Since 2009 when VW introduced the TDI-CR engine'd car sold here in ~480,000 units sold......These engines in many cases put out cleaner air than they take in!
False. Emissions testing includes correcting for background pollutants:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...&node=pt40.33.1065&rgn=div5#se40.33.1065_1520
Now lets look at the reality today that 70-80 % of the electricity produced/consumed today across the US is made from coal......
False. The actual figure is 39%:
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3
And for the fantasy some are throwing around out there on this thread and other places....... California contrary to politcal non-sense being spewed in this thread has ony tail piped shifted that pollution still reling on coal to get the majority of their energy.....They have closed local coal fired plants shifting productiion to the coal fired plants in the rest of the west, they have not gone to cleaner energy production for the majority of what is used today in that state!!!!!!!!!!!!!
False. EIA estimates show that coal is a tiny percentage of their consumption, even counting interstate electricity flow:
http://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=CA#tabs-1 (They are using a lot of natural gas, though.) And, even if it was tail-pipe shifted, it would have shifted it away from population areas that are extremely smog-prone.
These subsidies EV industry relies on for their very existance are not like the oil & coal subsidies given.......Not in any way when looked at in how they are given compared to how useless they are in the real world when cost of production is looked at compared to what is given in similar with gasoline or diesel power for qas little as 1/10th the cost!!!
While the operation of our economy and our entire society is built on these energy subsidies, the EV industy gives nothing useful for the cost of what they are currerntly given...........
Using EVs instead of ICE vehicles can provide significant improvements in public health, by eliminating tailpipe PM entirely (including ultrafines) and reducing brake PM, eliminating local NOx emissions, eliminating local VOC emissions, and similar improvements. It also reduces real energy consumption in most parts of the US, especially in stop-and-go traffic. And, for 85% of the US, their commute distances are 50 mi or less round trip (source:
http://www.statisticbrain.com/commute-statistics/), which any of the EVs on the market can do no problem.
Please give a real reason why an EV which is recieving road tax & income tax cheat status today deserves such when you can go to any dealer and purchase a subcompact class auto for as little as 1/10th the price(without the tax give away required) a vehicle which can in most conditions return high 30s to low 40s mpgs real world for hundreds of thousands of miles.....
Comparing a Nissan Versa or Mitsubishi Mirage to a fully loaded Tesla (that's what it takes to get to 10x the cheapest cars in the US) is disingenous. The person driving the fully loaded Tesla wasn't going to buy a Versa or Mirage, they were going to buy a luxury sedan from another automaker. A much more fair comparison would be to vehicles like the Leaf or i-MiEV, which are around 2 times the price of their ICE counterparts, not ten.
Or why these less than Useless to most of us EVs deserve such a break in emissions( real emissions they are shifting to other parts of the US to get their power) while we have in law today emissions regs which in no way give us cleaner air on light duty diesels??????????
Even when an EV does have poor emissions (in an area where coal power is heavy), it's still shifting it away from population areas. Emissions don't matter as much in low traffic rural areas, but they definitely matter in urban areas, so if you can move the emissions, you're better off overall.
This is a system which is in no way fair to anyone, we are blocked from having the most fuel efficient autos ever built or concieved of small displacement light duty diesel autos by emissions regulations designed to block the sale of such.....laws never intended to clean up any air.....
how could these stupidly over stringent light duty diesel emissions laws give us cleaner air when NO ONE HAS SOLD THESE VEHICLES HERE IN THE US FOR 3 DECADES NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you considered that maybe we have cleaner air because light duty diesels are rare? Just look at European cities and their horrendous smog problems.
Over the 6 years VW is acused of skirting the law at best on NOx regs....
~18,000,000 light & meduim duty large displacement gasoline engine'd pukeups real world wasting gas @ ~8-10 city /12-15 highway....spewing mega-tons of unregulated nor measured today ultra-fine PMs.......
UFP regulations are potentially coming in 2017.
Bringing up coal and oil subsidies, bringing them into this discussion when those subsidies help us all giving us cheaper energy to run our homes, busineses, everything our society is based on as defence for giving the less than useless to most in the real world, giving nothing that is not already given in the average compact car for as little as 1/10th the cost......A little............
Have you considered that maybe energy should be more expensive? That might encourage behaviors that would reduce energy consumption. In any case, renewable subsidies are usually to make them competitive with coal and oil, which are also subsidizied.
They deserve nothing in break from road taxes of any sorts, or in tax credits for the next to nothing they really give when compared to their costs of production/sale($70-100+k) compared to what any of us can go to any makes dealership and get in a small gasoline powered auto class vehicle for far less than $10-15k today.......
There are EVs as cheap as $23k before incentives on the US market today. Not exactly $70k.
EVs rely on grid power to move( dirty coal produced power compared gasoling or diesel engine'd offerings ), their production costs are excessive cmapared to all gasoline or diesel powered offerings giving nothing that these can not give for as little as 1/10th the cost), most have such a short driving range as to be useless for most in the world I live in to ever consider them..........
I've already debunked your claim that it's mostly coal (it is in some parts of the country, but on average, it isn't). Their production costs are high, but falling, and not excessive. And, thanks for admitting that it's only
in your world that they fall short of a range requirement. I wouldn't recommend an EV for you, but there's plenty of people that don't require TDI range, and any of the EVs will get them to and from work just fine.
Oh, and roads are subsidized altogether, actually - only 50.4% of state and local road expenditure is from user fees (tolls) and taxes (fuel and registration):
http://taxfoundation.org/article/ga...-fees-pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending
