DSG DMF Failure: Sudden shaking, power-loss on-throttle

Shaeet

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Location
Gambrills, MD
TDI
12' JSW with mods, 05 Golf GLS 5spd
I figured I'd post this thread for informative purposes. After doing a bunch of searches I couldn't find any definitive information with the same symptoms I've experienced so here ya go! Oh and in case you are wondering DMF = Dual Mass Flywheel

Was driving my 2012 JSW TDI DSG to my grandmothers in Syracuse from MD a couple weekends ago and on the way up, about 10 miles from the destination (after 350 miles already driven), I eased into my cars throttle to overcome a minor hill, one of hundreds I had already driven over on the way up there and it started shaking violently. The more throttle I gave it, the more it shook, easing off the throttle lowered the vibrations & letting off entirely the car was as smooth as before the incident.

I was able to baby the throttle and get the car to my grandmothers but it was a struggle. Only 5% of throttle will shake it enough to be unbearable & giving it more than that tripped something in the transmission which cuts the throttle, so I was accelerating like a prius and upset a few people behind me at a couple of lights...oh well for them.

The thing that gets me is how at the flick of a switch my car goes from driving fine to BOOM shaking violently on throttle. I thought maybe something else was to blame like the diesel injection or the transmission mechatronics (although the car shifts perfectly fine when babying the throttle), or clutch packs. Talked to my VW master tech friend and he told me, although rare, the DMF can implode itself like this and fail and he suspects the long driving session may have contributed to it. This will be the THIRD 2009+ Sportwagen DSG that I need the DMF replaced on, woo hoo!!!!


So yay, had to get my bro-in-law to drive all the way up in his truck, rent a u-haul and tow it all the way home. Why? Cuz NO mechanic in Syracuse that I could find wanted to touch my car and the ones that did gave me a 7+ day eta on repairing it with a ridiculous cost of $3000 which I know is completely out of line for a DMF job.

My previous 2009 JSW TDI had 124k mileage and had a clacking/knocking sound when sitting at lights or idling. Lightly revving the engine would make the sound disappear. It also sometimes harshly shifted into 2nd gear from a standstill. DMF replacement fixed all of these issues. As much as I love these cars, they are an absolute pain in the arse to keep maintained. I will repair the DMF on my 2012 and continue driving it but this may be the last straw if something else decides to catastrophically fail for no reason whatsoever.

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Oh and I'll post a brain dump of stuff I Found out while researching this issue:

-Dual-mass flywheels for pre 2010 TDI are cheaper & different part number than 2010-2014. Not sure why, but they sell for ~$420 as compared to $610. The 2010+ only has a OEM Luk unit available. I'm not sure if the Sach's or Luk's for the pre-2010's will fit the 2010+

-Clutch packs in the transmission are about $600-800 and seem to be interchangeable between most of the DSG's, including non-TDI's. They are VERY simple to change out but of-course you have to remove the transmission to get to them. Worn clutch pack symptoms include slippage when shifting, lack of acceleration. I've never experienced this so I wouldn't know for sure, this is what I've read.

-Many of the threads I searched with similar symptoms had people saying "took my car to the dealership and the first thing they replaced is the mechatronics unit. It did nothing to help the issue!". So be warned...dealerships may be ignorant of DMF failure issues and their symptoms and assume it is the mechatronics due to the early DSG TSB's regarding them. Mechatronics replacements will run $1500-2000 and on a 2010+ should be completely unnecessary. Only the 2009 and up to midyear-2010's were affected by the TSB (correct me if I'm wrong). The mechatronics unit controls your shifts so if your car is shifting properly why waste your money?

-Dual-Mass flywheels on all VW's are a wear item so when buying your car used be prepared for their replacement at some point. My personal experience and research leads me to believe they can fail as early as 60-80k miles but can go as long as 120-150k mileage before needing replacement. There are numerous symptoms of a bad DMF including clacking sounds at idle, vibrations at idle & during acceleration and harsh shifts. Make note of these symptons if you are test driving a used DSG VW, it may be a sign of DMF needing replacement.

-DMF Jobs from the dealership are typically $2000-2400 including parts/labor. It involves removing the transmission, replacing the DMF and flywheel bolts, bolting the transmission back and replacing its fluids and filter. Probably 4-5 hours of labor, not sure the exact amount listed in the VW repair manual. I've personally replaced the DMF on a 2010 Sportwagen and getting the DSG out is VERY tight and requires a transmission jack since the transmission weighs well over 300 lbs. You'll need a good set of triple-square bits to get all of the required bolts off and this is not a job I'd recommend for most DIY'ers
 

redbarron55

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
My 2009 DMF has lasted 235,000 miles and I am having it replaced this week because of the addition of a slight rattle when cold. We noticed the different sound and and decided to replace it before if failed just to be safe since our favorite Guru (Skunkwerx in Louisville, KY) is pretty far away from us. Time for the timing belt too so it's a dual trip.
 

BlueJay83

Active member
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Location
Delaware
TDI
'10 JSW, '84 Land Rover D110 Pick Up
Shaeet,
I haven't found anyone who can diagnose my similar issue other than this timely write-up of yours, so thanks! Nobody in my area seems to know entirely what's wrong with my JSW (2010 tdi DSG), but I have a laundry list of problems. Strangely enough, they began AFTER I got the Mechatronic Unit replaced by the dealer under a partisl warranty deal. I've only had the car 6 months, and it's been a damn nightmare.

Anyway, I have had this temporary shudder in the front end and steering wheel and have had two small import shops come away baffled. It's worst at 65 mph, and when I brake, I get a severe shudder and a pull to the right usually. I have pulled over, shut the car off..but nothing changes. Then the problem will fade, and the car feels normal again.

We've rotated tires, inspected the brakes, checked the alignment, etc. We found other issues in the process..the brakes are not releasing all of the way, so the car is fighting itself anytime I drive it! I got a notice in the mail to get the ECU upgrade for the transmission, but the DSG shifts worse now than it did before (sticks in 5th all the time, so I have to go to Manual to get it to 6th. The other problems could be making this worse, not sure).

I have the dreaded P0401, so I have a clogged EGR, most likely due to a cracked DPF. I've had the Traction Control light and the ESP (same as ABS?) light both come onteice, so that lead me to believe this was a brake issue. Last week I had a flashing Glow Plug light, can't remember the code, but one mech and some research on here says that it's probably the turbo actuator.

I found another German specialty shop not too far away, so I'm going to try that next week. I don't know if part of my problem is a DMF failure, but I have repairs totaling over $5000 on a car that is worth only $11k! If there's a shop that anyone can recommend between Delaware and NJ, I'd like to get some help here!

Thanks for your post and great info.
Brad
Wilmington, DE
302-377-4479
 

BlueJay83

Active member
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Location
Delaware
TDI
'10 JSW, '84 Land Rover D110 Pick Up
Update: doesn't appear to be the DMF, but your info really motivated me to figure out all of my other problems. Turns out that my brake booster is leaking, causing my brakes to stick (according to my new Mech). This is most likely triggering the hard steering wheel vibration and triggering the ESP and Traction Control dummy lights.
I got the 00AF code awhile ago, but that's what my Mech said was most likely the Turbo VNT (actuator)..it wasn't the flashing Glow Plug light (that was Limp Mode). This hasn't reoccurred in awhile for some reason.
Lastly, I still get the P0401 code, so no doubt that's the EGR and DPF gone South. Probably repair the car and sell it at this point. I've only had it 6 months, and I'm amazed at how bad this car is compared to my 03 Golf tdi. There isn't another durable and cheap car out there besides a VW tdi, but I'm going back to stick shift and will find something not in the 2009-10 year model (am I crazy?).
Brad
 

av8or

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Location
Eastern Nebraska
TDI
2012 JSW DSG Candy White/Cornsilk
Shaeet, how many miles on your '12? Is the DMF covered by the drivetrain warranty?
 
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Shaeet

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Location
Gambrills, MD
TDI
12' JSW with mods, 05 Golf GLS 5spd
pulled the trans off tonight and the DMF doesn't look overly bad. has some play but not horrible. I'm gonna have to get some snap ring pliers to take apart the inner clutch pack to see if its good. the outer clutch packs look flawless.

According to myturbodiesel.com the BRM 1.9 DMF's are interchangeable with the CJAA 2.0 liter which would save me over $250 on the replacement part. I can only find one replacement part number for my 2.0 which is 03L105266DC. Costs $620 shipped. the Luk DMF092 is only $350 shipped. Still not sure if I'm gonna take a chance & get it or not.

Also gonna get a tyrol subframe kit since i dropped the frame to get the trans off. Hopefully that will resolve the creaking i've been having
 
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