EA288 - A diesel way forward?

andyrooski17

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...
Buy back will also include a cash payment. Fix will include a cash payout. VW paperwork listed the numbers. For me, buy out - $27,000 + $6700 cash. I'll believe that when I see it.
...
This is not right. The ca. $27,000 will be the whole buyback value (pre-scandal value plus compensation). If you only do the fix, then you only get the ~$6700 cash compensation.
 

GWbiker

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Great. Now put it in a wagon/CUV with a stick and I'll have a long look.
Knowing GM from past experiences, greedy GM probably will load the Cruze sedan with big $$$ options and price it in the mid to upper $30K.....:(
 

GWbiker

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This is not right. The ca. $27,000 will be the whole buyback value (pre-scandal value plus compensation). If you only do the fix, then you only get the ~$6700 cash compensation.
I agree. Didn't seem right and I questioned it several times......but the numbers for my '15 Golf TDI S were listed on paper.

Yes, if you do only the fix, then a high of $6700 would come my way...plus the fix, of course.

Any one with more info around?????
 

J.R.

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Knowing GM from past experiences, greedy GM probably will load the Cruze sedan with big $$$ options and price it in the mid to upper $30K.....:(
I don't really see them offering a manual or a wagon and certainly not a manual CUV so I have little 'worry' about buying from them anyway :p

It's either a GSW TDI for me if/when VW starts selling them or a tough call between a Subie Outback and a Mazda 3 Sport based on presently available vehicles.
 

andyrooski17

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I agree. Didn't seem right and I questioned it several times......but the numbers for my '15 Golf TDI S were listed on paper.

Yes, if you do only the fix, then a high of $6700 would come my way...plus the fix, of course.

Any one with more info around?????
I've read all (well, almost) the settlement documents. It's pretty explicit. Check out here.

Page 2 has a blue box "Option 1, Sell your car back to VW plus a cash payment for a combined total of: "

You can do the full calculation for yourself with one of the other documents, or at this point, enter your claim info into the claims website (Google it) and it should spit out your exact numbers.
 

panda

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I hate to pull the "I told you so" card, but there it is:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160802/RETAIL03/160809957/

Straight from GM. Expect to see VW pivot on their previous statements of putting diesel in the back seat of their product line-up if GM meets their sales goals.
Good luck with that ever happening. BIG cars and BIG trucks are back and it's all due to the low gas prices. The people active on this site love diesels, hell I have 3 diesel vehicles and 3 other pieces of diesel equipment. But as much as it pains me to say it I think the sun is setting on the diesel market and I would be surprised to ever see another model year of diesels in the VW lineup. At this point I'm pretty sure my 2015 GSW is going back, EA288 and all regardless of the fix details.
 

Matt927

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several
My gut feeling and opinion has been no more small diesels from VW in North America.

I hope to be proven wrong.
 

GWbiker

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My gut feeling and opinion has been no more small diesels from VW in North America.

I hope to be proven wrong.
There is a need among long distance commuters (salesmen) for a fuel efficient long lasting medium size motor vehicle. Turbo Diesel fits that need.

If GM goes ahead with their Cruze TDI, VW may also introduce a cleaner TDI to compete.

FYI, VW already has the Jetta Hybrid for sale. EPA highway mileage of 44MPG.
 

squeegee_boy

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Dec 9, 2003
Location
Denali, AK
There is a need among long distance commuters (salesmen) for a fuel efficient long lasting medium size motor vehicle. Turbo Diesel fits that need.

If GM goes ahead with their Cruze TDI, VW may also introduce a cleaner TDI to compete.

FYI, VW already has the Jetta Hybrid for sale. EPA highway mileage of 44MPG.
Jetta Hybrid has been dropped for the 2017 MY. Lack of sales/interest.
 

charley654

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Central Texas
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Yeap... hybrids take a beating on resale/trade-in, because the condition of the very expensive rechargeable battery can not be easily checked. At least not by the appraising sales person. So they may appraise on the low side.
Same thing happened to our Honda hybrid, it had 100,000 miles.
 

charley654

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Central Texas
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2015 GSW S DSG
Further more...
Right now with fuel prices, and newer efficient direct injected gasoline engine fuel economy coming close being on par. Specially when the initial extra expense $$ of a diesel engine option- it would take a long time to break even on fuel cost over the years. If you have costco near by, gasoline is 4% discounted and where I am - diesel is not an option to purchase at Costco.
The only thing diesel have going for it is power/grunt and fuel economy.
Cons are: complexity of modern diesel system, cost of diesel fuel often higher than gasoline. Initial purchase higher for diesel engine option.
I just came back from Europe, every other car is diesel, and exhaust pollution is horrible near major road ways or in busy cities. Much worse than in US cities- at least using my own nose as an calibrated gauge.
 

MrShip

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Canada
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Further more...
Right now with fuel prices, and newer efficient direct injected gasoline engine fuel economy coming close being on par. Specially when the initial extra expense $$ of a diesel engine option- it would take a long time to break even on fuel cost over the years. If you have costco near by, gasoline is 4% discounted and where I am - diesel is not an option to purchase at Costco.
The only thing diesel have going for it is power/grunt and fuel economy.
I think it depends on where you're located and what your driving habits are. Right now around Ottawa, diesel is often 7c/L cheaper than 87. This changes in the winter, but the price is still within a few cents of RUG. In Texas, I completely understand. I was there a month ago, and RUG was often cheaper than D2.

For Canada the price difference between gas and diesel engines was about $2k.

[Lots of math ahead]
Statscan fuel cost averages (July 2015 - June 2016):
RUG: $0.998/L
D2: $0.966/L
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/econ152g-eng.htm

I'm currently averaging 3600km/month.
My current consumption is 6.3L/100km lifetime (about 1L/100km above Fuelly average for 2015).
This leads to an average monthy fuel cost of: $219/month

With an equivalent Corolla or Mazda 3:
Fuelly consumption is 7.2L/100km.
I'll use 8.2L/100km to better match my driving habits compared to Fuelly.
Gas equivalent average montly fuel cost: $294/month :eek:

Maintenance wise, they're relatively close (excluding DSG). Considering the Golf's maintenance interval is about double of a gas equivalent. I'd think the $900/year I'm saving in fuel would easily cover the difference in maintenance. Heck, this'd cover the engine difference as well within a few years. :cool:

VW Dealer:
15k km Service - $250.32
30k km Service - $539.11
60k km Service - ??? + DSG ???
...Repeat until...
195k km Service - Timing belt (Estimated $1500 or so)

When I bought my car, I roughly estimated the 5 year maintenance cost to be around $7000 (at the dealer, no missed optional services, 200k km on the clock). I'm also not counting DPF replacement, though I'll factor that into the 10 year cost of the car based on my driving mileage (500k km/310k miles). Breakdowns are also not factored in, but I'd expect the cost of them to be greater than on an equivalent Mazda/Toyota.

Mazda:
8k km Service - $130ish + Tire rotation (extra)
24k km Service - 8k service + brake inspection
40k km Service - 8k service + Cabin air filter
...
https://www.mazda.ca/globalassets/en/pdf/maintenance/mazda3maintenance.pdf

I'll take a better look at the Mazda service costs next time my Miata needs a part. :D

Insurance also varies wildly, my golf was $10/month less than a corolla or mazda 3.

Bottom line, diesel is still a more economical choice depending on location and driving habits :)
 

GWbiker

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Arizona
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Bottom line, diesel is still a more economical choice depending on location and driving habits :)
Indeed. The "Oil motor" give most bang for the buck with highest BTU combustion over gasoline or alcohol.

And, there's no huge lead battery to contend with......:D
 

Shife

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Michigan
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Indeed. The "Oil motor" give most bang for the buck with highest BTU combustion over gasoline or alcohol.

And, there's no huge lead battery to contend with......:D
Combine that with the fact that the same expensive after-treatment exhaust systems that diesel engines have had to contend with are coming to gas engines. The idea that diesel is dead is just stupid.
 

panda

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Emissions warranty extension?

Good luck with that ever happening. BIG cars and BIG trucks are back and it's all due to the low gas prices. The people active on this site love diesels, hell I have 3 diesel vehicles and 3 other pieces of diesel equipment. But as much as it pains me to say it I think the sun is setting on the diesel market and I would be surprised to ever see another model year of diesels in the VW lineup. At this point I'm pretty sure my 2015 GSW is going back, EA288 and all regardless of the fix details.
After reviewing the offer from VW I'm reversing myself on this and keeping my 2015 GSW, at least for now. This is mostly due to the value VW is using for the '15s.

I do like the emissions warranty extension. Anyone else have any thoughts on this warranty and what it will or won't cover?
 

charley654

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Central Texas
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I have a hard time deciding what to do with my 2015 GSW.
I absolutely love the car. I am on the mission to find a suitable replacement, but any car I have test driven does not come close to power, handling and fuel efficiency the GWS have. But want to turn it becauseI don't think I will ever get equal money of VW offer- for the car- trade or sell. Future of diesel cars in this country questionable.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Do nothing. Just drive it. Consider taking the fix in a year or two if it's appealing. Ignore the money. Cars are an expense. Not worth driving something you don't like just to save a few dollars if you enjoy and can afford what you have.
 

ZippyNH

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Southern NH
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I have a hard time deciding what to do with my 2015 GSW.
I absolutely love the car. I am on the mission to find a suitable replacement, but any car I have test driven does not come close to power, handling and fuel efficiency the GWS have. But want to turn it becauseI don't think I will ever get equal money of VW offer- for the car- trade or sell. Future of diesel cars in this country questionable.
Most of us are guessing the ea-288 will be minimally impacted....since the buyback offer is pretty low on the 2015, it feels like a push to do a simple fix for these motors, take the $$, and keep driving.heck...they might go up In value a bit...
All the info says the changes to the ea288 are Minor...a couple sensors...they are so close too meeting the specs, it is more of a cover their azz types of thing...
 

panda

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Most of us are guessing the ea-288 will be minimally impacted....since the buyback offer is pretty low on the 2015, it feels like a push to do a simple fix for these motors, take the $$, and keep driving.heck...they might go up In value a bit...
All the info says the changes to the ea288 are Minor...a couple sensors...they are so close too meeting the specs, it is more of a cover their azz types of thing...
Agreed, the emission's warranty extension sealed the deal for me for my 2015 GSW. If the fix neuters the performance and mileage numbers, the trade in value two years out is unlikely to have taken as big a hit as they are calculating for EA-288 buybacks now.
 

panda

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I know there are lot's of VW's in Europe with the EA-288 but in the US it looks like 2015 may be last year. Anyone know what the total number is for the EA-288 in the US?
 

J.R.

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Vancouver
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2017 Sportwagon TDI?
I know there are lot's of VW's in Europe with the EA-288 but in the US it looks like 2015 may be last year. Anyone know what the total number is for the EA-288 in the US?
Yeah... it's not looking good :( Mazda 3 Sport GT with the 2.5L might just be my next car now.
 

Larry@FixMyVW

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Atlanta
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2015 GSW 6MT
I know there are lot's of VW's in Europe with the EA-288 but in the US it looks like 2015 may be last year. Anyone know what the total number is for the EA-288 in the US?
I'm also very curious about this. I thought only the S model Sportwagens were available with the 6spd, SE, SEL received DSG. I'm definitely keeping my 6 speed Sportwagen!
 

panda

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I wonder what's up with the EA-288 emission "fix"? Like many others I've received my offer letter for my intention to fix but the schedule is still up in the air. The 2015's understandably seem to be a little lost in the current process. If the EA-288 fix involves adding DEF every say 5,000 miles this could be a problem. It wouldn't bother most reading this page, we do it at home anyway. Even so it could be an issue for those owner's relying on the dealer.
 

charley654

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With the latest news of VW completely pulling out the diesel from the US and focusing towards electric hybrids, the future of diesel is lost.
If you want to own the last of the best diesel= classic, keep it.
I love mine and had 4 or so VW TDIs, all trouble free.
But this time I am letting it go.
 

dubStrom

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https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-cheat-in-tests-and-can-it-fix-affected-cars/

This is a good, and fairly short read!!
But this is WHY i am not as worried about the SCR/DEF equipped cars...
That article sums up the transition to SCR. Inevitable to comply with emissions standards. Yes, SCR fixes the problem, but...

I will never forgive the reckless driver that destroyed my 2014 JSW and sent me to the emergency room. The combination of no SCR, and the "adaptive emissions management" (EPA workaround) resulted in a nice balance of excellent low/mid torque AND really great mpg, bone stock. And overall, emissions were not bad.

Sure, you can get that performance out of an older TDI, but not with the other improvements in trim, suspension (agility), more room (and range!), and comfort features (factory bluetooth and voice commands!). I like my 2015 GSW, but the 2014 was just a better car.

The added complexity and performance hit of the SCR really just puts diesel cars on par with TSI in performance and value. Definitely for smaller vehicles, where loss of range, storage space, and overall cost renders the diesel option untenable. It is no wonder that VW will not sell them in NA anymore. And, soon it won't make sense to sell them at all as emissions standards that include NOx restrictions expand throughout the world.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. I feel just the opposite: my '15 GSW is a far nicer car than my '12 Golf. The Golf in stock form had significant turbo lag at low revs, risk of intercooler icing, poor FE, harsh ride with stock wheels and tires, and lots of rattles. The '15 is significantly better in all those areas. Only think I miss is the cloth seats in the '12.
 

dubStrom

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2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), NEW 2015 GSW/DSG and an '07 Ram 6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel quad-cab Laramie 4x4 p'up
I did not notice turbo lag in the '14 JSW, and improvements in the HPFP and other more minor things were addressed in that last year of the MKVI TDI wagon. It was a good time to buy a JSW.

It had more room to stash things in the glove compartment, under the front seats, and in the hatch area. All of that adds up...gone. And the smaller fuel tank is instantly noticeable when you drive out the first tank. I owned the JSW for more than two years when the accident totaled it, and it was just really beginning to plateau in fuel economy, pushing 700 miles per tank. It was always easily more than 40mpg in the city, even though I was using that torque to get up to speed. I was anxious to take it on the road again but never got the chance.

I guess I will have to wait to see how the GSW does. It will take a couple of years. But the range will never be the same unless I eventually do a retrofit larger tank installation and SCR delete (if that is even possible!).
 
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