DPF/EGR delete worth it?

[RUGsux72]

With diesel hovering around $4/gallon and steadily rising every day...I've been wondering if mpg will shoot up with a DPF/EGR delete on a '12 2.0 TDI w/DSG? If you've done it with a Malone tune, was it worth it? I'm looking merely at MPG boost...not going faster. Thanks in advance.

 

[akjdouglass]

If you get 8-10 mpg more and you drive a lot, at today's prices ($3.399 for me) it could pay for itself in just a couple years.

For me, the real benefit is never having to deal with the intercooler icing issue again.

 

[steets2008]

Coming from an initial stage 2 through malone with keeping DPF to Stage 2 with DPF removed I truthfully haven't noticed significant difference in mileage gains from a stage 2 comparison. However agree with above mores savings in costs of parts that can break. (i replaced mine since the pdf actually needed replacing)

 

[RUGsux72]

Really regretting not going with the buy back. Prior to Dieselgate...it ran perfectly...dieselgate fix was back in August of '18 and VW has replaced that damn DPF 3 times and the EGR twice. Out of extended warranty now and getting the damn P2002 code again. I truly miss my '98 1.9 TDI...timing belts and oil is all that was needed on her...should've never sold her. Thanks for your input...will be chewing my cheek a bit on this...

 

[My_name_is_Rob]

According to fuelly, I noticed a 5 mpg gain after I did my stage 2 and delete. I also did it for the mileage, and to get my EGTs down a little more. The low end torque made the drivability much better as well, especially in the sub 2000 rpm range.

 

[DivineChaos]

Deleting helps minutely with fuel mileage. But the larger bonus is that deleting all that crap makes your engine last longer and have fewer issues. I have not had one issue with my vehicle while the other one in the family has been in for service three times. And still has a bad O2 sensor. It's not a question of if the DPF will need to be replaced; it's when.

 

[MrCypherr]

Not having exhaust gas go back into your engine and soot everything up is a beautiful thing.

 

[DivineChaos]

these cars really need a catch can. Even with All that removed. I had 1/4" of brown goop in my bottom boost lines and ic. Granted it's been 50k miles since I had it off last.

 

[MrCypherr]

Although these cars need a catch can. Even with All that removed. I had 1/4" of brown goop in my bottom boost lines and ic. Granted it's been 50k miles since I had it off last.

I haven't had anything like that since I did that TSB with the intercooler kit.

 

[DivineChaos]

I haven't had anything like that since I did that TSB with the intercooler kit.

I probably should replace my pcv in the block. It's bad. I think it's not working correctly.

 

[oldsoul]

Just did DPF/EGR delete today with .5 tune (I know, very mild, not really looking for power, more for durability/MPG) from Tunezilla (Malone tune, I believe). Went with the Rawtech hardware (no resonator, no cat). Has a bit more growl to it under power, seems to be breathing a bit easier, and so far a slight 1.5-2 mpg increase. Only 40 miles so far though, so too early to tell. However, my DPF was cracked most likely and had been throwing codes for awhile.

So far my analysis, for what it's worth, you'll never get your money back in fuel economy alone. Financially, when it makes sense is when, not if, when your DPF goes bad, do the delete, if you can. Until then, don't worry about it. Again that's from a financial view only, and only my (quickly depreciating) two cents worth.

 

[turbobrick240]

Probably also only makes sense on a vehicle you intend to put over 100k miles on after the delete. Could make for awkward conversation when/if you sell the car down the road.

 

[oldsoul]

Just did DPF/EGR delete today with .5 tune (I know, very mild, not really looking for power, more for durability/MPG) from Tunezilla (Malone tune, I believe). Went with the Rawtech hardware (no resonator, no cat). Has a bit more growl to it under power, seems to be breathing a bit easier, and so far a slight 1.5-2 mpg increase. Only 40 miles so far though, so too early to tell. However, my DPF was cracked most likely and had been throwing codes for awhile.

So far my analysis, for what it's worth, you'll never get your money back in fuel economy alone. Financially, when it makes sense is when, not if, when your DPF goes bad, do the delete, if you can. Until then, don't worry about it. Again that's from a financial view only, and only my (quickly depreciating) two cents worth.

Day two update:
Morning commute, 38 miles mostly rural 60mph. Dash readout, notoriously inaccurate, tallies an overall average of 47mpg, trip at 48.5mpg. This computes to a 3 to 5.5 mpg increase over, "normal" before the delete. We'll see when I full up in a couple days, half with delete half without. Then a full tank with delete. Should be interesting.

 

[oilhammer]

With the CBEA/CJAA, most have noticed a ~5 MPG increase. The oil will go much longer, too (you can double the interval, really).

The difference in soot saturation of the oil is pretty dramatic, and best noticed when observing the used oil filter. The above pic is from a 1/4 million mile 2010, same Mann HU719/7x oil filter, same Pentosin SP3 5w30, same car, same engine, same driver, same routine. His only complaint is that it does take a bit longer to warm up, but beyond that it has been perfect. No more warning lights, no limp mode, no blow-torching the turbo during a regen (no regens).

 

[turbobrick240]

I question how many miles are really on that filter on the right. I did a dozen 10k mile change intervals post delete and the filters were always black- like every other diesel I've owned. My car was modded and tuned, but not so heavily as to make it a soot monster. I did notice that after boxing up an old filter and letting it sit on the shelf for months that a lot of the oil and color drained away.

 

[Stromaluski]

With the CBEA/CJAA, most have noticed a ~5 MPG increase. The oil will go much longer, too (you can double the interval, really).

The difference in soot saturation of the oil is pretty dramatic, and best noticed when observing the used oil filter. The above pic is from a 1/4 million mile 2010, same Mann HU719/7x oil filter, same Pentosin SP3 5w30, same car, same engine, same driver, same routine. His only complaint is that it does take a bit longer to warm up, but beyond that it has been perfect. No more warning lights, no limp mode, no blow-torching the turbo during a regen (no regens).

Is it the tune or the delete that is giving the benefits? I still have all the emissions equipment on my car, but have a stage 2 Malone tune.

 

[oilhammer]

If the DPF is gone, there is no DPF to regenerate. Regens take a bunch of fuel to accomplish. So no, it is not just a tune alone that will increase the MPG on a CR TDI. However, the tuners can dial back the EGR, which lessens the soot load, which lessens the need for as many DPF regens.

In a perfect world, if diesels were allowed to do what they do best, and run SUPER DUPER lean, there would be very little soot, no smoke at all, and little need for a DPF in the first place. But the EPA has a hard-on for NOx, which is in many cases a bit of a red herring, and to decrease it, literally EVERYTHING else gets increased. Often by quite a bit. More HC, more CO, much more CO2, and more PM.

 

[turbobrick240]

A lot of those pollutant increases are due to the way that VW attempted to cheat the system. A properly designed and implemented SCR system(with DPF) doesn't have nearly the amount of compromise. Other than costing a bit more to license/produce.

 

[oilhammer]

And yet, the SCR-equipped diesels were also thwarted away.... and the manual CKRAs had no "fix" so they were either left alone or crushed. SCR on paper is a good thing (for NOx), but in the real world they can be fragile, costly, and troublesome. I have some Sprinters here with 300k+ miles on them that have literally had ZERO problems EXCEPT for things related to SCR. DEF tank heaters, leaky injectors, NOx sensors, pumps, etc.

But I agree, they do in theory allow the diesels to run leaner, because NOx reduction is a post-combustion thing with SCR, unlike EGR which is a during combustion NOx reduction strategy, and anything of that nature by default forces the system to use more fuel and produce more soot. This is why [when everything is working correctly] the CKRA could get better MPG than the CJAA, despite moving a bigger heavier car.

The engineer from Bosch, can't remember his name, couldn't pronounce it anyway, talked about how the regulators are seemingly stacked against the diesels and they cannot seem to grasp that the entire operational characteristics of them are just different than gasoline engines, and the "trying to fit a square peg in a round hole" method is just not going to work. He also brought up the quite staggering figure of just how much extra fossil fuels are consumed every year due to this anti-diesel agenda. Ban 50 MPG cars, but bring on as many 15 MPG pickups and SUVs, because "environment". Ridiculous. Nobody is trying to force gasoline engines to get the MPGs that diesels have been easily capable of doing for literally decades. Because nobody would dare try and fit a round peg in a square hole.

 

[oldsoul]

Update:

So, I have a couple of fill ups on the new downpipe and tune. On the first one I drove the speed limit, up to 60mph, and got 47.8mpg. Again mostly rural, 40 mile trips. Second one, I wanted to see what would happen if I increased max speed to 65mph, top speed limit on the route for about 22 miles. I was able to average 42.9mpg. Not what I was expecting but still pretty good. I have logged a couple of 50+ mpg(on the notoriously inaccurate dash display) on early morning(pre-dawn) runs off the same 40 ish miles.

My, still early, determination, when comparing apples to apples a best I can, is a 5.3mpg increase. That equates, at current prices in my area, to about a 1.25-1.5 cent per mile decrease in cost. Now that doesn't sound like much, but it equates to about a dollar in fuel savings per trip. Or $5 per week, and about $250 per year. At that rate, with a cost for parts of 1,400(did the work myself) I would need to run this way for a little over five and a half years, 112,000 miles, to break even. Quite doable, as that would put me at about a quarter million miles on the car.

Here's to hoping I can remain accident free, and major breakdown free until 2028!

 

[djjaes]

Kinda late but thinking of a delete on my 13 Jetta, it has currently 152K miles and the cracked DPF was fixed under diesel gate warranty at around 119K miles...I still cannot get a clear answer on the cost or who could do it (as I am ok with some small things but a delete is beyond my talents under the bonnet).

 

[Stromaluski]

In a perfect world, if diesels were allowed to do what they do best, and run SUPER DUPER lean, there would be very little soot, no smoke at all, and little need for a DPF in the first place. But the EPA has a hard-on for NOx, which is in many cases a bit of a red herring, and to decrease it, literally EVERYTHING else gets increased. Often by quite a bit. More HC, more CO, much more CO2, and more PM.

Is running super duper lean something one of the aftermarket tunes could accomplish or is it more complex than that?

 

[oldsoul]

Kinda late but thinking of a delete on my 13 Jetta, it has currently 152K miles and the cracked DPF was fixed under diesel gate warranty at around 119K miles...I still cannot get a clear answer on the cost or who could do it (as I am ok with some small things but a delete is beyond my talents under the bonnet).

Whether or not it's "worth it"is really a personal preference/ financial question. As for who can do it? Having done it myself following the excellent step by step from Rawtech, any semi-professional mechanic can manage quite well. I had access to a lift which makes it much easier, but it can be done without one. It takes around six hours to do, so multiply that by the shop rate if your paying for install. Total cost for parts and tune is about $1,400. See my last write-up for my financial analysis on my cost, versus mileage increase, and you should be in a much better position to decide if it's "worth it" for you.

 

[Paulman]

Buy parts and a tune off-shore.
Have a talented technician install them. It's the best performance upgrade these engines could have.

 

[djjaes]

Whether or not it's "worth it"is really a personal preference/ financial question. As for who can do it? Having done it myself following the excellent step by step from Rawtech, any semi-professional mechanic can manage quite well. I had access to a lift which makes it much easier, but it can be done without one. It takes around six hours to do, so multiply that by the shop rate if your paying for install. Total cost for parts and tune is about $1,400. See my last write-up for my financial analysis on my cost, versus mileage increase, and you should be in a much better position to decide if it's "worth it" for you.

Thanks, I'll def look into it.

 

[yadic]

Just did DPF/EGR delete today with .5 tune (I know, very mild, not really looking for power, more for durability/MPG) from Tunezilla (Malone tune, I believe). Went with the Rawtech hardware (no resonator, no cat). Has a bit more growl to it under power, seems to be breathing a bit easier, and so far a slight 1.5-2 mpg increase. Only 40 miles so far though, so too early to tell. However, my DPF was cracked most likely and had been throwing codes for awhile.

So far my analysis, for what it's worth, you'll never get your money back in fuel economy alone. Financially, when it makes sense is when, not if, when your DPF goes bad, do the 2008 6.4 egr delete kit, if you can. Until then, don't worry about it. Again that's from a financial view only, and only my (quickly depreciating) two cents worth.

Hey! My brother just purchased a 2006 f350 6.0 auto truck and we are wondering: if you put on an egr delete tune do you need to remove the valve and cooler? It has a coolant filter from sinister diesel and the previous owner had the whole egr system replaced but with the stock parts.

Also who is a good tuning company to go with? I have heard good things about bully dog and sct but I am just wondering what you guys suggest.

 

[unsung]

Hey! My brother just purchased a 2006 f350 6.0 auto truck and we are wondering: if you put on an egr delete tune do you need to remove the valve and cooler? It has a coolant filter from sinister diesel and the previous owner had the whole egr system replaced but with the stock parts.

Also who is a good tuning company to go with? I have heard good things about bully dog and sct but I am just wondering what you guys suggest.

SCT is the hardware (but the tune is canned and kinda sucks), I went with Innovative for my 6.0 tune. I run the street 100%, will tow fine under 10k and isn't as wild as the performance. I could switch it at any time. Contact Alex Jennings on FB or email aj@idspeedshop.com