DPF cleaning solutions

witchcraftz

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After a two hour drive at 2500 RPM at 120 km/h I suspect that it is a boost leak as you initially thought. Car has low power especially at low or high revs.

The measured soot is 0
Calculated is 60

This makes me think it's probably not the DPF. Where are common boost leak areas?
 
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pdq import repair

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idaho
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09 Jetta
mine had a boost leak at the intercooler tube right off the turbo due to a misaligned clamp not seated well. I had been noticing a little oil seepage near there that I thought was the valve cover running down onto it. When I smoked the intake it was apparent. Fixed my DPF plugging code I was getting.

I had a Tourag with the same code and found a split turbo hose after smoking it out. It was hiding under an abrasion protection cover on the hose. The tourag owner owns a transmission shop in town and had taken the DPF off and to the truck shop to have it cooked out in their kiln. We got to see it after that didn't fix it.
 

meerschm

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meerschm

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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
After a two hour drive at 2500 RPM at 120 km/h I suspect that it is a boost leak as you initially thought. Car has low power especially at low or high revs.

The measured soot is 0
Calculated is 60

This tells me it's not the DPF. Where are common boost leak areas?

you should be able to watch requested boost and compare to actual boost.

it may be possible that the accident that caused suspension parts to be changed out may have smacked any of the parts. (rigid hoses, intercooler,...even the throttle or hp egr valves.
 
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witchcraftz

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2015 Golf TDI
Yes, that is where I went, I entered the security code correctly.
Then I go to adaptation but there is nothing in the list for DPF reset or DPF Initialize unfortunately.

I also checked Basic Settings. I did this in most of the modules, airbag, transmission, instruments, etc.

Nothing found, maybe it's not something that can be set on this engine.


During the drive I maxed out at 120 km/h on flat roads.

I had major power loss, couldn't go up hills at speed in any gear, in fact when it geared down and revved high, I seemed to loose more power.

On another hand, I did notice that there *seemed* to be an minor improvement in power after that 2 hour drive at slower speeds. Of course it might be me just imagining things as I've gotten used to the car.


This is from the ross-tech virtual tour http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/open_screen.php

when you open the engine controller, is this the screen you see?

if so, the security access button would be the next step.

you probably want to read this first

http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/securityaccess.html

Except during a regeneration, I never have seen the calculated soot decrease.
 
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witchcraftz

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2015 Golf TDI
I recently updated the VCDS firmware, two weeks ago I think, but I'll check again tonight.
 
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meerschm

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suggestion from the ross-tech site is you need an ECU update. seems there is a TSB.

one way or the other, you may need to engage a local dealer at some point.

The TSB should be on erWin, at a price, may be on alldatadiy.com, but not sure they have the 2015 info yet.

If you find more info on the applicable TSB, and what the update does, I would be interested in the details.
 
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witchcraftz

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2015 Golf TDI
I'm contacting a dealership about getting the ECM update done. Will post here again after.

Update: (contacted 3 dealerships) VW is saying there is no TSB for the ECU and that if it needs an update it will cost an 1hr-3hr shop time ($150-$450).

I looked here for the TSB but didn't find anything either.
http://www.autosafety.org/vehicle-database/?tid=234694#

Any chance Jack can be more specific on the TSB?
 
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witchcraftz

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2015 Golf TDI
I did a new quick test, I disconnected both Pressure sensors so that no pressure difference would be read. Then I started the engine and revved it a couple of times to 2500 RPM.

I figured this will allow me to tell which of the "Measured" or "Calculated" is relevant to the DPF pressure. Whichever one uses the pressure sensor will have a drastic drop in the values.

From the log it looks like the Measured Soot is calculated from the pressure sensors.
The value quickly dropped into the negatives, or became unchanging, and stayed down there, whereas before it would fluctuate.

VCDS Log with both sensors unplugged
 
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witchcraftz

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2015 Golf TDI
Thanks to a mechanic friend I now have the TSB for the DPF reprogram.

Condition

01 15 09 April 24, 2015 2040057 Supersedes Technical Bulletin V011504 dated March 12, 2015 to include service

regeneration time in GFF time to assist SAGA claiming.

Update Programing, MIL ON, Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) Faults P2458, P2463 Stored in ECM Fault


Memory

One or more of the following DTCs may be stored in the ECM Fault memory:

Fault Code Fault Description

P2463 Diesel Particulate Filter - Soot Accumulation

P2458 Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration Duration


Note:

DO NOT diagnose or replace components due to DPF faults before performing the update function as explained in this bulletin.


Technical Background

Deviation between the calculated and the actual soot mass of the particulate matter trap causing P2463.

Incorrect data for the particulate matter trap regeneration time causing P2458.


Production Solution

Improved software implemented into production.
Can someone sticky this TSB?

TSB 131682 File
 

meerschm

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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5184794&postcount=353

I posted a copy of the TSB, and added a post to the common issues thread, which is stickied. title should let folks with the error find in search.

Good work on finding the TSB, (thanks to your friend)

Perhaps your local VW service folks will be able to find the TSB after you show them a copy.

(I have had service advisors, otherwise well thought of here, not be able to find a TSB. Not sure if VW makes it hard to find, or if they just need a little help.)
 

witchcraftz

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Location
Vancouver BC
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2015 Golf TDI
Going to call and make an appointment to have the TSB applied.

Hopefully it will resolve my issue.

Will keep you informed. Thanks for all the help!
 

witchcraftz

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2015 Golf TDI
Car is in the dealership, time estimated for the software update is 1.5 hours.

UPDATE:
Upgrade is not under warranty so I will have to pay for the software upgrade out of pocket.

Dealership upgraded the software then forced a DPF regen.

Measured soot = 2.5
Calculated soot = 60

So it's not the "only" problem I had.

I'm getting very frustrated with this. :(

Anyone have a how to our instructions on removing the DPF?
I want to see inside it for myself.
 
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meerschm

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you might try to use VCDS to reset that soot value after you had the patch done.
 

witchcraftz

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VCDS wouldn't let me reset the value, I think it limits it if it's over 50 mg too.

I'm going to take a second look at the exhaust temperature sensors, that is the most unusual readings.
 

meerschm

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Fairfax county VA
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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Were you able to see the security access balloon, and enter the security access,

then see an adaptation pull down for soot reset, or DPF initialization or similar?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5182660&postcount=25

I looked on my car last week, and it seemed a little tricky to get the balloon to show up. at first it did not, but when I closed and re-opened VCDS, and went to the engine controller then security access, it showed up with a code number that let me get to the reset adaptations.
 
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meerschm

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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Just looked again at vcds on my car. the adaptation screen for me has the reset, but will not let you do the reset until you enter the security access first.

(I think that is why they call it security access. you have to show you really want to do the reset)
 

witchcraftz

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Hmm, I"ll try again.

On another note do you know where is Exhaust temperature 2 bank 1?
What is the part number?
 

meerschm

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Fairfax county VA
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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
the SSP for the EA288 refers to the three exhaust sensors

G235 Exhaust Gas Temperature Sensor 1
G495 Exhaust Gas Temperature Sensor 3
G648 Exhaust Gas Temperature Sensor 4

and they are shown in figures. before the turbo, and before and after the DPF.

VCDS seems to show data with different identifiers.

(I know this is VWs fault, probably a hardware/software issue)

the only way I could guess would be to unplug and check the result with VCDS.

I have terrible luck with the connectors, managing to snap parts in some cases, so advise care in disconnecting
 

witchcraftz

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Location
Vancouver BC
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2015 Golf TDI
the SSP for the EA288 refers to the three exhaust sensors

G235 Exhaust Gas Temperature Sensor 1
G495 Exhaust Gas Temperature Sensor 3
G648 Exhaust Gas Temperature Sensor 4

and they are shown in figures. before the turbo, and before and after the DPF.

VCDS seems to show data with different identifiers.

(I know this is VWs fault, probably a hardware/software issue)

the only way I could guess would be to unplug and check the result with VCDS.

I have terrible luck with the connectors, managing to snap parts in some cases, so advise care in disconnecting
Haha, I know what you mean, but so far on the MK7 it seems the connectors are all standard "press-the-tab-and-pull-out" so no broken ones yet!

Reading the SSP, it seems that Exhaust temperature sensor 3 might be the most obvious culprit:

Actions to Raise the Exhaust Temperature During Active Regeneration

For the calculation of the injection quantity for the
retarded post-injection, the ECM uses the signal from
G495 Exhaust Gas Temperature Sensor 3
 
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witchcraftz

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2015 Golf TDI
There is still no "Carbon Mass (DPF Replacement)" or "Particle filter initialization" in the list as you can see in the menu drop down below.

So for my car it is not showing the same menu items as expected on the VCDS website instructions.




Tried to do "adaptation of ash mass" in the Adaptation menu. Even though it already reads zero.

I got an uninitialized control module warning.

 
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meerschm

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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?8409-2015-TDI-DPF-reset&p=79316&viewfull=1#post79316

I posted a follow-up question on the ross tech forum. some of the folks who post there do so from work, and take the weekends off.

agree that the list of offered options is quite different for your engine than mine or other earlier cars.

that being said, there still should be some way to reset the computer estimate of calculated soot, such as would be needed after replacing the DPF.
 

witchcraftz

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Vancouver BC
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2015 Golf TDI
I agree, which is what I was hoping the adaptation of mass ash would be.

Physical inspection:

I disconnected the top 2 most EGT sensors (1 & 3) and the Adblue injector. The sensors were a bit dusty but not damaged from what I can see. I cleaned them with some water and the connections with electrical contact cleaner. An ohm-meter reads 25.6 kOhm for both.

The 3rd EGT sensor (4) is really difficult to access due to all the other wiring and tubing around it so I wasn't able to remove and physically inspect it. the Ohm-meter read 36 kOhm on it but it seems it might be a slightly different design than the first 2.

Peeking inside the DPF I had a little bit of soot and a little ash. I used a thin long bristled brush to brush the inside of the DPF to loosen anything.
I then used my shopvac (cleaned first) to suck up anything. The shop vac didn't have much resistance in terms of suction (it's noise pitch stayed almost the same) but it sucked up a little bit of black soot and some white ash.

Then I used some compressed air and tried to blow out anything extra, but nothing came out. So nothing much blocking the DPF physically.

I buttoned it all back up together.
 
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witchcraftz

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Yikes, I'm guessing I've hit the "And here there be Monsters" zone.

Hopefully I can figure it out on my own from here on!
 

meerschm

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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Posted a couple follow-on questions here and there, but no one has responded.

I might be inclined to look around with VCDS.

you would think someone has replaced a DPF, but it may be that if some one did, it was a dealer, or someone who does not participate in info sharing online.

there is only one model year involved, so the population is hot huge, and the fraction of these which had any problems with the DPF is likely small. (some DEF leaks but that is outside the actual DPF)

since you own a VCDS, you can register on the ross tech site, and shake the bushes directly.
 

witchcraftz

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Vancouver BC
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2015 Golf TDI
I played around with the adaptation of mass ash. I think that the fact that the module is not initialized may be the issue.

I managed to initialize it by setting it to 60g, then saving.
Then I set it to zero and saved again.

I had the Calculated soot showing in advanced measurements, the calculated soot dropped to 7! :)

I've driven it around the block and it's not limp mode anymore.

I'm going to keep checking the value in case it starts rising again, but at this point with I feel confident it's ok.
 
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meerschm

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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Great news!

so it sounds like the ash mass adaptation also resets the calculated soot level.

this makes sense.


now you might want to reset engine codes, and keep an eye on it, to verify the system runs DPF regerations when it needs to, and that the emission readiness clears.

After resetting error codes, you want to watch, and not reset anything else, until you see that everything is happy. two or three hundred miles should do the trick.
 

witchcraftz

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Definitely good advice Meerschm.

There were no other codes except the DPF error, and it has not come back driving it this morning.

Pressing the gas pedal hard it now causes the car to accelerate fast and it has good torque.

I'd like to add to this thread, to anyone who is reading this and intends to reset the Ash Mass, be careful. In my case I've done a series of physical inspections to make sure my DPF was not actually plugged. If your DPF is plugged or half plugged and you do this you might make it worse.
 
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