E-Brake won't turn off running lights

[Stab]

This is NOT a DRL debate!!
I have searched the forums for the answer but could not find THIS problem.

I just replaced the battery in my 03 Jetta TDI & it's cold here now so I want to be able to turn the DRLs off with the E-brake application like it used to do. I just disassemibled the e-brake switch under the lever inside the car and reassembled. It turns the brake light on & off in the dash as intended BUT, the running lights are on while trying to start the car WITH the E-brake ON and the dash light indicates it is on. I DO NOT want to disable the DRL. I just want to shut them off with the E-brake while starting.

I apologize if this has been covered but, I could not find it!

 

[BobnOH]

Whatever senses the brake handle isn't communicating with the car?

 

[CopaMundial]

I just want to shut them off with the E-brake while starting.

Even if you lights were on (e-brake not applied, or switch not working, etc) then the headlights (and all other accessories) should still turn off while starting. If they are not then you have a problem with your load reduction relay.

 

[Lug_Nut]

See if the DRL relay (171?) is stuck in the closed contact position. The hand brake simply cuts power to the coil and the internal spring is supposed to open the contacts when there's no electromagnetic coil force to overpower the spring and close the contacts. If the spring is broken, or high current has 'welded' the contacts shut, then the DRL would be on regardless of the handbrake electric circuit state.

 

[CopaMundial]

I believe the location of the relay Lug Nut mentioned is highlighted in yellow below.
Load reduction relay location is highlighted in blue, in case your accessories are not turning off when starting

 

[jettawreck]

Even if you lights were on (e-brake not applied, or switch not working, etc) then the headlights (and all other accessories) should still turn off while starting. If they are not then you have a problem with your load reduction relay.

Yes, but it's nice to have them off during pre-glow period. Especially when/if you live where it gets really cold and when the glow time is VCDS extended, it can be quite a while. I always set the brake to disable the headlights and also turn off all the electrical loads I can (seat heaters, rear defrost, cabin blower fan, etc) before starting the glow cycle when its cold out.
But, you are correct about these things being off during the cranking itself.

 

[jettawreck]

See if the DRL relay (171?) is stuck in the closed contact position. The hand brake simply cuts power to the coil and the internal spring is supposed to open the contacts when there's no electromagnetic coil force to overpower the spring and close the contacts. If the spring is broken, or high current has 'welded' the contacts shut, then the DRL would be on regardless of the handbrake electric circuit state.

Excellent information.

 

[Stab]

Found it, awesome! Thanks everyone for the help!!

It's not a problem running without the #173 relay until I get another is it?

 

[aircooledkid]

Check all you fuses first. I blew one when working on the AC system for my uncles 01 golf. I could not get the DRL's off with the park brake engaged. Cant remember which one, but it fed voltage to the high pressure switch. Worth a shot.

 

[Stab]

Ok, found the 173 relay and replaced because of burnt points inside. Didn't solve the problem. Checked all the fuses while checking parasitic draw on the battery. All fuses good. It looks like the 173 relay trips when a ground is interduced to the circuit. Via the emergency brake switch....Is this correct? If so maybe I have a ground problem but, it activates the brake light in dash when the handle is pulled and released. Any ideas out there?

 

[fosjef67]

I know turning off the DRL with e-brake on the 04s uses the CAN-BUS. I know this because I blew the CAN-BUS fuse when installing an aftermarket radio. I spent an hour trying to program the steering wheel controls, until I realized DRL were on with the e-brake engaged. Replaced the fuse and the DRL went off, and I was able to program my steering wheel controls.

Also just because a fuse looks good, don't assume it is.

 

[yurtesen]

I have the same problem in my 2003 Golf with euro switch. The parking brake (e-brake) light works fine on dash.


The headlights (low beam) come on when euro switch is set to 0 position automatically.When I set to parking lights position, they turn off. This tells me that the 173 relay is probably working?


Did you ever find a solution to this problem?

 

[BobnOH]

OP hasn't posted since 2014. Seems he thought it was relay 173, not verified

 

[yurtesen]

@BobnOH yes thats what I understood also but he said changing 173 did not help.


Funny thing, today I looked at the relay box and there is just space where 173 should be. Yet I have DRL functionality and car is 2003 VW Golf Variant MK4. So how is it wired even? Is TFL from light switch directly wired to headlights? Strange...

 

[wonneber]

I see there are 2 ground wires from the relay.

Pin 1 is to ground.
Pin 3 goes to the parking brake switch and the switch is grounded to shut the lights.
Both grounds seem to go to the same location below the left side of the dash.

I wonder if that ground was bad if power could back feed leaving the running lights on and possibly blowing the CAN-BUS fuse?

 

[yurtesen]

@wonneber the 173 relay takes running TFL input/output from pins 2/5 and it is isolated from any other grounds and what not. Basically it works as a simple switch.



The rest of the connections are for keeping the switch on unless handbrake is pulled/on when the ignition is turned on.



Also according to the diagram, there are diodes inside the relay ground connections (since it is an electromagnet, it needs them).


But I don't have 173 or I don't know where it is in my car strange...

 

[wonneber]

2 and 5 are the power wires.
Pin 1 is the ground wire.
Pin 3 goes to the parking brake switch and the other side if the switch grounds back at the same point as the other ground, left side of the dash.

I suspect 1 of the diodes is for surge spike suppression from the coil in the relay and the other only lets power go from the dash light go to the parking brake switch for grounding.

 

[eddieleephd]

But I don't have 173 or I don't know where it is in my car strange...

409 I believe it's another substitute for 173 maybe.

53 is starter relay and the one to the right of 409 is load reduction relay. I don't see your 109 relay either. Where is it?

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

 

[yurtesen]

Continuation reference "e" is connected to T17/7 (TFL pin) on E1 and "c" is connected to 56b (low beam). The relay is a normally closed type relay. So unless handbrake is pulled, low beams are on.


Pin 1 is connected to some resistance and diode for dissipating backflow. The picture is not clear but anode of diode is connected to pin 1 which is grounded. Protection diode is here.



Pin 2 is connected to TFL pin of E1



Pin 3 is connected to parking brake switch. When you pull handbrake pin 3 is grounded. This will turn on the dash led, plus activate the electromagnet in the relay, severing the headlight power through pins 2 and 5 by setting switch to open position.


Pin 6 is connected to the dash led.



Pin 8 is power positive from ignition switch, after fuse 5 (7.5A)



If your relay is stuck in closed position, you would get low beam stuck on when TFL pin is powered, regardless of handbrake position.



If pin 3 is not connected, parking brake warning light won't function and relay will be stuck in closed position


If ground 1 is not connected there can be some backflow but it should not damage anything as far as I can tell (perhaps can damage only the 173 coil itself?). You won't get a blown fuse from such a tiny coil.

 

[yurtesen]

409 I believe it's another substitute for 173 maybe.

53 is starter relay and the one to the right of 409 is load reduction relay. I don't see your 109 relay either. Where is it?

See:

http://web.mit.edu/dennis/www/vw/relays.html


Yes, well my car is not exactly a TDI... it is a petrol engine model. So I have 409 and not 109. You can see it from the list in the page above.

 

[eddieleephd]

Makes sense now, still need to look at the circuit involved with fuse 14 and the relay that supplies power to it. Whatever circus is involved with it.

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[yurtesen]

@eddieleephd what about fuse14? Manual says it gets power from "Threaded connection -2- (30) on the relay plate" with a thick red write (6mm2) to fusebox. The output is connected to "Central control module for comfort system, behind instrument panel. left" with a red/black wire (1mm2) to a pin 22 of a terminal with 23 pins (T23/22)


Same thick red wire feeds fuse 238 also apparently. The output is red/yellow wire (1mm2) and connected to "Plus connector (30a). in wiring harness interior" That current track seem to be connected to driver/passenger side door control modules....


Does not seem to be related to headlights?

 

[eddieleephd]

You said that when you pulled that fuse the lights were able to be controlled correctly by the brake switch, therefore, some circuit that's getting power from that fuse has a fault in it causing the issue. Could be the relay ahead of it which is unlikely. So you need to find out what gets power there and run those circuits down to find the fault.

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[yurtesen]

You said that when you pulled that fuse the lights were able to be controlled correctly by the brake switch, therefore, some circuit that's getting power from that fuse has a fault in it causing the issue. Could be the relay ahead of it which is unlikely. So you need to find out what gets power there and run those circuits down to find the fault

No, I did not say anything like that. Also MK4 does not have CAN bus AFAIK? (or at least it is very limited I think).



It looks like it is on MK5 where the DRL is controlled via central electronics module.


fosjef67 mentioned a CAN bus fuse but he didn't mention a fuse number?


Anyway, it seems unrelated. I simply do not see, to have relay 173 and my car does not have central electronics module as far as I remember

 

[leviathan0617]

Check all you fuses first. I blew one when working on the AC system for my uncles 01 golf. I could not get the DRL's off with the park brake engaged. Cant remember which one, but it fed voltage to the high pressure switch. Worth a shot.

Can i get more info what you did to fix this?

 

[csstevej]

You realize that he posted this 7 years ago?

 

[leviathan0617]

You realize that he posted this 7 years ago?

Can't win the lottery without playing.