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Dropping the subframe

roni024

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Location
Syracuse, NY
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL DSG
My wife's 2012 Passat gasser has a leaking power steering rack, so I'm going to tackle that in a couple of weeks. I was reading through the ElsaWin / ErWin instructions to R&R the power steering rack and noticed they did not mention the use of any subframe alignment pins in order to complete the repair. Are alignment pins necessary to R&R the subframe on the NMS Passat?
 

roni024

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Location
Syracuse, NY
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL DSG
So I did a little more research...

The repair procedure I read had a line that said "Secure the subframe" with no further reference to any other repair procedure. I started to search my repair guides for specific references to the subframe, and it turns out there's an entire procedure to "Secure the subframe" and specialized tools required. For anyone looking for these tools, they are: Locating Pins T10096 and Fixation Tool T10452.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The subframe has a slight adjustment possible, which is useful for alignment purposes.

If you are careful, you can just utilize the witness marks on the frame where the six fasteners go, and put it back the way you found it. The car will need to be aligned anyway, if anything is off, the person doing that can if necessary shift it to get it perfect.

I would also carefully inspect the compliance bushings in the control arms while you have the subframe down, as those are commonly failed items on the NMS and now would be the time to press new ones in.
 

roni024

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Mar 31, 2007
Location
Syracuse, NY
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2015 Passat TDI SEL DSG
That's good advice on the bushing replacement. I'm not familiar with the term compliance bushing. Is that the bushing the bolt passes through vertically, or horizontally?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
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There are just too many to list....
On that car, the bushing in the control arm toward the rear of the car, and gives, or "complies" when the wheel hits a bump. On some newer transverse VAG models, including the NMS, they went BACK to the trouble prone setup only it is made worse by the size and weight of the bigger car. They are also a bit more involved to get out due to the NMS' control arms fitting in a little pocket in the subframe. So they do not come out as easy as they would in same an A4 platform car that would have the same bushing wear. I drop the subframe down to R&R the control arms on these.
 

Ironman24

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Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Location
Hillsborough, NC
TDI
15 Passat TDI DSG
I am replacing the control arm bushings next week. Do you need to replace the subframe bolts when dropping it down to get the control arms out? Can't remember if they are torque to yield. I should be able to line it back on on the witness marks pretty well.
 

Strider17

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Apr 5, 2016
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Beetle(sold) MK4 Golf TDI(sold) Mk4 Jetta TDI(parted out) MK4 Golf GTI w/ALH swap (built then parted out) 2015 Passat TDI Highline (current)
i thought the NMS passat platform was electric power steering?

or is it only the diesels?

as for the subframe...i have a 2015 tdi and will be putting in a b6 passat or a 2010 cc subframe in my car with TT updated bushings...ill report back
 

abishoff

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Joined
May 12, 2015
Location
Wylie, TX
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2015 Passat TDI SEL
You definitely need to replace the subframe bolts because they are tty bolts and will stretch. I ran into this when I installed a front swaybar. I re-used the factory bolts and my subframe shifts when turning at slow speeds and you can hear it clunk loudly. However, I just ordered both sets of the TyrolSport Subframe collars, the older style for the mkIV/MKV and the “MQB” which is for the new subframe style. They include re-usable ARP bolts and alignment collars. I’m hoping one of these works and will tighten everything up. It’s terrible engineering to not have some type of factory subframe alignment setup. Because even after you use new bolts, there’s a high chance it’s not perfect and then you’ll need a new front-end wheel alignment.


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abishoff

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May 12, 2015
Location
Wylie, TX
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2015 Passat TDI SEL
i thought the NMS passat platform was electric power steering?



or is it only the diesels?



as for the subframe...i have a 2015 tdi and will be putting in a b6 passat or a 2010 cc subframe in my car with TT updated bushings...ill report back


Explain more on this? Also, why not go with an aftermarket tube subframe?


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Strider17

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Beetle(sold) MK4 Golf TDI(sold) Mk4 Jetta TDI(parted out) MK4 Golf GTI w/ALH swap (built then parted out) 2015 Passat TDI Highline (current)
you can pick up a CC/B6 passat subframes with control arms from scrapyards for 50 bucks all day long.

this in an upgrade since the nms platform uses the metal black subframe with hockey puck bushings in the control arms. these bushings are too weak for the weight of the car and dont last as long...plus there are no OEM upgrades.

when using the CC/b6 passat aluminum subframes you can buy TTRS bushings and press them into the control arms. this will give you better handling, more life and its a cheap upgrade.

mk6 jettas use the same metal subframes as the nms passats. this upgrade is even more popular on the mk6 jettas.
 

abishoff

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Joined
May 12, 2015
Location
Wylie, TX
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2015 Passat TDI SEL
you can pick up a CC/B6 passat subframes with control arms from scrapyards for 50 bucks all day long.

this in an upgrade since the nms platform uses the metal black subframe with hockey puck bushings in the control arms. these bushings are too weak for the weight of the car and dont last as long...plus there are no OEM upgrades.

when using the CC/b6 passat aluminum subframes you can buy TTRS bushings and press them into the control arms. this will give you better handling, more life and its a cheap upgrade.

mk6 jettas use the same metal subframes as the nms passats. this upgrade is even more popular on the mk6 jettas.


Gotcha. I have 145k miles in mine and the bushings still seem to be in great shape. And I drive rough and also tow. I don’t take it to the track but I’m often on winding roads at high rate of speeds. Also have slightly oversized tires compared to stock.


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740GLE

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Aug 19, 2009
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NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
i thought the NMS passat platform was electric power steering?
Yeah they are all electronic, electronically powered hydraulic.

Also I'm impressed a B6 subframe would fit the NMS due to how vastly different the NMS platform is, but i guess if the rear suspension is of a Mk5 i guess it isn't crazy of an idea.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
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There are just too many to list....
The NMS has electric power steering except for the 2.5L models. They use a conventional hydraulic system. The NCS Jetta is the same, plus the S 2.slo cars also have hydraulic.

This has nothing to do with the subframe, however.

No VAG products use electric/hydraulic power steering*. The Toyota MR2 Spyder, some Ford-based Mazda products (3, 5, etc.), and many ChryCo MB-based LX platform cars (Charger, etc.), and a bunch of newer Nissans, do. Some of the newer Audis do use a variable assist control solenoid on the hydraulic rack, however. But the system still uses a conventional engine-driven pump. All the little solenoid does is vary the level of assist based on road speed. Which is something that has been around for a long time. Honda was using this in the '80s, first with a little bypass valve driven off the speedometer cable drive then later with a solenoid.

*that I am aware of. Something like an R8 or a Bentley model or whatever I have no idea.
 
Last edited:

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Oh crap I thought it was still hydraulics that caused the movement of the rack, my bad.

Thanks for the heads up.
 

Dalon

Veteran Member
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Apr 6, 2015
Location
Ohio
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2006 MKV Jetta TDI 1.9L - 185k 2013 Passat TDI - 20k
You definitely need to replace the subframe bolts because they are tty bolts and will stretch. I ran into this when I installed a front swaybar. I re-used the factory bolts and my subframe shifts when turning at slow speeds and you can hear it clunk loudly. However, I just ordered both sets of the TyrolSport Subframe collars, the older style for the mkIV/MKV and the “MQB” which is for the new subframe style. They include re-usable ARP bolts and alignment collars. I’m hoping one of these works and will tighten everything up. It’s terrible engineering to not have some type of factory subframe alignment setup. Because even after you use new bolts, there’s a high chance it’s not perfect and then you’ll need a new front-end wheel alignment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Did either of those kits work for the b7 then?
 
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