EA288 Cam Issue? '15 GSW

[T4RBoarder]

Hey guys,

Backstory:

As some of you have seen in a couple posts my car has been at my local dealer for over a month now waiting on a replacement water pump/full timing belt service after the other unit started leaking at ~90k miles (original? unknown). After being told the water pump was on "intergalactic backorder" for weeks I checked with another dealer who said they were readily available, the pump magically appeared the day after I left a VM with the manager questioning them if they had the right Part #/availabilty.


Anyway, I was told the car would be done today but I just got off the phone with the service manager where he told me that one of my cam lobes slipped and I need a new cam (covered by warranty) after the tech couldn't get the timing right and the car had a CEL. He also told me they've seen this before on these TDIs??

Note: before dropping the car off I had NO drivability issues, no CEL, nothing besides it pissing coolant all over the ground.

What I'm trying to figure out is if:
1) This is truly an issue with these motors (I've never heard of it)?
2) If something rare happened by sitting for a month?
3) If the tech really just FUBAR'd the timing and screwed up the cam and they're trying to blame something else for warranty coverage?

Any thoughts?

 

[Lightflyer1]

Probably number 3. Never heard of their excuse or this issue before now.

 

[turbobrick240]

Yeah, sounds like #3. The tech probably didn't pray adequately during his "paint and pray" timing belt technique.

 

[ticaf]

yet another reason to DIY the timing belt or use an independant shop.
I can't believe you have been waiting for over a month for a common routine service such as timing belt/water pump replacement. it seems unreal.

 

[T4RBoarder]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is leaning towards #3 too.

Ticaf, I would have loved to do it myself or an indy but it went to the dealer for warranty purposes (TDI and third party).

I kept calling every few days but they swore the pump was on backorder. I finally gave another local dealer a call, gave them my VIN, and they came back saying they had a pump in stock and was readily available. I then called the service manager, left a message with my concern that they were not ordering the right part, was informed my SA was fired, and then magically the pump came in the next day.

 

[bmwM5power]

one of my cam lobes slipped and I need a new cam (covered by warranty)

i feel the "new cam" would be the least of your troubles, of course it was fubared

 

[ticaf]

i feel the "new cam" would be the least of your troubles, of course it was fubared

Any chance the cam would be sacrifical on the EA288 engine ? like the cam would break rather than the valves ?

 

[bmwM5power]

Any chance the cam would be sacrifical on the EA288 engine ? like the cam would break rather than the valves ?

hard to tell, but if the cam brakes there is usually damage to the valves, only compression test will reveal more

 

[T4RBoarder]

Well the car is back, so far everything seeeems ok but I've only personally put about 50 miles on it. They put some miles on it themselves as well.

The RO states "removed timing cover & ensured crank, cam, and injection pump were timed correctly. suspect damaged camshaft, removed valve cover, found broken rocker arms & cam lobes out of phase. camshafts faulty and require replacement"

I'm still not buying that this was just a failure of my car but at this point I can't argue anything given they (VW or Dealer) covered it. It drives as well as it did when I dropped it off.

I did call VWoA and made a ticket regarding this issue. They have no record of the repair/issue from the dealer but they noted where it was at and the concern I had.

 

[turbobrick240]

Any chance the cam would be sacrifical on the EA288 engine ? like the cam would break rather than the valves ?

No, zero chance of that, lol. It's just cheaper to press on the cam lobes than to machine a more durable one piece unit.

 

[740GLE]

I wonder if similar issues to this guy?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=504417

yeah its a Gen2 vs Gen3 but AFAIK cam/valve train is pretty darn close.

 

[oilhammer]

That tech botched the job.

 

[740GLE]

That tech botched the job.

You look again? Looks like the rockers had issues without any valves making contact.

 

[greengeeker]

You look again? Looks like the rockers had issues without any valves making contact.

On the CRs the valves contacting the pistons breaks the rockers and more than likely bends the valves. The broken rocker bits get jammed between the head and the still rotating camshaft which then spins the lobes on the camshaft. It is an expensive endeavor to have a TB failure on the CR motors!

For the PO I would be curious to know how this whole thing was documented and warrantied. If you did have a bent valve it is only a matter of time before it breaks off and takes out the motor. And NO a compression test won't reveal a bent valve.

 

[T4RBoarder]

I wonder if similar issues to this guy?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=504417

yeah its a Gen2 vs Gen3 but AFAIK cam/valve train is pretty darn close.

740, it seems very close to how they described it.

greengeeker, the only documentation I have is on the RO where it says "WARRANTY" under all the pricing lines.

I spoke with customer care and they told me they have no way to see what a dealer submits or gets approved for warranty claims. If there is a place I can call to find out that information I would love to be able to.

Update for my car...it's been back twice for oil leaks since picking it up. First was the day after I picked it up and I realized there was a pool underneath, they kept it overnight and called me the next day to tell me that it was residual and there was no leak. I got it home and it sat for a few hours until I went out and found another puddle. I popped the engine cover and it took me all of 30 seconds to figure out where at least one leak was (between the cam assy and head, see video). I took it back and personally showed the manager and the tech, they've had it since. (dropped it off on the morning of the 13th)

https://youtu.be/MEWRLvkjNNk

At this point I have very little confidence in this dealer but I feel like I have my privates in a vice cause if I go anywhere else I'm going to get charged for repair if they can't claim it as warranty. VWoA has been zero help besides telling me the basics of the TDI warranty.

edit: I apologize that the video is portrait, rookie mistake.

 

[ticaf]

sorry to hear about your nightmare of a dealer.

Dealer is funny about residual oil that will pool... a drop or two maybe, but still, don't they wipe everything clean.

From what I see in the manual, the camshaft housing is installed on the head using sealant. So it is a very meticulous job, sealant need to be not expired, all surfaces should be super clean. With the VW sealant there is only a 5 min window to install, wait 30 min to tighten. THEN another 30 mins for things to settle before starting engine. And THEN AGAIN, set the oil pressure pump to high pressure setting for 600 miles for proper break-in.

So I guess the tech at the dealership botched that as well (or maybe high internal pressure ?). I can't blame him, he must already be under pressure from the first fiasco. Unless VW warranty is really paying, there are loosing money. And now, they will have to redo everything a second time, timing belt as well!

At this point, let them redo everything again, insist they take their time, and they should give you a complimentary loaner. Also I suspect the belly pan (aka noise insulation) must be soaked in oil, as well as the oil pan shroud. they should replace those too.

 

[pedroYUL]

Oh boy! What a nightmare!!!

Please disclose this dealer's name, so others don't suffer the same fate. What an incompetent bunch.

 

[turbobrick240]

That sucks. I'd sell/trade in the car once they get it fixed. It'll probably drop a valve the day the warranty runs out.

 

[oilhammer]

Yeah, they probably had the same butcher that tooefed the timing belt job take the engine apart. If you cannot do a simple belt properly, you cannot possibly be expected to take half the engine apart and put it back together.

This sucks, sorry for your experience. Now you know why threads like this exist:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=212873

And sadly, still relevant today.

 

[ticaf]

That sucks. I'd sell/trade in the car once they get it fixed. It'll probably drop a valve the day the warranty runs out.

well, I can see in the near future someone posted on tdiclub something like this: "just bought a TDI, drove off, engine blew right away!"

Maybe it is not too late to demand that the dealership inspect the head/valves/pistons and document it (pics). Alternatively, you can ask the dealership for a in writing warranty of the complete engine for 1 year, 20000 miles or something like that. then drive the car hard to make sure there is no problem.

 

[turbobrick240]

well, I can see in the near future someone posted on tdiclub something like this: "just bought a TDI, drove off, engine blew right away!"
Maybe it is not too late to demand that the dealership inspect the head/valves/pistons and document it (pics). Alternatively, you can ask the dealership for a in writing warranty of the complete engine for 1 year, 20000 miles or something like that. then drive the car hard to make sure there is no problem.

That would suck too, but that's the risk you take when buying used cars.

Aren't most warranties "in writing"? I'd be pretty suspicious of a handshake warranty!

 

[T4RBoarder]

sorry to hear about your nightmare of a dealer.
Dealer is funny about residual oil that will pool... a drop or two maybe, but still, don't they wipe everything clean.
From what I see in the manual, the camshaft housing is installed on the head using sealant. So it is a very meticulous job, sealant need to be not expired, all surfaces should be super clean. With the VW sealant there is only a 5 min window to install, wait 30 min to tighten. THEN another 30 mins for things to settle before starting engine. And THEN AGAIN, set the oil pressure pump to high pressure setting for 600 miles for proper break-in.
So I guess the tech at the dealership botched that as well (or maybe high internal pressure ?). I can't blame him, he must already be under pressure from the first fiasco. Unless VW warranty is really paying, there are loosing money. And now, they will have to redo everything a second time, timing belt as well!
At this point, let them redo everything again, insist they take their time, and they should give you a complimentary loaner. Also I suspect the belly pan (aka noise insulation) must be soaked in oil, as well as the oil pan shroud. they should replace those too.

They have been providing me a free loaner questions asked since week 1 into waiting for the water pump. I'm hoping they take their time this time around, especially given the amount of labor involved for doing this all again, when I spoke to them last week they were waiting on replacement single use parts for the cam.

Admittedly you guys are really making me afraid of my own car at this point, more so than I was already given all this I'd be hard pressed to get out as much as I have in it at this point given the current market and how much I have driven since purchase.

I'd hope if it did drop a valve that would be covered by the TDI warranty? Either way from this point on unless it's leaking oil again I'm going to try my best to use another dealer if I have to.

 

[Mattyoctavia]

So sorry your experiencing this grief. Dealerships are a funny breed. Recently left a vw dealer myself as I didn't agree with their way of working.
It certainly sounds as though they didn't time the engine correctly and immediately started it and smashed the valves. I personally haven't seen any problems with these motors spinning cam lobes.
Id certainly be demanding a written warranty on the complete engine for atleast 1 year. Here in the UK the customer is within their rights to have the car inspected at vw technical centre in Milton Keynes. Perhaps vw America have a similar centre yiu could call on?

 

[T4RBoarder]

So sorry your experiencing this grief. Dealerships are a funny breed. Recently left a vw dealer myself as I didn't agree with their way of working.
It certainly sounds as though they didn't time the engine correctly and immediately started it and smashed the valves. I personally haven't seen any problems with these motors spinning cam lobes.
Id certainly be demanding a written warranty on the complete engine for atleast 1 year. Here in the UK the customer is within their rights to have the car inspected at vw technical centre in Milton Keynes. Perhaps vw America have a similar centre yiu could call on?

Reviving an old thread and continuing this saga. I currently have my car at a DIFFERENT dealer getting my crank seal replaced (TDI warranty) and they just called to inform me of two things:
1) the sprockets used to lock the HPFP on the timing belt are damaged from previous work
2) the cam assembly is leaking and the wrong spec'd sealant was used (sealant for Gassers)

I'm past the 12/12 warranty but now in a waiting game to see if VWoA will cover it (likely not) or if I'm going to have to go to bat at the previous dealer.

 

[T4RBoarder]

Update 2/1: VWoA put it back on the original dealer due to workmanship, currently in contact with them. They also found needle bearings in the oil pan from the previous cam repair as well. According to VW warranty there shouldn't be any risk/damage but I'm not convinced, they had to get down there somehow.

 

[740GLE]

Well now you know which dealer to avoid going forward.

 

[greengeeker]

Update 2/1: VWoA put it back on the original dealer due to workmanship, currently in contact with them. They also found needle bearings in the oil pan from the previous cam repair as well. According to VW warranty there shouldn't be any risk/damage but I'm not convinced, they had to get down there somehow.

The needle bearings are from the blown up rockers. Hopefully the original dealership replaced your head entirely.

 

[mopower]

This is a bummer. I hope they get you squared away.

This is also the reason TDI club became so popular back in the day. Dealers have been botching TDI maintenance since 1996 and haven't gotten any better. TDIclub keeps a list of trusted mechanics (many are no more or don't work on the CR's) that knew how to work on them.