360gtracer
Veteran Member
Pros/cons of the *NECESSITY* of performing this dealer-recommended service every 40K miles??
Thanks.
Thanks.
DSG service
- Thread starter 360gtracer
- Start date
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Pros: transmission continues to work as designed.
Cons: it doesn't.
It is not a "dealer recommended" thing, it is a "manufacturer specified" service.
Dealer prices for this are generally higher than they should be, in my opinion. It isn't all that hard to do, really.
And really, if that cost has your George Costanza gland puckering, you probably should not have bought that car. Wait until the DPF goes bad!
Cons: it doesn't.
It is not a "dealer recommended" thing, it is a "manufacturer specified" service.
Dealer prices for this are generally higher than they should be, in my opinion. It isn't all that hard to do, really.
And really, if that cost has your George Costanza gland puckering, you probably should not have bought that car. Wait until the DPF goes bad!
360gtracer
Veteran Member
Haha, thanks! Your pros/cons are perfect, why didn't I think of that? But seriously, I've kind of viewed it as a revenue stream for the dealer, wondering if the DSG is that fragile (to use a word I've been seeing a lot of here this morning). There certainly don't seem to be any issues with it currently (it was done around 40K/5 or 6 years ago, and the car now has ~86K... '14 Beetle, not a high mileage car by any stretch.)Pros: transmission continues to work as designed.
Cons: it doesn't.
It is not a "dealer recommended" thing, it is a "manufacturer specified" service.
Dealer prices for this are generally higher than they should be, in my opinion. It isn't all that hard to do, really.
And really, if that cost has your George Costanza gland puckering, you probably should not have bought that car. Wait until the DPF goes bad!
WRT DPF - my '15 GSW w/ ~216K miles still seems to regen the DPF on a regular basis, and I've never had any issue with it (i.e. warning lights, etc. - knock on wood). FWIW.
Thanks again.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Well there's a reason they schedule it as "preventive" maintenance. Chances are, the engine runs perfectly fine right up to the 10k mile mark when it's oil change is due, or up to the 20k mile mark when the fuel filter is due, or up to the 60k mile mark when the air filter is due. These things (and the DSG) are placed in a schedule to "prevent" bad things from happening.
As to the dealers' revenue stream, they didn't place any of these items in the maintenance schedule in the owner's manual that every car left the factory with. Volkswagen did. And they don't specifically force you to return to the dealer for service (by law, they can't).
All my cars have had a dealer revenue stream of $0.
The 2015 has a different engine, with a different DPF, and has nothing to do with the 2014, which has a VERY WELL KNOWN problem with DPFs:
CBEA/CJAA DPF info | TDIClub Forums
As to the dealers' revenue stream, they didn't place any of these items in the maintenance schedule in the owner's manual that every car left the factory with. Volkswagen did. And they don't specifically force you to return to the dealer for service (by law, they can't).
All my cars have had a dealer revenue stream of $0.
The 2015 has a different engine, with a different DPF, and has nothing to do with the 2014, which has a VERY WELL KNOWN problem with DPFs:
CBEA/CJAA DPF info | TDIClub Forums
360gtracer
Veteran Member
Thanks again.
360gtracer
Veteran Member
Last thing here - there is no doubt in my mind (from other car dealerships and manufacturer programs I've been involved with) that manufacturers *OFTEN* do things to help enhance their dealership's revenue streams. And I absolutely applaud folks like you (oilhammer) who can give their dealerships $0 in revenue. I can only WISH that I had the time, space, tools, and talent do that. I just don't have much of any of these things - all of which is why I ask the initial question. 
If you go buy a trans service kit from any reputable parts place,you can do it yourself. Not only that, you can reuse the kit for future flushes which lowers the cost significantly. I think my kit was $240, that included everything to service the trans, a new drain plug and the little plastic tower that you can replace(that i didnt need to buy)that screws up into the drain hole. Its extremely easy if you have any mechanical aptitude and the worst part is the waiting for the trans to fill back up.
lemoncurd
Veteran Member
the DSG in our vehicles is the DQ250.
these are wet dual clutch systems. meaning that the majority of wear is put onto the fluid. the fluid is used to clamp the friction plates together and aide in driving characteristics of the DSG.
failure to replace the fluid at 40k miles can lead to:
mechatronics unit failure, as the oil wears out it is less protective to the solenoids which determine clutch pressure (therefor engagement), and gear selection
clutch failure, as the oil wears out it does a worse job at lubricating the clutch pack. this increases fluid temperature, both of these things increase the wear on the friction plates in the clutch basket. you accelerate wear from here on out until the clutch slips, and/or the mech unit goes into limp mode/disables as the clutch is too far worn to be used.
the 40k mile wear figure was likely agreed upon at VW from a couple of factors, it puts the interval at roughly 4 years assuming the average of 10-12k miles / year. and also considering the average usecase of the vehicle.
if you live in a very hilly town and only do city driving, like san fransico for example, it may be a wise thing to replace the DSG fluid before the 40k mark. the same logic applies to those who tow frequently with the vehicle.
this also applies to other wear/consumables in the vehicle, like brake pads, engine oil, suspension components, etc.
doing the service yourself is quite easy. i do my own, gets done in about 2 hours and im taking my sweet time.
the fastest ive done the service was probably 30mins, because we got a freak rainstorm MINUTES after i drained my fluid lol
I've seen some with no service has been done and I've seen some with one service was badly delayed and first thing I see is the filter is just ripped to shreds and sucked in, along with gears just slamming into place or not even engaging properly at all. They are very fragile. Something I would NOT skip out or delay just like your oil changes and fuel filters. Like said above, you can do it on your own and save yourself the labour it costs.
Combo
New member
I just serviced my transmission today it's a good idea to keep the clutch pack lubricated. It's not a big deal to service it. It's drain and fill. With a filter just below the battery bracket. So many online tutorials talk about getting the transmission to a specific temperature and checking the fluid level at exactly that temperature. It's really not that critical. The transmission will operate fine 3/4 quart over or under the optimum level. The fluid level will probably go up or down less than a 1/4 quart whether the transmission is hot or cold. Dealer ship wanted 500 to do the service. I did it in about an hour for $100. I bought the DSG service kit from Pentosin on Amazon. Saved me 400 bucks.
turbodieseldyke
Top Post Dawg
Youtubers didn't invent the procedure, VW did.
lemoncurd
Veteran Member
this works fine, but it makes the leveling procedure a bit more annoying.
simply putting the same amount of fluid back in as came out is one solution but less than optimal as you could have leaked some fluid during the service interval
sure, and putting your engine oil into the hash mark on the dipstick is just a recommendation. half a qt under it is juuuuust fine!
the leveling procedure is there for a reason. too much fluid and you run the risk of oil aeration which leads to dimished lubcricating AND cooling capacity.
too little fluid and you run the risk of not having the cooling capacity / thermal mass of more oil. plus running the risk of solenoids sticking or the clutch pack degrading as the fluid quantity in the transmission is DIRECTLY related to the service life of the fluid.
but whatever, those engineers paid tons of money out in borgwarner AND volkswagen know nothing. go ahead and over OR underfill! dont let the fake news like the VWoA maintenance schedule and routines stop you from saving <$100 on a service.
gearheadgrrrl
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
- Location
- Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
- TDI
- '15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
On the other hand, the "same quantity in and out" method has been used many times with no problems, done it 3 times myself and transmission seems quite happy. I suspect VW put their bottom fill method in the manual because it's faster and their dealers already have the equipment to do it that way.
lemoncurd
Veteran Member
sorry, but this is quite literally survivorship bias.
there are many people who have done the top fill, and have drained not enough fluid which results in a damaged transmission.
things are done / recommended the way they are not because of some "revenue generation" or a trip to the dealer, but because that is how the system is designed and meant to be serviced.
having said that, i have long thought about making a "dipstick kit" for the DQ250 transmissions.
it would be a banjo bolt + fitting which have a braided line attached to the engine bay. you then have a dip stick in the line and can do drain / fill from that line (vacuum pump! same you use as the engine)
this would result in removing the "snorkel" aswell, since the dipstick would be hashed for proper fluid level.
perhaps ill try starting that again..
gearheadgrrrl
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
- Location
- Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
- TDI
- '15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
I have yet to read of such a failure on this forum, and if you look at the way we discuss failed belts that were overdue for replacement we'd be discussing failed due to top filling transmissions too. BTW, have you considered the possibility that VW does bottom fill simply because it's easier to do it that way on an assembly line?
turbodieseldyke
Top Post Dawg
It might be a good idea to delete zombie accounts like that one, who signed up years ago & never logged back in, and then Boom -- driveby spam.