DSG - Still needs work in my opinion

[spiydr]

I'm sure I will get a few responses informing me that I am just not driving it correctly but I have to give my opinion. After spending roughly 3 weeks with the DSG I have a few complaints. And yes, I know what a turbo is, and none of my complaints are a result of turbo lag.

More often then not it seems like it just cant make up its mind. Most of my gripes come from using Sport versus Drive. When in Drive it shifts early and as expected. When in Sport it seems rather clueless when to shift.

1. I would expect if my foot is planted that it should just take off, but instead its sits waiting, for what, I dont know. Then suddenly, like it awoke from a deep slumber, it takes off leaving $20 worth of tire behind me.

2. Then there are many times where I barely depress the pedal yet it wont shift. It screams near 5k RPMs before shifting. Now remember I have barely depressed the pedal the entire time.

3. Of course there is also the bucking that occurs at low rpm's, remind's me of a teenager first learning to drive. I have read that this can be corrected with some software patch?

4. Finally there are the times that unless I depress the pedal all the way it just wont pick up speed as it should. Very frustrating.

I personally believe VW has work to do on the software that runs the DSG. Once dialed in I believe it could be a great transmission, but at the moment I wish I would have just went with the Manual.

Rant over....

 

[JSWTDI09]

Most DSG owners seem to like them after they get to know them. A DSG is not your father's automatic transmission. You can control how and when it shifts, but they do take some getting used to. They are a different beast than anything else you have probably ever driven. Give it some time and get to know it a little better and you might discover that you like it.

Of course, there is also a possibility that there is something wrong with your DSG. Only your dealer will be able to decide this for sure.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[mo_focus]

give it some time, learn how to drive your dsg, your DSG will also learn how you like to drive so you can both work something out

I have a 2010 Golf tdi dsg, that actually wife drives, but i do not use her key. I think the key knows the driver and learns to shift patterns.

DSG is truly an amazing transmission, except when the time comes for servicing

 

[TDiSkater]

Mine was flakey at first. Not sure if I got to know it or it me (supposedly a learning system). Seems to shift exactly where I want when in Sport mode. Are you training it using S? That's what some experts here recommended. Not to say on occasion it doesn't get confused. I just make fun of it and roll on.

 

[rockerdan]

i also felt it was "quirky" in its shifting...never any rhyme or reason , as each takeoff could result differently.

was just another reason for me to search out a manual 6 speed.

Dan

 

[gergg]

A bit different yes, but mine has never reacted like you describe.

 

[jbright]

My DSG has been close to perfect. I paid $250 to get it serviced at 40k. Worth every penny as far as I'm concerned, especially driving mostly in the city. It's a good match for the CR TDI's ample torque.

 

[Mike in Anchorage]

Spiydr, your DSG has a problem. Have it looked into.

 

[JThiessen]

Spiydr, your DSG has a problem. Have it looked into.

I agree. I agree that at times it doesn't seem to want to shift, but I think I have isolated it to when it hasn't warmed up.....maybe...........but 5K?!?! That is NOT right....

Ditto on the low speed bucking though.

 

[BretAZ]

I test drove a DSG first. The salesman was horrible, and knew nothing about VWs. I didn't like the way the DSG felt at all. But then again, the drivers side window was leaking air so back, it was hard for me to pay attention to anything else.

I then drove a manual, and liked it better. So I went with the manual. Now I am having second thoughts, and wondering if I should have given the DSG a closer look. I do drive alot of city, but it doesn't really bother me. Today coming to work, the display said 49 mpg, the highest I have seen on my daily 35 mile commute in the city.

I am going to check out the new Beetle when it arrives next year. If at that point I don't like the manual, I will jump into a DSG Beetle.

 

[chittychittybangbang]

Mine was flakey at first. Not sure if I got to know it or it me (supposedly a learning system). Seems to shift exactly where I want when in Sport mode. Are you training it using S? That's what some experts here recommended. Not to say on occasion it doesn't get confused. I just make fun of it and roll on.

You're a learning system, the DSG is supposdly not. People who have looked at the programming have said that it uses a different shift map in response to input conditions. It can't learn new shift maps. So it adapts but does not learn.

Edit: Learn means new things. The transmission cannot learn new things. It can apply inputs to adjust existing maps.

 

[TDiSkater]

You're a learning system, the DSG is supposdly not. People who have looked at the programming have said that it uses a different shift map in response to input conditions. It can't learn new shift maps. So it adapts but does not learn.

My wife would argue with you on that point.

I thought I'd read in a number of places that it adjusted for driving style. Did I misunderstand what that meant?

Update :
Here is an Internet description for whatever it's worth, but seems to fit what I thought sales guy mentioned to me.

Excerpt from Fortitude... Taken from Wikipedia.
"The actual shift timings are determined by the DSG's Electronic Control Unit, or ECU, which commands a hydro-mechanical unit, and the two units combined are called a "mechatronics" unit. Because the DSGs ECU uses "fuzzy logic", the operation of the DSG is said to be "adaptive"; that is, the DSG will "learn" how the user drives the car, and will progressively tailor the shift points accordingly."

 

[El Dobro]

My wife would argue with you on that point.

I thought I'd read in a number of places that it adjusted for driving style. Did I misunderstand what that meant?

Update :
Here is an Internet description for whatever it's worth, but seems to fit what I thought sales guy mentioned to me.

Excerpt from Fortitude... Taken from Wikipedia.
"The actual shift timings are determined by the DSG's Electronic Control Unit, or ECU, which commands a hydro-mechanical unit, and the two units combined are called a "mechatronics" unit. Because the DSGs ECU uses "fuzzy logic", the operation of the DSG is said to be "adaptive"; that is, the DSG will "learn" how the user drives the car, and will progressively tailor the shift points accordingly."

The DSG adapts to wear, but not driving habits. This was brought up by the VW engineers during the NHTSA investigation of DSG problems.

 

[TDiSkater]

The DSG adapts to wear, but not driving habits. This was brought up by the VW engineers during the NHTSA investigation of DSG problems.

Thanks. I guess I did learn something today!

 

[Elfnmagik]

The DSG adapts to wear.

Now that's an accurate engineering philosophy

 

[BarrieCommuter]

i drove a new ford focus auto today for work and found its new tranny to be pretty ****ty fwiw. tranny shakes and chatters at low rpm, no power in first and second, and really only get power in 3rd. and it feels like it prematurely shifts.

but what do i care? i drive my 6MT home aftwerwards.

 

[The67beast]

Congrats on the new car. I also checked out the 2012 Ford Focus prior to the Jetta and found the cockpit to be almost nauseating. I love technology in cars and it was too much for me.

I didnt even bother with the test drive though, the seats were comfortable and the interior space seems entirely too small (i know its not that much different that the jetta, but perception is 9/10ths).

anyway, congrats again on the new ride. Great Color. my wife wanted beige but we couldnt find a white & beige w/ nav.

 

[DieselNerd]

The only issue I have with my DSG that is a bit frustrating is the "bucking" at low speeds, but I've learned how to drive around it. Basically, just take your foot off the brake and let the car move forward. The only time this doesn't work is if you are on a hill, then the hill control kicks in and you have to give it some throttle.

The bucking mostly happens when you acclerate slowly in a parking lot, then get off the throttle without applying the brakes. It bucks just like a manual transmission would if you didn't push in the clutch. If you gently apply the brake, that seems to disengage the clutch in the DSG and stops the bucking.

The momentary delay that people talk about is easy to get around too. I have simply learned to anticipate it. I push the pedal down earlier than I normally would, then when the car starts to go, BACK OUT of the pedal a bit or you will launch like a bullet from a gun.

Really, the DSG is a different animal. If you think about it, how many people LOVE manual transmissions. But think about all the stuff you have to know to drive one. You have to choose the right gear, modulate the clutch, hold the clutch in at stops (or go to neutral), etc. I guess the case could be made that manual transmissions are just garbage because they require too much from the driver. We all know that's not true. People like manuals because they let you interact with the car.

Same for the DSG. It's not a typical automatic tranny and can't be driven the same as a regular old slushbox.

When I first started driving, I had a manual transmission and I must have stalled it hundreds of times. It wasn't the fault of the car, it was that I didn't know how to properly operate it. Same goes with the DSG. Once you adapt to how it works, it becomes second nature.

 

[spiydr]

I understand your point, but when I buy an automatic I buy it so I don't have to think about it. If I want to interact with my transmission I will get a manual.

The only issue I have with my DSG that is a bit frustrating is the "bucking" at low speeds, but I've learned how to drive around it. Basically, just take your foot off the brake and let the car move forward. The only time this doesn't work is if you are on a hill, then the hill control kicks in and you have to give it some throttle.

The bucking mostly happens when you acclerate slowly in a parking lot, then get off the throttle without applying the brakes. It bucks just like a manual transmission would if you didn't push in the clutch. If you gently apply the brake, that seems to disengage the clutch in the DSG and stops the bucking.

The momentary delay that people talk about is easy to get around too. I have simply learned to anticipate it. I push the pedal down earlier than I normally would, then when the car starts to go, BACK OUT of the pedal a bit or you will launch like a bullet from a gun.

Really, the DSG is a different animal. If you think about it, how many people LOVE manual transmissions. But think about all the stuff you have to know to drive one. You have to choose the right gear, modulate the clutch, hold the clutch in at stops (or go to neutral), etc. I guess the case could be made that manual transmissions are just garbage because they require too much from the driver. We all know that's not true. People like manuals because they let you interact with the car.

Same for the DSG. It's not a typical automatic tranny and can't be driven the same as a regular old slushbox.

When I first started driving, I had a manual transmission and I must have stalled it hundreds of times. It wasn't the fault of the car, it was that I didn't know how to properly operate it. Same goes with the DSG. Once you adapt to how it works, it becomes second nature.

 

[DJ KJ]

I understand your point, but when I buy an automatic I buy it so I don't have to think about it. If I want to interact with my transmission I will get a manual.

But DSG is better than an automatic because it provides better fuel economy, faster shifts (especially when shifting in manual mode) and more control.

So while DSG may not be as "smooth" as an automatic, it offers significant advantages over an automatic in other aspects.

After you get used to any car, these kind of "quirks" like learning how to adapt your foot to make DSG smoother become second nature and you don't have to think about it anymore.

So I would take DSG over a slushbox any day!

- KJ

 

[spiydr]

Can't argue with better fuel economy. Unfortunately if you take into account the cost of maintaining the DSG the saving from the increased fuel economy is probably a wash.

But again, my issue is not the DSG itself, I love the concept. But right now it does not act like an automatic should. I understand its a DSG but they still call it an automatic transmission. With that being said it should act like one. Quick response to throttle input from a stand still, no bucking, shifting into nuetral or activating the clutch when coasting so you dont look like a rag doll in bumber to bumper traffic. And most importantly my Wife should not need instruction from me on how to drive the thing.

From what I can tell, there should be three transmission options. Manual, DSG and a standard automatic.

I have three cars. I purchased this car for the quality, fuel economy and long trips. I don't want to think about the transmission. I have a 78 Jeep Wagoneer that gets 12 MPG and has an automatic that I just like to tool about in on occasion for the fun of it. I also have an 06 GTO that gets surprising great mileage but it has a 6 speed manual thats a blast to drive.

I do love the Jetta and its great to drive. Hell, I just got 633 miles from a tank of gas and it wasn't even empty yet. So I cant complain to much.

But DSG is better than an automatic because it provides better fuel economy, faster shifts (especially when shifting in manual mode) and more control.

So while DSG may not be as "smooth" as an automatic, it offers significant advantages over an automatic in other aspects.

After you get used to any car, these kind of "quirks" like learning how to adapt your foot to make DSG smoother become second nature and you don't have to think about it anymore.

So I would take DSG over a slushbox any day!

- KJ

 

[pipes p]

you have to think about it as a clutchless manual transmission, it is not anything like a traditional " automatic" tranny. when i bought mine i did a lot of research on the dsg and knew exactly what i was in for. i love it. i hope anybody buying a new car with this setup would do the same, or for any vehicle for that matter

 

[DJ KJ]

I got this car for my Fiancee as she got a new job with a round trip commute totaling 64 miles = 103 kms/day (sometimes further if she goes to a client).

She doesn't have any problems driving the DSG (bucking, accelerating, decelerating) and I ASSURE you that her driving skills aren't amazing. LOL

Maybe there's an update for the DSG software for your TDI because her nor I have noticed any of those issues with ours (she got hers about a month ago).

Maybe you have the DSG in "S-mode" which makes it more twitchy and that is what is causing you problems?

Cheers,
KJ

 

[spiydr]

I give up.

All hail VW, they are "Mechanically Superior". Who was I to think there was room for improvement.

you have to think about it as a clutchless manual transmission, it is not anything like a traditional " automatic" tranny. when i bought mine i did a lot of research on the dsg and knew exactly what i was in for. i love it. i hope anybody buying a new car with this setup would do the same, or for any vehicle for that matter

I got this car for my Fiancee as she got a new job with a round trip commute totaling 64 miles = 103 kms/day (sometimes further if she goes to a client).

She doesn't have any problems driving the DSG (bucking, accelerating, decelerating) and I ASSURE you that her driving skills aren't amazing. LOL

Maybe there's an update for the DSG software for your TDI because her nor I have noticed any of those issues with ours (she got hers about a month ago).

Maybe you have the DSG in "S-mode" which makes it more twitchy and that is what is causing you problems?

Cheers,
KJ

 

[speedeep]

I think I've seen it referred to as an "Automated Manual" recently, don't recall if that was VW-official terminology, but that seems to make the most sense when explaining it in lay terms.

 

[JThiessen]

Congrats on the new car. I also checked out the 2012 Ford Focus prior to the Jetta and found the cockpit to be almost nauseating. I love technology in cars and it was too much for me.

I didnt even bother with the test drive though, the seats were comfortable and the interior space seems entirely too small (i know its not that much different that the jetta, but perception is 9/10ths).

anyway, congrats again on the new ride. Great Color. my wife wanted beige but we couldnt find a white & beige w/ nav.

The Focus Hybrid was on my short list also, and I tried like the dickens to make it fit. First test drive was great - I came away amazed with the car, but concerned about room. I had them investigate if the seat could be moved back 2" to give me a little more room. Once they confirmed that they could, I went back and drove it again. What a difference a second drive makes. Gone was the glitter and glamor of all the bells and whistles that Ford is throwing at you. I also found that the cockpit was tight width wise and height wise. There is a significant difference between the Jetta and the Focus in terms of size.

I got this car for my Fiancee as she got a new job with a round trip commute totaling 64 miles = 103 kms/day (sometimes further if she goes to a client).

She doesn't have any problems driving the DSG (bucking, accelerating, decelerating) and I ASSURE you that her driving skills aren't amazing. LOL

Maybe there's an update for the DSG software for your TDI because her nor I have noticed any of those issues with ours (she got hers about a month ago).

Maybe you have the DSG in "S-mode" which makes it more twitchy and that is what is causing you problems?

Cheers,
KJ

Nope, I get it in either mode. Its driving style I believe. Whatever little thing your lady is doing makes it work.

I give up.

All hail VW, they are "Mechanically Superior". Who was I to think there was room for improvement.

Well, you really have to take a little more time to give yourself the chance to adapt to it. The explanations above are correct in that it will take us some time to figure out how to best drive it. I too have had the bucking problem, and its gotta be my driving style (how I use the throttle and brakes at low speed). After getting back in my truck after two weeks in the Jetta, I was amazed at how clumsy I felt driving it.

 

[El Dobro]

I think I've seen it referred to as an "Automated Manual" recently, don't recall if that was VW-official terminology, but that seems to make the most sense when explaining it in lay terms.

VW calls it an automatic.

 

[DieselNerd]

VW calls it a Wolksvagen too. But we all know it's a Volkswagen.

 

[Bob_Fout]

Obligatorily Top Gear reference

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stupid-Flappy-Paddle-Gearbox/110930148941055?v=info

 

[JThiessen]

Obligatorily Top Gear reference

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stupid-Flappy-Paddle-Gearbox/110930148941055?v=info

Mine doesn't have "Flappy Paddles"........