Drawbacks with EGR delete

[Audiman]

Guys,

I've a lot about benefits of EGR delete like:-
- More power/more oxygen going into the engine
- Cleaner exhaust gases as not re-circulation is taking place.
- No EGR blockages etc etc

What are the downside of doing an EGR delete. Surely it must be bad for the engine because :-

- Higher temperature buildup in the engine, as gases are no longer being cooled and re-circulated
- More crap being deposited in the oil as the gases stay in the engine. ie oil gets dirty'er quicker
- Would it increase pressure in the engine as cannot escape.

Anyone got any more ideas about disadvantages of EGR delete ???

 

[Joester]

-EGR delete doesnt really give you much, if any more power. The car is smart enough to not recirculate exhaust gases into the engine when max power is requested as far as I know.

-The specific purpose of EGR is to make exhaust gases cleaner, so no, I would say that's not a benefit of an EGR delete... I've heard that EGR actually increases CO2 emissions, but thats jsut what I've heard, I'd have to look in my school textbook to confirm for sure.

-main reason my EGR is deleted is because there's less stuff to break and the car is way easier to work on without it. I guess you could argue weight savings, too.

-sure, higher temps in the engine, but not significantly enough that you'll ever notice.

-people will tell you that deleting the EGR makes the car warm up slower in the winter but in my personal experience this is 100% false, my car warms up just as fast, if not faster after the EGR delete.

-higher NOx emissions with no EGR in place, bad for environment and human health, forms smog and acid rain


The way I look at it, you just have to ask yourself if the convenience of no EGR overrides the guilt of free-riding off of everyone else's lower emission newer cars. To me it was, and I'm probably a bad person because of it.

 

[Rembrant]

Anyone got any more ideas about disadvantages of EGR delete ???

You will lose the ASV.

I've cleaned the exhaust side of the EGR coolers on both cars and have left them intact and functioning as stock. I personally don't feel a need to remove the EGR systems, but many do. YMMV.

 

[OMALLEY_808]

You will lose the ASV.

I've cleaned the exhaust side of the EGR coolers on both cars and have left them intact and functioning as stock. I personally don't feel a need to remove the EGR systems, but many do. YMMV.

FALSE

You do not lose the ASV

Delete the cooler, use block off plates, everything else remains intact. Even the EGR valve itself still can remain if desired.

 

[Rembrant]

FALSE

You do not lose the ASV

Delete the cooler, use block off plates, everything else remains intact. Even the EGR valve itself still can remain if desired.

LOL, whatever, it's all in the terminology then.
To me, and EGR delete kit does just that, it deletes the "EGR system"...they're all over Ebay and everywhere else.

The block off plates would be an EGR cooler delete only, or an EGR system disable.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I'm no delete expert, my EGR system is all still intact as stock.

 

[kiwibru]

I've cleaned the exhaust side of the EGR coolers on both cars and have left them intact and functioning as stock.

Did that include the intake manifold and the entry ports in the head? PITA job that typically should be done every 40-50K with EGR intact.

 

[Rembrant]

Did that include the intake manifold and the entry ports in the head? PITA job that typically should be done every 40-50K with EGR intact.

That almost feels like a trick question...lol. Why would somebody not clean the intake manifold and intake ports in the head?

I clean them spotlessly clean, and I have a spare cleaned ALH intake manifold sitting on the shelf in my garage. I don't really find it to be a PITA job. I know it bothers a lot of people, but I don't get too worked up over it.

 

[OMALLEY_808]

LOL, whatever, it's all in the terminology then.
To me, and EGR delete kit does just that, it deletes the "EGR system"...they're all over Ebay and everywhere else.

The block off plates would be an EGR cooler delete only, or an EGR system disable.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I'm no delete expert, my EGR system is all still intact as stock.

Yeah there are different magnitudes of delete.

The most common is just getting rid of the cooler and leaving everything else in tact. This is done with just block off plates

Some people remove the EGR valve (even though its just sitting there doing nothing if block off plates are installed). With block off plates installed

Some people delete the ASV, EGR Valve, and Cooler and install a "race pipe"

No sleep lost just no need for wrong info!

 

[n1das]

Guys,
I've a lot about benefits of EGR delete like:-
- More power/more oxygen going into the engine
- Cleaner exhaust gases as not re-circulation is taking place.
- No EGR blockages etc etc
What are the downside of doing an EGR delete. Surely it must be bad for the engine because :-
- Higher temperature buildup in the engine, as gases are no longer being cooled and re-circulated
- More crap being deposited in the oil as the gases stay in the engine. ie oil gets dirty'er quicker
- Would it increase pressure in the engine as cannot escape.
Anyone got any more ideas about disadvantages of EGR delete ???

Advantages:

• Less maintenance issues.
• No intake clogging to worry about.

Disadvantages:

• NOx emissions will be higher and uncontrolled.
• Illegal for on-road use. (Tampering) Only legal for off-road use. EDIT: I see you're in the UK so laws may be different than in USA.
• It might trigger an EGR related code. There are ways around it though.
• You may or may not give up the ASV function, depending on how you do the delete. On an ALH and older TDIs, unplugging the vacuum hose from the EGR valve and plugging the hose with a golf tee is a quick and easy way to do an EGR delete and the mod is easily reversible. You retain the ASV function this way. If you replace the EGR valve and ASV with a racepipe, you give up the ASV function. On the PD TDIs, a quick and dirty EGR delete is to unplug the cable going to the EGR/ASV assembly and this mod is easily reversible.
• If you do a full delete with a racepipe, you will need to remove the EGR cooler and block the exhaust from the turbo housing with a blockoff plate. The coolant lines would need to be joined with a union fitting. Not hard to do.

Have fun!

 

[GreenLantern_TDI]

Delete it and forget it. I live in Iowa. Ita cold here and no issues. I dont like that egr puts all that soot back into the intake and coking crap up. Egr adds soot to oil as well. Egr is the devil.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I've had the EGR deleted in my wagon since 2004. Never had to clean the intake. My B4 has the EGR duty cycle shut off with its Rocketchip tune. All the hardware is intact. Intake is clean.

 

[1.9ZOOK]

Does the EGR cooler heat up the intake air?
If so doesn't that simi defeat the purpose of cold air from
the intercooler?
Colder denser air= better performance...

 

[Gothmolly]

That almost feels like a trick question...lol. Why would somebody not clean the intake manifold and intake ports in the head?...

Why WOULD you clean them?

 

[Seatman]

Only thing I've noticed is slightly longer warm up time in winter, the egr puts hot gases into the engine so surely higher engine temps.

We don't have egr coolers on a lot of ours, only the PD150 in the mk4 platform.

 

[Rembrant]

Why WOULD you clean them?

Who cares? What difference does it make?

I don't even know why this is a discussion.

You guys can carry on and talk about EGR deletes and the different magnitudes of EGR deletes, I'll stay out of it, I promise.

 

[keaton85]

Unplug vac hose, plug with bolt... done!

I used to unplug mine in the summer and plug it back in when it got really cold as warm up times took forever!

 

[JETaah]

Plugging the hose with a screw gives you a vacuum leak with a swirl pattern.

 

[keaton85]

Revised!!

 

[rwolff]

What are the downside of doing an EGR delete. Surely it must be bad for the engine because :-

- Higher temperature buildup in the engine, as gases are no longer being cooled and re-circulated
- More crap being deposited in the oil as the gases stay in the engine. ie oil gets dirty'er quicker
- Would it increase pressure in the engine as cannot escape.

EGR takes gases that would normally have gone out the tailpipe, cools them (transferring heat to the coolant), and sends them back into the intake. The purpose is to take up space that would normally be occupied by air, reducing the amount of excess oxygen so that NOx production is reduced. You will get LESS temperature buildup because the hot exhaust gases will go out the tailpipe rather than having their heat transferred to the coolant. You've moved toward the "more NOx less soot" end of the curve, so there's less crap to deposit in the oil, and the gases are escaping out the tailpipe, so there's no increase in pressure.

I've heard that EGR actually increases CO2 emissions, but thats jsut what I've heard, I'd have to look in my school textbook to confirm for sure.

A diesel operating efficiently produces NOx, one operating inefficiently produces soot (partially burned fuel). Since EGR makes the engine less efficient, it will burn more fuel - and therefore generate more CO2.

 

[Audiman]

Thanks guys for all your replies - decided to keep the egr and not do the delete - I've not got VAGCOM to clear the codes.

Any how I got an awful shock when i took off the egr. It was 50% blocked - I'd thought the car was just getting old, but the crud build had been restricting the intake manifold!!

My question is - how do I clean the intake manifold ie round the corners and inside?. I've heard of people using a blow torch and compressor - I haven't got a compressor.

My second question - how can i check if both valves on the egr are working okay. The actuator valve can be easily tested by applying a vacuum and seeing if the butterfly valve work. I'm not sure how to check the second valve (the one that comes from the exhaust) - see attached photos

 

[UhOh]

As bad as that looks it's probably not causing much degradation in performance.

My car was outright asthmatic:

Wife's car's intake and EGR was only slight less clogged yet it ran MUCH better. Intake ports on hers had to be cleaned (mine didn't).

You can test the EGR valve itself via vacuum. And you apply vacuum to it so you can clean around it!

 

[Audiman]

I just cannot believe that I could do 120 MPH with the EGR clogged up as shown below.
It was sluggish, I thought it might be a problem with the turbo or age of the vehicle.

Tomorrow, I'm going to replaces all the vacuum hose's .... just for good measure!

[/url][/IMG]

 

[UhOh]

I just cannot believe that I could do 120 MPH with the EGR clogged up as shown below.
It was sluggish, I thought it might be a problem with the turbo or age of the vehicle.

Tomorrow, I'm going to replaces all the vacuum hose's .... just for good measure!

[/URL][/IMG]

Can you even do 120mph in a healthy TDI?

Here's what the intake on the wife's car looked like (it felt like a rocket compared to mine; and, interestingly enough, cleaning all of it didn't make a lot of difference). I didn't try hitting 120mph, but for sure it didn't feel impeded (I only cleaned it because I was replacing the EGR valve [which turns out wasn't bad- it was, as can be seen in the picture, the seal that was leaking])/

 

[boertje]

Here is my golf at 149k miles. I now run all my cars at Malone stage 2 tunes with dyn EGR. Just did a timing belt on my 01 bug and the intake was absolutely clean after 100k with this tune.

 

[AnotherPerson]

We did mine by boiling it in a big pot after cleaning it at the car wash with the pressure sprayer. Than we soaked it in parts cleaner for a little bit. I removed the egr cooler and some other things in the process to give more room for future work to be done and prevent the rotting out of the cooler which does happen over time.

 

[Techteach]

My V10 ayh engines right Side intake was almost totally blocked, extremely amount of carbon build Up. The left Side was was black oily, just like i expected. I blocked the both EGRs, but, when i drive to work, mostly downhill, the motor temp was suddenly wery low. And at the other direction it was Warmer but clearly colder then before the operation. When the temp came below -20 celcius it became To be a problem, Icy Windows, low temp in car etc. I now drive without the blocking and occasionly carve out carbonbuildup in intake. The carbon in there was really nasty, almost completly blocked. So in Cold weather it was No success without a healty dieselvarmer.

 

[Techteach]

in My any engine, 1.2 tdi it was in the other hand an succes. It has an 12V heater to warm the coolant liquid. so No problemas there. Sony No if this engine was ever was sold in the states. 61hp in sport mode, 43hp in Eco mode. A very economical car framebuild aluminium Audi A2. An manual that is automatic operated, freewheel, start/stop. A kind of an idiotic car that Audi lost money on every sold car. 2000 to 2005, just to prove that Audi could bild a car that had an consumption of 3.0 litre at 100km. Not that small car, 4 pass no problems.

 

[Techteach]

in My any engine, 1.2 tdi it was in the other hand an succes. It has an 12V heater to warm the coolant liquid. so No problemas there. Sony No if this engine was ever was sold in the states. 61hp in sport mode, 43hp in Eco mode. A very economical car framebuild aluminium Audi A2. An manual that is automatic operated, freewheel, start/stop. A kind of an idiotic car that Audi lost money on every sold car. 2000 to 2005, just to prove that Audi could bild a car that had an consumption of 3.0 litre at 100km. Not that small car, 4 pass no problems.

Sorry for the writing, Swedish spelling program.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Welcome to tdiclub! You are responding to a 4 year old thread though.

 

[NightHawk]

Relevancy is timeless