Edmunds Fuel Sipper Smackdown - TDi rates high

Cleenlivin

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Cost???

I thought it was a good review but how could they neglect such a huge deciding factor like the cost of the car. In my opinion, when you take that variable into consideration along with the other factors the Jetta is the real winner of the top two.
 

F8L

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I hear ya. The Volt would never pencil out unless you have a bunch of solar panels on your roof. lol

Ultimately not everyone cares about the economic factors. Some just want to reduce pollution, save lives, reduce dependence on foreign oil, and reduce their burden on taxpayers (because every gallon you waste was subsidized by your neighbor).
 

mrspindlelegs

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I thought it was a good review but how could they neglect such a huge deciding factor like the cost of the car. In my opinion, when you take that variable into consideration along with the other factors the Jetta is the real winner of the top two.
When you read the Edmunds article, the TDI is at the bottom of the overall test. The Fiat 500 is really the overall winner when you factor in cost of driving and purchase price. Of course, the Fiat 500 is not a practical solution for everybody due to its size. The Hyundai Elantra does pretty good overall considering its base price. The Jetta TDI is the most practical for me but I would really need the Golf version for hauling versatility. That big lump of torque is the intangible factor that makes the VWs so much fun to drive.

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy...n-4-which-car-gets-the-best-fuel-economy.html
 

Harvieux

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When you read the Edmunds article, the TDI is at the bottom of the overall test. The Fiat 500 is really the overall winner when you factor in cost of driving and purchase price. Of course, the Fiat 500 is not a practical solution for everybody due to its size. The Hyundai Elantra does pretty good overall considering its base price. The Jetta TDI is the most practical for me but I would really need the Golf version for hauling versatility. That big lump of torque is the intangible factor that makes the VWs so much fun to drive.

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy...n-4-which-car-gets-the-best-fuel-economy.html
Yea, but how about the worry factor and possible $8000 repair cost nightmare, especially after the short VW warranty?:rolleyes: Later!
 
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donDavide

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Ultimately not everyone cares about the economic factors. Some just want to reduce pollution, save lives, reduce dependence on foreign oil, and reduce their burden on taxpayers (because every gallon you waste was subsidized by your neighbor).
Then the Jetta fits the bill for all of above. But the last time i checked Diesel was not subsidized, in fact quite a bit of tax on the fuel .
 

DickSilver

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I personally like the TDI driveability (read: low-end torque) a lot. I too would probably choose the Golf TDI if I were buying a new car now, which I am not. All arguments aside, I am encouraged to see a variety of small, well-built cars, each using a different drivetrain design to get improved fuel economy. As long as there is the freedom to innovate, the next ten years or so are bound to see lots more innovation in vehicles.
 

Sappington

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Yea, but how about the worry factor and possible $8000 repair cost nightmare, especially after the short VW warranty?:rolleyes: Later!
This is a great point, and pretty damning coming from a vendor. I was disappointed to see only 3-year 36k miles for the recent VWs. I had a timing belt snap on me when my '03 jetta was only 1,200 miles out of warranty, and VW wanted to charge me $4,500 for the repair to my engine. A TDI club member did it for under $3k, but still, that's a big chunk of change for something that failed THAT close to the warranty period (and the belt was supposed to be a 90k one).

I complained to VWoA, and their only response was $700 credit toward the purchase of a new car. Buggers.
 

donDavide

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This is a great point, and pretty damning coming from a vendor. I was disappointed to see only 3-year 36k miles for the recent VWs. I had a timing belt snap on me when my '03 jetta was only 1,200 miles out of warranty, and VW wanted to charge me $4,500 for the repair to my engine. A TDI club member did it for under $3k, but still, that's a big chunk of change for something that failed THAT close to the warranty period (and the belt was supposed to be a 90k one).

I complained to VWoA, and their only response was $700 credit toward the purchase of a new car. Buggers.
Yes, 3/36 sux. They should at least go back to 5/60 or was it 5/50. Anyway point is improve quality and bump it up.
 

kjclow

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When I bought my 2000 beetle it was only 24/24000. I would rather give up the two oil changes for the 5/60 warrenty.
 

vdubdezl

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I hear ya. The Volt would never pencil out unless you have a bunch of solar panels on your roof. lol

Ultimately not everyone cares about the economic factors. Some just want to reduce pollution, save lives, reduce dependence on foreign oil, and reduce their burden on taxpayers (because every gallon you waste was subsidized by your neighbor).

The main thing that every one with electric or hybrid/electrics like the Volt, that no one EVER talks about is where the electricity comes from that " reduces" pollution. Hmmm....maybe the big giant COAL-BURNING power plant! So you are not reducing but probably actually increasing pollution. (NOTE:I am not a scientist, nor a politician so I have no actual facts. Just my own observation and opinion!!)
 

ToolNut

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To quote this month's Car&Driver comparison between the Chevy Cruze "Eco" and the overpriced Volt:

"Based on EPA combined-mileage ratings, $4 per gallon for gas, and $0.112 per kWh for electricity, the savings attributable to driving the Volt 100,000 miles solely on electricity over the gas-powered Cruze is only $8089."

The Cruze Eco can be had for about $19K. The Volt is about $34K, including the Fed's tax break. If C&D's math is correct, that $15K difference would take about 185K miles of driving on electric alone in order to make the Volt even out price-wise.

No thanks.
 

agdtec

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Warren Clarcke on day 2 complains of the "power delivery is unpredictable"? @ 1:51 ***? How about explaining that comment, did it die out, did it sputter or did you have a hard time getting up to speed? It probably scared the the $#!t out of him when he stomped on the go pedal and it actually went.
So having a car that is very fun to drive, and gets very good milage is a bad thing? :confused:
 
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Turbodude1

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VW's warranty is seriously deficient compared to other manufacturers. My father was recently looking to replace his commuter car and looked at some vw's. The warranty was one of the first things that sent him over to Hyndai.
 

Sappington

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Yeah, what the heck are they thinking with only a 3-year warranty? Are they really that reluctant to stand behind the quality of their cars? :mad: Mazda diesel, where are you??
 

abctdi

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The main thing that every one with electric or hybrid/electrics like the Volt, that no one EVER talks about is where the electricity comes from that " reduces" pollution. Hmmm....maybe the big giant COAL-BURNING power plant! So you are not reducing but probably actually increasing pollution. (NOTE:I am not a scientist, nor a politician so I have no actual facts. Just my own observation and opinion!!)
Yes, in many/most cases, those plug-ins are indeed coal powered like the locomotives of yesteryear.
 

Harvieux

Vendor , w/Business number
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Whittier,CA-USA
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5/60 on the powertrain? in line with honda/toyota and ford.
Yea, but if you read what's actually covered under that 5/60 you'll notice they leave out the HPFP and even the turbo, by golly!:rolleyes:

Many here have corresponded with VW CC and were emailed in return that the HPFP is covered however, that may or may not be enough to actually get it covered unless you litigated them till the cows come home. :rolleyes:

The HPFP sees no engine oil for lubrication and the turbo receives oil via line supply and therefore they can most likely weasel out of that too under the internally lubricated only clause. Later!
 

tico27464

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Yea, but if you read what's actually covered under that 5/60 you'll notice they leave out the HPFP and even the turbo, by golly!:rolleyes:

Many here have corresponded with VW CC and were emailed in return that the HPFP is covered however, that may or may not be enough to actually get it covered unless you litigated them till the cows come home. :rolleyes:

The HPFP sees no engine oil for lubrication and the turbo receives oil via line supply and therefore they can most likely weasel out of that too under the internally lubricated only clause. Later!
I was one of whom you describe above--they also, in their response, stated that "any collateral damage caused by the failure" of the HPFP would also be covered by the 5/60. In this economic climate, I'd imagine the sender of the email (from VWOA) would lose their job before they'd hang a customer out to dry and face all the bad rap that goes with that, not to mention litigation (which would, believe you me, occur). But, of course, I reserve the right to be wrong.

Seriously though, wouldn't you think someone answering such a question, known by VW to relate to a controversial and expensive matter, in writing no less, would at least run the reply by a few higher-ups before firing it off to the customer? Don't get me wrong, I'm cynical about this whole thing too, but in you I believe I've more than met my match:eek:--and of course I respect your intimate knowledge of the biz.

~T
 

kjclow

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Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Chevy all have 3/36 bumper to bumper and 5/60 (chevy 5/100) powertrain, what's the difference between these and VW?
 

oxford_guy

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Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Chevy all have 3/36 bumper to bumper and 5/60 (chevy 5/100) powertrain, what's the difference between these and VW?
If the VW powertrain doesn't cover the HPFP, the turbo, and "poor-quality diesel", then probably a lot of money. People have said that some stations put gasoline into their diesel tanks to kill organisms. That gives me a lot of confidence.
 

bvencil

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Virginia
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Seems to me that the whole exercise, while interesting is not very meaningful, with 4 different drivers, all having different styles of driving. Driving style and technique is huge when it comes to FE.
 

Turbodude1

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Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Chevy all have 3/36 bumper to bumper and 5/60 (chevy 5/100) powertrain, what's the difference between these and VW?
I guess thats why my dad bought a Hyndai. 5/60 bumper to bumer 5/100 powertrain. He's only in cars for 100-130K so it's probably the best option.
 

Thunderstruck

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That's exactly why I've been looking at Hyundai. VW doesn't have much confidence in the long term durability of their cars if a 3/36 is the best they can offer.
 

Sappington

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Or maybe Hyundai has perfected the weasel language for warranties, and so doesn't have to fix some problems that occur....
 

Softrockrenegade

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5/60 or 10/100 doesn't much matter to me as far as long term ... I'll be past 100k in 3 years and that scares the $h!# outta me with any car (5 year loan)...
 

kjclow

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The other possibility is that Hyundai doesn't have as much confidence in their cars and so offer a longer warranty period to keep the customers that end up with failures from flaming them in all of these different blogs on the web.
 

Turbodude1

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I was a little nervous when we started shopping, but from what I have seen the engineering and build quality are very good. I think it's the other mfg's that should be scarred. Price was impressive as well. Out the door for under 19K.
 

abctdi

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Seems to me that the whole exercise, while interesting is not very meaningful, with 4 different drivers, all having different styles of driving. Driving style and technique is huge when it comes to FE.
This is the only on topic input in the last few days...what's a matter you?:)
 

NorthernMage

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Victoria, BC
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Ok, would like to stay on topic but not sure why the warranty is different in Canada, we have 4 year 80K Kms bumper to bumper and 5 years 100K Kms powertrain, why only 3 years in the US, same car built in the same plant in Mexico. What makes that one year reduction explainable? Your roads are better, your climate is better, your highway speeds are higher (which would be a good thing in 6th gear - no lugging) so I am at a loss.
 
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