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Dyno at the Fest

eschady

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2003 Jetta GL Black w/gray int.
It is not yet official, but we are very close to working out a deal to have a dyno at the Fest. Pricing and the hours of operation have yet to be determined, but prices should be very reasonable as Frank Boucher VW, the 2005 TDIFest Title Sponsor, will be picking up part of the tab.

We are hoping to have the Dyno available from roughly 8-8 on Saturday, and possible again for several hours on Sunday morning (for those who get chipped in between it'll be a great opportunity to do a before and after measurement!). We are still working out the pricing, but we hope that it will be roughly $25-30 for 2 pulls on the dyno.

We will update with more information as soon as it is confirmed.

Make sure to stop by and see Sean with Frank Boucher at the Fest and thank them for attending!
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I'm in for a dyno! Are you going to put a list together of folks that are interested?
 

eschady

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2003 Jetta GL Black w/gray int.
We may have to as we will probably have limit the number of vehicles. So far the negotiations are for 50 vehicles, but we will update as soon as we have finalized a deal.
 

jachady

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Location
Fort Atkinson, WI
TDI
auto dealer
Now it is official, Frank Boucher VW out of Franklin is sponsoring the dyno at the fest. Because of this we are able to offer the dyno pulls at an extremely reduced rate. The dyno will run for at least eight hours, cars running during this time will get their dyno pull for $20.00. Cars running after the eight hour time period will be charged $40.00. This is the price for registered attendees. The price for non registered attendees will be $50.00. To get a certificate to get your run, you will need to see Sean at the Town Hall by the vendors. The cars need to be run in the order the certificates are being handed out, so get there early to prepare.
 

jachady

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Location
Fort Atkinson, WI
TDI
auto dealer
Yes, and I forgot to mention Chris is from Fast Enough Performance out of Lexington, KY. They specialize in Audi and VW so they are the perfect people to have running the dyno.
 

eschady

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2003 Jetta GL Black w/gray int.
John mentioned after the Fest that the Dyno scores all need a slight adjustment. I guess for quick turn around, the dyno guys used a standard number rather than reprogramming at each run. From what John said, automatics horsepower would be about 5% higher, and manuals would be 15% higher. I'm sure he'll chime in and explain it.
 

KERMA

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 23, 2001
Location
here
TDI
99 beetle and 04 jetta
"Dyno Dynamics" dynos suck. You can make them say whatever you want them to say. In this case, it was VERY VERY LOW. At least everyone had the same settings, so it was an apples to apples comparo. I'd say it's more like a 30% or more adjustment if you want good numbers.
 

eschady

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2003 Jetta GL Black w/gray int.
Kerma, tell us how you really feel
. I don't know much about dynos, but I think the 5-15% adjustment factor makes sense. Most stock TDI's were pulling 80-85 horsepower prior to the adjustment. Like you said, atleast it was the same for everyone (and you did win the horsepower competition!).
 

truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
Just before me, they ran the 9-3D with -15% correction factor vs the -30% they did for the rest of us. His car dynoed at 117.4 hp- stated factory hp is 125.
I did a before and after RC2 on my '03JW 5M. I have b203s and OMI. Before chipping it came in at 88.5hp and 170tq. After chipping, it measured 114.8hp and 240tq. For my purpose, it was beneficial.
To make adjustments for each car would have required 2 dynos and more $. I understand why they ran it like they did. I thought the organizers and volunteers did a gtreat job putting the Fest together.
 

jachady

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Location
Fort Atkinson, WI
TDI
auto dealer
truman is correct, when I talked to Chris he said he ran the dyno at a 30% correction because we wanted the process to be as fast as possible. It would have taken too long to change the computer readings for the automatics/sticks and so on. Our biggest thing with having the dyno is so that people could see instant results of their mods. And also for a baseline of what people have. As per the comment by Kerma, we could have had ten dynos there, and they all would have had different numbers. It is true that for guys seeking the ultimate performance you need consistancy so they need to use the same dyno for every run, but for most at the fest just having an idea of where their car was at was good enough.

And besides, the most fun was watching the clouds of diesel smoke anyway - wasn't it.
 

jettafock

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Location
Catonsville, MD
TDI
2004 Jetta GLS TDI auto, platinum gray, ESP
There was an stock 04 Jetta auto that dynoed at 94hp and mine dynoed at 105hp. I dont think so. I will be getting real dyno numbers on Oct 15th at the NE Dyno Day. I will let you guys know how off the dyno was. Also, at last years NE DD I dynoed at 137hp with a lesser chip then I am at now.
 

eschady

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2003 Jetta GL Black w/gray int.
Well, what can we say, we tried to offer something that we thought people would like. We know it wasn't perfect, but you should be able to draw comparisons between the different vehicles run throughout the weekend. Let me know the next time someone gets 2 dyno runs for $20! Like John said, MOST of us just wanted an indication of our horsepower compared to others. For people like Kerma, RallyVW, etc., we understand how you would want a more accurate numbers. For anyone who thinks they can do better, here you go: 2006 TDIFest Proposals.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Although I agree the numbers were a bit off I was glad to get my A3 dyno'd and learned from the results. I have a RC2/3 switchable chip and it made about 115 HP both times (which makes sense) but the midrange was significantly stronger (about 10 HP) with RC3. Tons of torque, too--240+.

This gave me data that I can use to continue to mod my car. I want a boost gauge to help keep max boost at higher RPMs and I put the IQ up to about 5.2 over the weekend, which allows the car to rev much better.

So thanks for the Dyno. If it were a competition for best HP then I'd be less happy. But IMO it was $20 well spent.
 

truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
I have never even been near a dyno, so for me to have that experience was a real plus. I imagine there were many others who felt the same way. I thought the guys running the dyno worked very hard to try and accommodate as many people as possible. Thanks for making it available.
 

newguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2000
Location
Minnneapolis MN
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE 6M White
All the correction factors aside, the thing I was looking for I got - a before and after on both of my cars. My stock 05 Jetta PD100 with a manual did 85HP/175ftlb and with a RC2 installed I did 125HP/250ftlb. So not only did I feel the difference but I got to see it. On my Passat wagon it was hard to get a good baseline because the auto wanted to kick down even in the tiptronic mode. After the chip and a vag-com tune on the trans I got a good 4th gear run out of the passat and it netted 127HP/250ftlb with a RC1.

For the $$$ that I spent I think it was worthwhile even if the ACTUAL numbers weren't totally accurate.

Thanks!
 

jettafock

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Location
Catonsville, MD
TDI
2004 Jetta GLS TDI auto, platinum gray, ESP
I'm not complaining. It was only $20 for 2 pulls, not a bad price. Just saying the numbers were not always accurate. And yes, it was fun seeing some of the cars smoke, ie. the rally car.
 

KERMA

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 23, 2001
Location
here
TDI
99 beetle and 04 jetta
Don't get me wrong, the dyno guys did a great job prcessing the large number of cars. I think they said 22 cars before lunch. I thoroughly enjoyed watching the smoke spectacle and listening to the unique sound only these cars make on the dyno. It added a lot to the whole event. For 10 bucks a pull, who can really complain. (besides me...
)
 

TDI_Convert

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Location
N. Central Indiana, USA
TDI
Jetta Wagon 5 sp., 2003, Silver/Grey Int.
I'd like to chime in with a big THANKS! for having the dyno there. It showed me a burble in my car that has yet to be figured out, but it gives me an idea where to go from here. I did see a dyno of a identical car like mine with different injectors and saw a 20 hp difference. I have some work to do!
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
John mentioned after the Fest that the Dyno scores all need a slight adjustment...automatics horsepower would be about 5% higher, and manuals would be 15% higher.
The guesstimated 15% factor makes my 83.4 as tested calculate to nearly 96, or just a shade higher than it has made on the "official NE Dyno-Day" unit on past pulls with that unit. At half the price ($20 for two, versus $60 for three), the 'fest dyno was a great way to compare apples to apples.
 

eschady

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Location
Milton, WI
TDI
2003 Jetta GL Black w/gray int.
For those who did the dyno, I have copies of some of the dyno printouts. I tried to get them out on Sunday, but still have quite a few. We tried our best to figure out what sheet goes with who. Below is a list of WHO WE THINK the sheet is for, and their HP number. If you would like a copy, please contact me and we can arrange to fax, email as pdf, or mail you a copy. These are the only sheets I have:

Name? HP Customer #
S Svard 85.0 1
S svard 104.8 2
D Ellidge 88.5 8
E Pfeffer 105.9 10
S Svard 124.9 14
S Cambria 127.2 15
S Cambria 90.9 16
M Miks 104.7 18
P Fallabeck 79.8 19
E Doris 98.1 20
C Chase 101.5 21
P Noble 115.2 23
J Taro 101.1 24
K Miski 157.5 25 (1.8T)
R Yamry 94.2 26
R Wood 60.7 29
M Barta 103.3 32
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
J Bartlett 83.4 #3
And I'm wondering why I sold my black B4 sedan to M. Barta.
103hp! Add the 15% and it's over 118!! I never saw over 92 when I had it.
It may be much better now that his timing issue has been taken care of, but his pull was in the 60 hp range.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Jon, your car dyno'd at 89 HP IIRC at the DynoDay, but I can't remember if that was on bio or dino. Any changes? I wonder if your car is a good benchmark for dyno calibration.
 

Audi5000TDI

Banned
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Location
CA, Good old USA
TDI
Passat, 1996, Grey
[bold]J Bartlett 83.4 #3
And I'm wondering why I sold my black B4 sedan to M. Barta.
103hp! Add the 15% and it's over 118!! I never saw over 92 when I had it.
It may be much better now that his timing issue has been taken care of, but his pull was in the 60 hp range. [/bold]

Jon is this with the new Sprint 520's that you mentioned in early August to me?

Keep in mind, higher air temps and humidity will cost you horsepower and torque readings from Sept this year versus the snowfest at the NE Dyno days of 2004.

One other question, do you multip[ly by a factor of 1 plus 15% (115%) or divide by a factor of 1 minus 15% (85%) for your horsepower factor at the flywheel?
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I think that M. Barta's name was assigned to someone else's dyno run and that is the reason for the difference between what his pulls actually achieved and the result posted here.
I'm planning on returning to the same dyno I've used in the past (N.E. Dyno-Day thread under north east US heading). The numbers I get on that dyno can be used to corroborate the estimated 15% factor for the 'fest pulls.
The Sprint 520s are in my wagon, not the black sedan I sold to him. Last year I did two pulls in the wagon with B100 and with Bzero for a fuel comparison. This year I hope to pull with B100 to compare (within weather limitations) the change from stock nozzles (last year's B100 data) to the 520s this year.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I had my car dynamometer tested again this past weekend on the same unit I'd used in the past. The vehicle conditions were the same as the 'fest. Weather was obviously different.
The 'fest dyno indicated 83.4 peak hp. The dyno at J&M (see the "dyno day IV" thread in the eastern USA region for details) showed 101.4 peak hp and 184.7 peak torque. Previous results made me believe the J&M unit is actually about 5% high. This is opinion is reinforced by the 'fest dyno techs 15% low factor.
83.4 + 15% = 95.91 hp
101.4 - 5% = 96.33 hp
My opinion is that multiplying the 'fest hp number by 1.15 will give a valid number. You can keep a clear conscience with that amount of "inflation" to the 'fest number.
 

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Location
Versailles, Kentucky
TDI
2015 Audi Q5 TDI, 2000 New Beetle
Actually, for the A3/B4 cars, I believe that a multiplier of 1.17 is dead on. Several other members with these cars reinforce my belief.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I have the Sprint 520 tips on the 220 bar injectors. The ECU is the BK series best suited for the 190 bar injectors not the GQ series better for use with the 200 bar injectors.
 
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