Dpf fuel regen and fuel rail pressure too low faults

[jhort]

Me and others have the following theory:
The dpf regen frequency fault causes vehicle go into limp mode.
The "process" of vehicle being put into limp mode is by cutting off fuel HENCE also get fuel rail system pressure too low fault.

Reason for theory is everything in the fuel system possibly causing low fuel pressure has been replaced with no change. Pressure testing, parts inspection conducted nothing wrong. These two faults are the only ones present.

So we are concluding there is nothing wrong with fuel pressure, but rather it is the means by which computer partially disables car ; but due to a separate issue going on (clogged diesel particulate filter, perhaps).

Thoughts, comments.

 

[kemalik84]

Which car is it

 

[jhort]

2013 passat tdi ckra 2.0

 

[Tuheeden]

If you are getting fuel rail pressure too low errors that really has nothing to do with the DPF regen. How long has this been happening? And are you using a scanner or VCDS? Did this start after any work that you performed?

 

[jhort]

I have scanner. No work performed to trigger this.
I am not suggesting DPF regen and low fuel rail pressure are directly associated; but rather that because of faulty DPF system, not sure what exactly yet, ECU throws car into limp mode by diminishing the amount of fuel, hence also get the low fuel pressure fault.

The DPF issue started about August , September of last year but never went into limp mode. The low rail fuel pressure ensued in January and started the limp mode.

We figured DPF at first wasn't severe enough, but 4 months or so after got severe enough for ECU to step in sort of speak and derate the car .

Car is out of town being worked on and that is a theory being entertained.

 

[TurboABA]

Nope

 

[jhort]

At this point we will continue to address dpf fault code issue and go from there. All out of ideas with low fuel pressure. Other than the ecu being replaced, all else has been. To be continued.

 

[Will27]

If your theory was true, specified rail pressure would drop and the actual rail pressure would still match it, so should not throw that DTC.
What has been done to try fix it so far?

Have you pulled the metering valve on the HPFP to check for metal debris? If ok
Does the lift pump work properly?
Fuel filter ok?
Double check any work done on the fuel system, no supply and return lines mixed up anywhere
Is the HPFP timed correctly?
If the HPFP has been replaced, is it the correct one? (I.e. not one for another engine code that's supposedly "close enough")
Does the engine actually start and run ok, aside from being in limp mode and the dpf fault?

 

[jhort]

Yes, actual fuel drops , usually say 149 hpa when specified is say 169hpa; always about 20 hpa difference.

Hpfp put on there exact match. Car starts no issues . Runs no issues until glow plug symbol starts flashing then limp mode.

Tested in tank fuel pump with gauge before and after fuel filter and getting between 62 and 65 psi. Have not tested under load though.

Metering valve no metals , no metals at all in fuel system. Filter was first thing replaced when all this Started in January.

Fuel injectors tested at a shop..all good.

Thanks

 

[TurboABA]

One second.... why was the HPFP replaced? Where was this mentioned that I missed it?

149 hpa when specified is say 169hpa

Where are you getting this reading? This is super low for anything!
What are you injector deviations like?

 

[Shoveltrev]

have those injectors actually been pulled out of the car and checked for excessive return flow under full load fuel?

 

[jhort]

Here, i'll post the autoscan. I was just writing abreviated format of the hPa's.


Code:
VIN: 1VWBN7A32DC076445 License Plate:
Mileage: 221320km-137521mi Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: A3-VW41 (7N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 2E 37 42 44 46 4F 52 56 62 72


VIN: 1VWBN7A32DC076445 Mileage: 221320km-137521miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
2E-Media Player 3 -- Status: OK 0000
37-Navigation -- Status: Malfunction 0010
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
4F-Centr. Electr. II -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CKRA) Labels:. 03L-906-022-CFC.clb
Part No SW: 03L 997 009 J HW: 03L 907 309 S
Component: R4 2.0l TDI H23 9982
Revision: 71H23--- Serial number: CVN: D240C61F5C3E0D04
Coding: 001D0012042400000000
Shop #: WSC 22194 444 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI01103L997009J 004005
ROD: EV_ECM20TDI01103L997009H.rod
VCID: 3B233CC303E5FA323A1-806E
VINID: 0669D27874430944C01C6104147C1ACF14

2 Faults Found:
5211 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
P0087 00 [01100101] - Too Low
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 221294 km
Date: 2024.01.02
Time: 11:11:38

Engine RPM: 1988.50 /min
Normed load value: 88.6 %
Vehicle speed: 87 km/h
Coolant temperature: 103 C
Intake air temperature: 37 C
Ambient air pressure: 950 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.200 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 78
Fuel temperature: 25.9 C
Mean injection quantity: 52.44 mg/stroke
Rail pressure regulation: status-Bits 0-7: 5
Fuel high-pressure: actual value: 1294100 hPa
High fuel pressure: specified value: 1582900 hPa
Pressure control valve adaptation factor: 1.0945
Fuel level: 64.00 l

8863 - Particulate Filter
P2459 00 [01100101] - Regeneration Frequency
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 221623 km
Date: 2024.01.02
Time: 03:23:46

Engine RPM: 1318.50 /min
Normed load value: 64.3 %
Vehicle speed: 55 km/h
Coolant temperature: 98 °C
Intake air temperature: 34 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.340 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Exhaust gas jet volume in particle filter: 126.1 m³/h
Particle filter: difference pressure: 105 hPa
Particle filter: soot mass measured: 24.14 g
Particle filter: soot mass calculated: 24.12 g
Particle filter: differential pressure: dynamic offset: -8 hPa
Exhaust gas temperature sensor 3: 204.0 °C
Exhaust gas temperature sensor 4: 135.7 °C

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 02E-927-770.clb
Part No SW: 02E 300 058 M HW: 02E 927 770 AL
Component: GSG DSG AG6 512 9436
Revision: 05551213 Serial number: 00001209182057
Coding: 0000020
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
VCID: 2411E7BF92DBA5CA6BB-8070

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104) Labels:. 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 BL HW: 1K0 907 379 BL
Component: ESP MK60EC1 H31 0152
Revision: 00H31001
Coding: C54BC0F549290000A30F03E8921E0042A71000
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
VCID: 7DA7F2DB5DF13402445-8028

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J301) Labels:| 3C8-907-336.clb
Part No SW: 561 907 426 A HW: 561 907 426 A
Component: AC Manuell H02 0101
Revision: 00001K07
Coding: 0010001002
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_ACManuaElectGen2BHTC 001002
ROD: EV_ACManuaElectGen2BHTC_VW36.rod
VCID: 196FC64BA919E822C8D-804C

1 Fault Found:
9477489 - Motor for Air Distribution Flap
B109D 71 [00001000] - Actuator Stuck
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 105
Mileage: 221117 km
Date: 2023.12.22
Time: 17:40:26


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519) Labels:. 1K0-937-08x-09.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 937 087 AA HW: 5K0 937 087 AA
Component: BCM PQ35 H+ 121 0168
Revision: BL121001
Coding: 6F200E1B902B08D408880001160085480071008640A00560648060000C70
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
VCID: 74B1D7FF6EBB754A3BB-8020

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
Component: RLS 240912 05 54 0403
Coding: 22300A

3 Faults Found:
00956 - Key 2
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100101
Fault Priority: 4
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 49
Mileage: 220719 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.05.08
Time: 11:49:13

Freeze Frame:
Term 15 On
Voltage: 12.10 V
ON
ON
OFF
OFF
OFF

01504 - Bulb for License-Plate Light (X)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101010
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 21
Reset counter: 113
Mileage: 220813 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.05.09
Time: 16:29:32

Freeze Frame:
Term 15 On
Voltage: 13.70 V
ON
ON
OFF
OFF
ON

02746 - Bulb for Daytime Running Light; Right
010 - Open or Short to Plus
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101010
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 49
Mileage: 220719 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.05.08
Time: 11:49:15

Freeze Frame:
Term 15 On
Voltage: 12.15 V
ON
ON
OFF
OFF
OFF


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234) Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
Part No SW: 5C0 959 655 HW: 5C0 959 655
Component: AirbagVW10G 013 0809
Serial number: 003ENM056M09 Dataset Number: 560003v__A_ 0049
Coding: 00003548
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360 A01024
ROD: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360.rod
VCID: 6FBBD893071D5692C69-803A

Seat occupied recognition:
Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5C6 959 339 B HW: 5C6 959 339 B
Component: BF-Gewichtss. H10 0046
Serial number: 6940000Y120000LZBM0G
Coding: 303044

Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side:
Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354 HW: 5K0 959 354
Component: S.Sens.Fahr.V H02 ----
Serial number: 3572MSME30653173ZZZL

Front Passenger's Side Airbag Crash Sensor:
Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354 HW: 5K0 959 354
Component: S.Sens.Beif.V H02 ----
Serial number: 3582MSME605A6273ZZZX

Rear Side Airbag Crash Sensor (on driver's side):
Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 351 A HW: 5K0 959 351 A
Component: S.Sens.Fahr.H H02 ----
Serial number: 3516KSME166B2520ZZZM

Passenger side rear thorax airbag crash sensor:
Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 351 A HW: 5K0 959 351 A
Component: S.Sens.Beif.H H02 ----
Serial number: 3526KSME323B0B20ZZZM

Crash sensor for front airbag: driver side:
Subsystem 6 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 659 A HW: 5K0 959 659 A
Component: F.Sens.Fahr H02 ----
Serial number: 3556LSME64056E1EZZZ1

Crash sensor for front airbag: front passenger side:
Subsystem 7 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 659 A HW: 5K0 959 659 A
Component: F.Sens.Beif H02 ----
Serial number: 3566LSME261A761EZZZ%

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel (J527) Labels:| 5K0-953-569.clb
Part No SW: 1K5 953 521 AK HW: 5K0 953 569 B
Component: LENKS.MODUL 014 0140
Revision: FF010041 Serial number: 20121001302345
Coding: 088A140000
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_SMLSNGVOLWSXS A01004
ROD: EV_SMLSNGVOLWS.rod
VCID: 76B5EDF77847675A05F-8022

Multifunction steering wheel control module:
Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 3C8 959 537 D HW: 3C8 959 537 D Labels: 3C8-959-537.CLB
Component: E221__MFL-YVJ H07 0022
Coding: E20000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285) Labels:| 5K0-920-XXX-17.clb-SRI1
Part No SW: 561 920 970 E HW: 561 920 970 E
Component: KOMBI H07 0705
Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 231E01
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04716
ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_004_VW32.rod
VCID: 1C61DF5FA62B9D0AD3B-8048

2 Faults Found:
9453074 - Fuel Level Sensor 1
B103E 1B [00001000] - Resistance Too High
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 114

9459995 - Covering for fuel level indicator sensor 1
B1059 1B [00001000] - Resistance Too High
[Geber 1 f r Kraftstoffvorratsanzeige: bergangswiderstand zu gro ]
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 139
Reset counter: 114
Mileage: 220722 km
Date: 2023.12.16
Time: 12:11:17


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533) Labels:. 7N0-907-530-V2.clb
Part No SW: 7N0 907 530 AH HW: 7N0 907 530 AH
Component: J533 Gateway H50 1634
Revision: H50 Serial number: 10111203290546
Coding: 461000
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
VCID: 76B5EDF778C7675A05F-8022

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334) Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 953 234 HW: 5K0 953 234
Component: IMMO H07 0705
Serial number:
Coding: 000000
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03709
ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW21.rod
VCID: 6A8DC9873CFFB3BA917-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 2E: Media Player 3 (J650) Labels:. 5N0-035-342.lbl
Part No SW: 5N0 035 342 F HW: 5N0 035 342 F
Component: SG EXT.PLAYER H18 0546
Revision: A1001003 Serial number: 7663363842
Coding: 020100
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
VCID: 2A0D0987FCFF73BA517-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation (J794) Labels:| 1K0-035-27x-37.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 035 274 D HW: 1K0 035 274 D
Component: RNS315-NAR H35 0319
Serial number: VWZAZ2M4239743
Coding: 0400040104000B000000100A
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_RNS315NARV2UDS 001705
ROD: EV_RNS315NARV2UDS_VW41.rod
VCID: 2517FABB95615CC27C5-8070

Data carrier:
Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3AA 919 866 B
Component: NAR_V3_(0037) 0037

1 Fault Found:
1048642 - Internal Control Module Memory Check Sum Error
B2000 42 [00001001] - General Memory Failure
[ECU defect data memory failure]
Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Priority: 4
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 146115 km
Date: 2020.10.01
Time: 22:27:47


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386) Labels:| 3C0-959-70X-GEN4.clb
Part No SW: 561 959 701 HW: 3C0 959 793 B
Component: TUER-SG FT 002 0525
Revision: 13110009 Serial number: 0005720211
Coding: 0404F5
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_TSGFPQ25BRFVW46X A04001
ROD: EV_TSGFPQ25BRFVW46X.rod
VCID: 5BE39C43E3A5DA321A1-800E

Slave Driver:
Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 561 959 811 HW: 561 959 811 Labels: 1K0-959-70X-GEN4.CLB
Component: J388__TSG_HL 004 4472
Serial number: --------------------
Coding: 800000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
Part No: 1K0 909 144 P
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 290 3305
Revision: 00H22000
Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
VCID: 372B20F3334DDE52DE9-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 4F: Centr. Electr. II (J520) Labels:. 1K0-907-532.clb
Part No SW: 7N0 907 532 HW: 7N0 907 530 AH
Component: EZE_2 H50 1634
Revision: H50 Serial number: 10111203290546
Coding: 01030108
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
VCID: 6FBBD893079D5692C69-803A

Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 561 959 591 HW: 561 959 591
Component: J245 P05 FFD7 H07 0004
Serial number: 53388786011223200119
Coding: 181100

Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 561 919 204 B HW: 561 919 204 B
Component: Analoguhr 008 0005

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387) Labels:| 3C0-959-70X-GEN4.clb
Part No SW: 561 959 702 HW: 3C0 959 792 B
Component: TUER-SG BT 002 0525
Revision: 15110009 Serial number: 0005690344
Coding: 0404F4
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_TSGBPQ25BRFVW46X A04001
ROD: EV_TSGBPQ25BRFVW46X.rod
VCID: 5CE19F5FE6ABDD0A13B-8008

Slave Passenger:
Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 561 959 812 HW: 561 959 812 Labels: 1K0-959-70X-GEN4.CLB
Component: J389__TSG_HR 004 4472
Serial number: --------------------
Coding: 800000

No fault code found.

End(Elapsed Time: 01:06, VBatt start/end: 11.9V/11.9V. VIgn 11.9V, udsna)--

 

[jhort]

Injectors have been pulled out and tested at shop. Attached results (figuring out how). The fourth one down #4 injector, had high return. Replaced it but still no improvement. Tested also and results were normal.

 

[jhort]

http://imgur.com/aJ29juz

http://imgur.com/Jk9l8jj

http://imgur.com/395IOMJ

http://imgur.com/WXrNREv

 

[Will27]

In your other thread (why 2??), you mention burnt connectors to the lift pump. Have these been fixed? On both the pump side AND the connector on the wiring harness. If you have poor connection there, the pump might run for a bit until the contacts heat up, resistance at the connector goes through the roof then the lift pump stops

 

[TurboABA]

Based on the FF data, you keep blowing away the code. How often or frequent does this code pop?
Have you done any logs after blowing it away to try to capture some useful parameters about the conditions that it happens during?
What do your injector deviations and calibration points look like?

 

[jhort]

In your other thread (why 2??), you mention burnt connectors to the lift pump. Have these been fixed? On both the pump side AND the connector on the wiring harness. If you have poor connection there, the pump might run for a bit until the contacts heat up, resistance at the connector goes through the roof then the lift pump stops

Yes, the lift pump been replaced. NO more issues there, no burnt signs on pump connector or harness itself. I owuld imagine if lift pump stops, car would shut off. Car starts fine, no hesitation, when running no backfire, rough running; just goes limp mode.

 

[jhort]

Based on the FF data, you keep blowing away the code. How often or frequent does this code pop?
Have you done any logs after blowing it away to try to capture some useful parameters about the conditions that it happens during?
What do your injector deviations and calibration points look like?

Code comes up after 10-16 miles running smoothly. But will come up immediately even shortly after starting car first time for the day if i step on gas aggresively. I have tried injector deviation parameters. From watching videos, seem to be within specs . I don't have access to the logs right now. I did try to log HPFP and lift pump activity at the same time while driving but according to ross tech, not able to on this model car. My plan was to log pumps and wait for code to pop up (glow plug flashing symbol) and stop the log and see what was happenning with pumps.

 

[TurboABA]

Full operating temp injector deviations @ idle should provide some idea as to the overall health of the system....
Injector calibration points should also give you hints. Based on what you're saying, I'd expect the 3rd calibration point to be out of whack, at least on one of the cylinders.

 

[jhort]

Injector Calibration points data is obtained during deviations logs also?

 

[TurboABA]

Negative... depending on controller you look them up in Advance MVBs or regular MVBs, etc.

 

[TurboABA]

For example

  IDE01387   Injector 1: rail pressure calibration point 1 
  IDE01388   Injector 1: rail pressure calibration point 2 
  IDE01389   Injector 1: rail pressure calibration point 3 
  IDE01390   Injector 2: rail pressure calibration point 1 
  IDE01391   Injector 2: rail pressure calibration point 2 
  IDE01392   Injector 2: rail pressure calibration point 3
  IDE01393   Injector 3: rail pressure calibration point 1 
  IDE01394   Injector 3: rail pressure calibration point 2 
  IDE01395   Injector 3: rail pressure calibration point 3 
  IDE01396   Injector 4: rail pressure calibration point 1 
  IDE01397   Injector 4: rail pressure calibration point 2
  IDE01398   Injector 4: rail pressure calibration point 3