Drum brakes --> Disk Brakes! Is it possible ?

Smokin'Joe

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2000
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
Hi,

I have a Seat Ibiza 90hp (same body shell as Golf Mk.2)wich has rear drum brakes. The hubs are 4 bolt pattern both on the wheel side (pcd 100) and suspension side.

I would like to know if it is possible to upgrade it easyly
to disk brakes using some used ones from a Golf Gti/G60/VR6 or Ibiza 110. By this I mean just taking the wheels out, unbolting the hub from the trailing arm (four bolts,same pattern as Golf) bolting the disk hub, bleeding brake sistem and then go out to the skid pad to adjust the front/rear braking force, or is it much more difficult than this
?

Thanx in advance

Joe
 
M

mickey

Guest
If you're building a race car or a SERIOUS autocross machine the mod might be worthwhile. But remember that front-wheel-drive cars need little braking in the rear because most of the weight is over the front wheels. In my opinion putting discs on the rear of the cars is just a marketing gimmick. One company did it, then everybody had to do it. Truth be told, the drums are more than adequate if you maintain the properly. It's worthwhile to take the drums off once or twice a year and blow the dust out. (Don't breathe the dust!) When you change the shoes you should install new seals in the slave cylinders and replace the springs. All those things are available in rebuild kits, and should be fairly cheap.

-mickey
 

Bob Norris

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 1999
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
Not an important consideration for most people, but....if you like to do your own maintentance, disk brakes are much more pleasant to deal with. On most FWD cars with solid rear axles, you have to remove the outer wheel bearings to pull the drum, which turns a simple brake shoe inspection into a messy job. With disks, you can directly see the condition of the braking surfaces as well as the thickness of the pads. The pads are easy to change too, much simpler than all the disassembly work required to replace brake shoes in drum brakes. Give me disks anytime!
 

Peter Cheuk

Gasser :P
Joined
Aug 31, 1998
Location
Daly City, Calif., USA
TDI
'06 Jetta GLI
Bob, I agree with most of what you say. The thing is that rear drums require much less maintenance than rear disks. Rear disks, because of the parking brake arrangement, are prone to failure. Rear drums just plain work. Rear disks probably require more frequent pad replacement than rear drums, too, so having to service rear drums isn't as big of an issue to me.

Then there's the weight issue.

Four wheel disk brakes is an advertising thing. All of the other cars that compete directly with these cars have it so VW gave in and changed to four wheel disks. It's been proven that rear drums offer identical or better braking performance on the street compared to rear disks. Rear disks only will be an advantage on the race track.

The only other reason to have rear disks is the coolness factor. With today's trend towards bigger and bigger wheels with open spokes, it's uncool to have rear drums. It's total BS, but who's to judge?
 

BaronVonW

Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2001
Location
Hughes, Arkansas, USA
TDI
2000 Jetta Wagon TDI
Hey Guys! How about increasing the size of the front disks for better stopping power? You would have to go to a bigger rim size (15", 16"), so wouldn't this mean you'd have to change to 5 bolt hub? Then I'd assume you would need to change master cylinder or get new proportioning valve (adjustable).....Oh well, maybe too much cost/work for the benefits of shorter stopping distances.
 

Peter Cheuk

Gasser :P
Joined
Aug 31, 1998
Location
Daly City, Calif., USA
TDI
'06 Jetta GLI
Jason, I agree! What's silly is to have these large 17+" rims with stock 10.1" brake rotors for the world to see. 11" rotors would look better.

Guys, read my article as I outlined above. This tells you quite a bit about brakes.

Yes, four-bolt 11" brakes are a possibility. No, a larger master cylinder is not needed, nor is a proportioning valve. I should know, I have the 11" front brakes with the rear drums on my car.
 

Jason Crabtree

Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 1999
Location
Ontario, Canada
Well, it depends what your current set up is. I don't know how big your set up is, but if it isn't 11" rotors you could move up to that size. I think for A4's you can move up to 12.3" based on the Audi set up. I know RPI sell a kit $1000+ US for the 12.3" set up. Need 17" rims to clear the brakes though and depending on the rim spacers may be needed. 11" ones need 15" rims min. Now if you really want brakes, you can get a genuine Porsche 911 kit ($$$$$) to fit.

I have 11" on the front on by A2 TDi and did a rear disc swap just for the coolness of it. Even got cross drilled rotors for the rear. Yeah baby!!! I had to get a new master cylinder and pro. value (for the rear swap) but for bigger front brakes, I think that they are a straight bolt on.

Peter: Drums are unattactive and it is uncool
. I only swapped for looks (Shallow I know). What is uncooler is when you have monster rims and wee little brakes. That is just silly.

J
 

Sooty

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 1999
Location
Midlands, UK
Today I was at the Autosport show in Birmingham (England) today whilst perusing the TAR-OX stand I got talking to one of their engineer’s. They are about to release an up-rated drum set for the MKIII Golf (which should also fit Jettas etc) in about 2-3months time, he would not commit to prices. But he did say he would email me when they are going to be released, so if anybody is interested let me know and I’ll post the part numbers at the time.

As has already been said you don’t need much rear end braking, so the cost of a complete rear end change over is not really worth it. But to just change the drums & shoes would cost a lot less, and if TAR-OX live up to their usual reputation they may give you the added braking that you are looking for.

Unfortunately Italians make lousy cars (reliability wise) but they do know how to make them stop
I already have TAR-OX on the front and am looking forward to getting them fitted on the rear.
 

3kidsnadezl

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 1999
Location
Roanoke, Virginia USA
I have but just a little to add to this thread. I recently upgraded the braking system on my Rabbit GTi. I put a scirocco 16v master cylinder and booster along with the front rotors and calipers. The response far exceeds my Jetta TDi; probably due to the weight of the car for sure. I then went out and acquired a complete rear disk set up yet declined because I couldn't see the need for any better braking. This car will stop instantly and without locking up too. So I would have to agree that most people upgrade for looks rather than response difference for the street for street use. That was essentially why I went to get the rear disk but have now changed my mind....I think.

tim
 

nortones2

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2000
Location
High Peak, UK
TDI
Formerly Passat 1.9 110hp
Two points: the all-disc vehicles I have driven seem considerably better re feed-back and effectiveness than "hybrid" disc and drum. Far less lost-travel in the pedal. The earliest all disc vehicle I tried was a Citroen, and it seemed much better than oor VW Polo of the same vintage (1980). My impression only: don't have a reason to back it up!

Second point: has anyone "downgraded" to all drum, to get better fuel economy. Don't think HGV's (trucks) use discs at all, do they? Reason: less drag with drums.
 
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