EA288 Water Pump Failures?

sootchucker

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Good morning group, I searched and found some writing on the topic but I am curious to know who has experienced failures of the belt driven variable water pump in their CRUA/CVCA engines. What were your symptoms and how was that pump diagnosed as the culprit? Safe to assume your timing belt was also changed at the same time?

I am seeing no movement of coolant through my engine.. causing overheating. I am getting the impression that excessive heat from a minor collision, rupturing the auxiliary radiator that has since been repaired has swelled the impeller from the shaft of the pump.

o_O
 

TurboABA

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So your water-to-air rad was damaged?
That should've only caused high IATs and it wouldn't be sufficient to "overheat" the other two "coolant" systems....

What are you symptoms other than overheating, and how are you diagnosing?
 

sootchucker

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So your water-to-air rad was damaged?
That should've only caused high IATs and it wouldn't be sufficient to "overheat" the other two "coolant" systems....

What are you symptoms other than overheating, and how are you diagnosing?
correct - that was the only damage sustained and repaired properly, confirmed with vacuum tools that there are no leaks present.

i hit a pile of dirt on a road being graded and lost virtually all coolant in the system - i have to imagine it was all pumped out because i had codes present for dry running pumps.

my only symptom is overheating. i am diagnosing with nothing really other than research because i cant find anything wrong with the car... it just doesnt move coolant through the block and overheats.
 

TurboABA

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I'd say the system hasn't been properly refilled\bled at this point..... I guess it does seem feasible that it was all pumped out if you kept running for a while....
You need VCDS to look at some measuring block in order to get some clues I'd say.

ssp said:
Charge Air Cooling Coolant Circuit (Low-Temperature Circuit) The charge air cooling system adjusts the intake manifold air temperature using a liquid coolant radiator. The charge air temperature is regulated by the ECM, which activates the V188 Charge Air Cooling Pump to regulate the charge air temperature. The intake manifold temperature after the charge air cooler provides the reference value for actuating V188. The coolant circuit for charge air cooling is connected to the engine coolant circuit by a non-return valve and a restrictor for filling and bleeding. During operation, there is no connection to the engine coolant circuit.
Do you still have any CELs going on?
 
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sootchucker

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I'd say the system hasn't been properly refilled\bled at this point.....
The charge system should be "isolated" and the main circuit should've have been "depleted".
You need VCDS to look at some measuring block in order to get some clues I'd say.



Do you still have any CELs going on?
i have VCDS - no current codes. i have monitored several blocks, which have led me to the water pump because everything appears normal except block temp.

if i had not gone as far as having the dealer fill/bleed, i would agree that it wasn't done properly. but i did it myself first with the VCDS bleed/fill program and an airlift 55000.... and then the dealer did it with their own methods. i have to rule out that thought, unfortunately.
 

sootchucker

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also... i am fairly certain i have ruled out a head gasket failure.

i have no visible evidence of coolant in oil, and no evidence of oil in coolant. i have no coolant loss, and i have no soot in coolant.
 

TurboABA

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I'd suggest you monitor\log your coolant temps off the G62 head sensor vs oil temps and rad temps, etc......
My logic says that if you have air pockets and your thermostat isn't opening, the main coolant circuit is not being used and you're basically just running off the micro circuit (or head system)
 

TurboABA

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I'm not ready to blame the pump yet, because I think it should throw a code.... it's monitored by the ECM for power consumption, so it would essentially think it's on a dry system (like it did when you lost the coolant the threw the code) if the shaft was spinning freely without the impeller\coolant resistance....
 

sootchucker

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I'd suggest you monitor\log your coolant temps off the G62 head sensor vs oil temps and rad temps, etc......
My logic says that if you have air pockets and your thermostat isn't opening, the main coolant circuit is not being used and you're basically just running off the micro circuit (or head system)
i cant entirely disagree, but what are the chances there is air in the system if its been been refilled/bled twice with what were the proper tools/procedures in my opinion.....?

I'm not ready to blame the pump yet, because I think it should throw a code.... it's monitored by the ECM for power consumption, so it would essentially think it's on a dry system (like it did when you lost the coolant the threw the code) if the shaft was spinning freely without the impeller\coolant resistance....
interesting thought... not that it matters, but do you know if a dry running pump will trigger a MIL?
 

TurboABA

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i cant entirely disagree, but what are the chances there is air in the system if its been been refilled/bled twice with what were the proper tools/procedures in my opinion.....?
I have seen stuff like this floating around.... but have never been through it personally, so take it with a grain of salt.

internet said:
This is not exact procedure, maybe it helps someone testing.

EA288 can be many different engines and cooling system layout, different pumps etc!
Information from erwin is needed and right equipment, VAS 6096..
Just a few engines: CLHA, CRBC, CRKA, CRKB, CRLB, CRUA, CVCA, CUNA, CUSA, CUSB, CUTA, CUAA
We have not seen an Autoscan from your A5.

1)
Ignition ON - Engine OFF
[16-Security access] Shown (maybe not needed for all systems/engines)
[10-Adaptation]: "IDE08287-Bleed cooling circuit" > Active > [Do It!]
Wait 10 sec. > Start engine at idle
[16-Security access] Shown
[04-Basic Settings]
[Show measurement Data]
values/information:
IDE00021 / IDE00085 / IDE00322 / IDE00450 / IDE00451 / IDE00787 / IDE07725
[04-Basic Settings]: "IDE08087-Test - Bleed cooling circuit" > [Go!]
About 6 min. Idle > 2 min. 2500 Rpm > 6 min. Idle > Look at measurement values/information's:
"Finished correctly" and IDE00322 = "was ended"
[04-Basic Settings]: "IDE08087-Test - Bleed cooling circuit" > [Stop]
Stop engine > Ignition ON

2)
[16-Security access]
Shown
[04-Basic Settings]
[Show measurement Data]
Search and load measurement values/information's:
IDE00021 / IDE00085 / IDE00322 / IDE00450 / IDE00451 / IDE00787 / IDE07725
[04-Basic Settings]: "IDE04795-Test - Bleeding of low temperature circuit" > "4 sec." > [Go!]
Time: maybe 5-10 Minutes? Look at measurement values/information's
[04-Basic Settings]: "IDE04795-Test - Bleeding of low temperature circuit" > [Stop]

Repeat 2) 3 times
interesting thought... not that it matters, but do you know if a dry running pump will trigger a MIL?
I am speculating it would.... only because both the V488 & V188 would...... but this may not necessarily be true.
Trying to monitor as many values throughout the system as you can should validate or disprove these theories and at least point you in a more distinct area.
 

TurboABA

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.... and then the dealer did it with their own methods.
I would suggest entertaining "calling them out on it"..... I mean, if the coolant pump wasn't circulating coolant during their "proper" methods, they should've been unsuccessful in completing the process...... how can one bleed the system when coolant isn't being circulated though the system?
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Sometimes a rapid loss of coolant on a hot engine can tooef the thermostat, among other things. Unfortunately, nothing (including the thermostat) is especially quick or easy to access on that engine.
 

sootchucker

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I have seen stuff like this floating around.... but have never been through it personally, so take it with a grain of salt.

I am speculating it would.... only because both the V488 & V188 would...... but this may not necessarily be true.
Trying to monitor as many values throughout the system as you can should validate or disprove these theories and at least point you in a more distinct area.
i found the same process and followed it exactly - that was prior to the dealer visit when my overheating issue was still present. the only reason i decided to take the car to the dealer is because i had read that there was a valve that must be opened before applying a vacuum to the system, allowing the system to rest under vacuum to verify no leaks and then fill the system in its entirety. it still is my understanding that the bleed cooling circuit function in VCDS does NOT open that valve, making a dealer visit a requirement to properly bleed the system if required. after the dealer visit the car shows no signs of any problems for a few days. i suspect that this is because the auxiliary electric pump is programmed to run for a certain number of miles after the car is bled, to remove any residual air from the system. i am, until oilhammers comment assuming that the aux pump prevented overheating by moving something around while the belt driven pump was "incapacitated" by heat. could i also assume that with cooler temps (car not at operating temp) that the impeller is/was working?

Sometimes a rapid loss of coolant on a hot engine can tooef the thermostat, among other things. Unfortunately, nothing (including the thermostat) is especially quick or easy to access on that engine.
when my accident occurred it was definitely at the higher end of the operating range... hot day, AC blasting, going uphill and sendin' it :).... so this is a possibility. the thermostat is being replaced (by the dealer, as i type) to potentially resolve the issue. so you could be on to something...

could you mind shedding some light on why a t stat would fail under this condition?
 

pedroYUL

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Luckily, I have a CRUA with a nonsensical water pump, not a variable speed changed when I did the TB. Also have a CVCA with the original water pump.

Next time I'm out and the engine gets up to temp, I will disconnect both coolant hoses return and check for flow, and report back for you.

I did tell you that the original pump is not only variable speed with a solenoid, but the impeller is plastic and I could suspect detaching from the shaft is a possibility.

Edit: Half the work is done, as expected CRUA with a nonsensical pump moves coolant with a cold engine. CVCA with original pump does not. All that remains is make sure my CVCA moves water while at temp, but I will all but bet my left nut it does, as I don't have overheating issues with either.

Now, just to be absolutely clear: the solenoid does Not drive the water pump, the pump is always moving by the TB. Solenoid controls the flow of coolant by opening or closing a passage
 
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sootchucker

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Luckily, I have a CRUA with a nonsensical water pump, not a variable speed changed when I did the TB. Also have a CVCA with the original water pump.

Next time I'm out and the engine gets up to temp, I will disconnect both coolant hoses return and check for flow, and report back for you.

I did tell you that the original pump is not only variable speed with a solenoid, but the impeller is plastic and I could suspect detaching from the shaft is a possibility.
so it is possible, without confusing the ECM to replace the variable pump with the non variable pump??

and yes, you did! and i am still having the same old problems :(

hope to be back on the road by first snow. this is my winter car after all.
 

pedroYUL

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so it is possible, without confusing the ECM to replace the variable pump with the non variable pump??

and yes, you did! and i am still having the same old problems :(

hope to be back on the road by first snow. this is my winter car after all.
Seeing is believing:

That Geba pump I got with the kit (not the one pictured) had a metal impeller. To not confuse the ECU, you transfer the solenoid over to the new water pump and the car still thinks has control over it.
 

pedroYUL

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Also, just to be clear. The pump been TB driven will send a small amount of coolant at idle, don't expect to see a huge stream, but it should be moving water back to the bottle when at temp.
 

sootchucker

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Seeing is believing:

That Geba pump I got with the kit (not the one pictured) had a metal impeller. To not confuse the ECU, you transfer the solenoid over to the new water pump and the car still thinks has control over it.
so you have this pump, retrofitted with the solenoid?


Also, just to be clear. The pump been TB driven will send a small amount of coolant at idle, don't expect to see a huge stream, but it should be moving water back to the bottle when at temp.
fact - however my thought is/was if at higher temps, the plastic impeller swells off the shaft and voila - overheats.
 

pedroYUL

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so you have this pump, retrofitted with the solenoid?




fact - however my thought is/was if at higher temps, the plastic impeller swells off the shaft and voila - overheats.
Yes I bought that kit from IDparts and did my TB. The solenoid can be taken out of the old pump and fitted to the new pump, but there is no passages in the new pump for the solenoid to do anything, but best yet, there is a metal impeller attached to the shaft.

I would agree that the plastic impeller could be spinning, not all the time on the shaft.
 

sootchucker

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Yes I bought that kit from IDparts and did my TB. The solenoid can be taken out of the old pump and fitted to the new pump, but there is no passages in the new pump for the solenoid to do anything, but best yet, there is a metal impeller attached to the shaft.

I would agree that the plastic impeller could be spinning, not all the time on the shaft.
after the thermostat is replaced, the water pump is my next target. or the car will be free to a good home hah
 

nathanso

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Maybe your water pump's shroud is stuck in the 'static coolant' position? See

This design gives me the willies so I bypassed mine with a second free-floating solenoid, never allowing the wp to be directed into static coolant mode. Since we live in a temperate climate the impact is hopefully minimal.
 

pedroYUL

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Thank you for that video Nathan. I didn't know exactly how the solenoid acted upon the pump, and my pump went to recycling heaven long time ago.

I can confirm that my Passat CVCA does move coolant back to the reservoir when warmed up. It does sound more and more that the OP has a sticky sleeve.
 
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sootchucker

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anybody venture to guess, or even assume that a dry running water pump could possibly affect the sleeve in the WP?
 

sootchucker

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Sometimes a rapid loss of coolant on a hot engine can tooef the thermostat, among other things. Unfortunately, nothing (including the thermostat) is especially quick or easy to access on that engine.
thermostat replaced and the issue is still present. i guess water pump next??? i still don't think i blew the head gasket... no symptoms other than overheating....
 
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