I'd kept the car stock I could still be driving the original drivetrain: My son's '02 is at 395K and everything, including the turbo, is original. He did have to replace the original clutch at 330K.

No bet on those odds - 404K here, on a mostly-original engine (new turbo at 325K, swapped in rebuilt IP at about the same time when the seals failed) that has never burned a drop of oil as far as I can tell - only times I've had to add, it's been due to an actual leaky seal.

I'll concede that I'm on my 3rd 01M in that span (which makes me either crazy, a masochist, or both for not having manual-swapped yet ), but what can I say about that, other than "01M"?

 

[jackbombay]

At this point the whole drivetrain is replaced...

Thats a lot more than "replacing the battery".

I was somewhere around double HP on mine for a bit, but its been at about +%50 for some time now, but I don't take it to the track. I'm at 250k miles and oil consumption is still minimal, I'll be surprised if I don't get 500k out of the engine.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The "replacing the battery" was a joke. And mine ran fine until about 270K when in the course of a timing belt replacement, we discovered we could wiggle the valve stems. And the rods were all bent. No symptoms, car ran great, oil consumption minimal.

I doubt there are enough high mileage Teslas out there (please spare us the Tesloop cars) to create any reasonable sample size and determine longevity. I love it when owners brag about having as much as 50K on their car. My TDI wasn't fully broken in until 60K. But higher mileage cars I have read about have had plenty of replacements: screens, motors, batteries, you name it.

 

[jackbombay]

mine ran fine until about 270K when in the course of a timing belt replacement, we discovered we could wiggle the valve stems. And the rods were all bent.

That why I decided to be happy with a + %50 tune!

Plus, I drive in a manner that heals engines, my sprinter had very high aluminum in the UOAs when I got it :-( But with my maintenance schedule and driving habits the aluminum in mu UOAs is now well below average.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Running a fair amount of fuel, 26 PSI boost, and many shifts on the track at 6000 RPM certainly contributed to the wear.

 

[turbobrick240]

6000 rpm, damn. Was that on a money shift? One time I passed my uncle on the interstate in my tdi- he had just bought a used boxster and downshifted from 5th to 2nd (meant to grab 4th) right as I was overtaking. I think he got another 10k or so out of that engine.

 

[jackbombay]

6000 rpm, damn. Was that on a money shift?

It was with a tune set up to spin to 6000 intentionally.

 

[turbobrick240]

Ah, I suppose an aftermarket cam & springs were probably involved if it was still making good power at that speed.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Actually they were stock internals. The 6000 RPM limit was helpful on the track, allowed me to get to 80 in 3rd and 115 in 4th. Fewer shifts. You could feel a little valve float at the limit.

 

[03GolfTDI]

Popping in here quickly to say I made the jump to an e-Golf SE.

Basically I was using my 2012 TDI Sportwagen as a short trip commuter (~5700 miles in 11 months) which was completely inappropriate for its intended purpose. That on top of eye popping ($$$) and time consuming warranty repairs on the panoramic moonroof and I decided 1 electric and 1 TDI in the stable should suffice just fine. My other half TDI sees a more normal commute and routine 45 min -1 hour freeway trips 2-3x per week.

So far so good with the e-Golf, with my short commute and lack of really venturing farther than 5 miles from home I should be able to just plug in at work on Fridays for a "fill up" and run that until the following Friday. The 2015-2016 have a stated range of 83 miles - (2017+ have 125 miles) - my commute this week so far I am targeted to hit that 83 miles but the guess o meter is just that, this morning going into work it swung all the way down to 42 miles remaining because the heat kicked on due to it being the 40's. Because it warmed up into the mid-high 60's I was able to drive 3 miles home, 3 miles back to work then 3 miles home again and end with 50 miles remaining range.

Range anxiety I can understand just because the full range is so low to start. All my previous cars I would start to freak out when range remaining was 25-30 miles because that was fuel light territory, going to try to get past that this charge because 25-30 miles could still be half battery.

Level 2 chargers at work and the places I go (20 miles charge per hour) run about .90/cents per 20 miles or lets say about $3.60 for a full charge of 80 miles. I calculated my at home electric and it would be about the same but it would just be an ultra slow charge (~4 miles charge per hour) because it would just be plugged into a standard outlet.

Pics and my post in the MKVI forum below.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=505911

 

[SilverGhost]

Nice! You can find a nice wall charger on Amazon and have L2 charging at home. Some as simple as using a drier plug, others requiring an electrician to install.

So work charges you to use the plug or just the other local charging station? I work at a dealer and there are 3 chargers, none of which have a way to charge you for service.

Just have to find a good deal on a eGolf so I can join the club.

Jason

PS: side benefit of plugging in every night at home is you can pre-heat or pre-cool the car without killing your range

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Americans have repeatedly demonstrated incredible short-sightedness when responding to changes in oil prices: buying efficient cars when prices rise, and jettisoning them for trucks and SUVs as soon as they fall. Wonder if any lasting drop in oil prices now will drive people towards ICE and away from EVs.

 

[oilhammer]

And GM just announced they are putting the even bigger gas V8 in the G-vans. In case you *need* 400hp in a commercial van.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

As much as I need a 500 HP SUV or 600 HP luxury car.

 

[kjclow]

Americans have repeatedly demonstrated incredible short-sightedness when responding to changes in oil prices: buying efficient cars when prices rise, and jettisoning them for trucks and SUVs as soon as they fall. Wonder if any lasting drop in oil prices now will drive people towards ICE and away from EVs.

This would be a good time to trade in the big gas guzzler and buy another. With rug bouncing around the $2 mark, I agree that will see an uptick in SUV/pick up sales.

 

[jackbombay]

Wonder if any lasting drop in oil prices now will drive people towards ICE and away from EVs.

Doubtful, the lack of maintenance combined with a silent powerful car that never needs to be filled up has to be hard to give up.

 

[turbobrick240]

This artificial volatility in the oil market will lead to higher prices at the pump. The Russians goal is to weaken US shale oil production. I think it will backfire on them and result in hastening our shift away from fossil fuels.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The Russians goal is to weaken US shale oil production.

This could work. I've read that many oil exploration companies are very highly leveraged and a price war could cause some to fail.