DPF cleaned?

[texasvw]

Never posted here before. I was reading the "DPF replacement tutorial?" with attention to @oilhammer comments. My 2014 Sportwagen was taken to dealer about a month ago because the CEL threw a code and was complaining that the DPF needed to regenerate. We couldn't get the light to go out so we took it to ParkNorthVW. Car had slightly less than 120K miles at say 119,650 miles, so under warranty... The dealer said they fixed the DPF and gave it back to us. After about 300 miles and 3 or so days, the CEL and DPF lights reappear. Dealer says they need to file paper work with VW corporate and see if the DPF can be replace or if they can buy back the vehicle under the diesel gate issues. The vehicle has had the recall issues done. Back to dealer.

So, now ~119,950 miles, 50 miles to go on warranty. Dealer said to my son that the DFP light was on because the part they used may not have been recognized by the ECU and now throwing a code. Part? What part? The service advisor said they cleaned the DPF and good to go, almost ready to pick it up...then, they said they tested it and that the NOX sensor was causing the DPF light to reappear. Then they said the Catalytic-converter needed to be replaced, for free. They said they did that and now the issues are gone, e.g. no CEL or codes. Now the car is ready to go again...with unknown miles on the speedo since it was in their hands for the past 4+ weeks.

@oilhammer says 99% of the time the DPF is broken/cracked. Why won't the dealer admit it is an issue and why won't VW authorize the replacement for $1200 parts cost.

Any advice on how to get the dealership to commit to an extension over the 120,000 mile warranty and guarantee the problem is solved. Im sure the issue is just waiting to appear as soon as we get across town and the speedo is over 120,000 miles.

Love the car and will delete the DPF when it fails again.

 

[Lightflyer1]

If it is documented and never able to be fixed it is still covered.

 

[texasvw]

@Lightflyer1 One would hope ... and expect integrity.

 

[Lightflyer1]

I have VCDS if you need a scan for anything. right next door too.

 

[texasvw]

s

I have VCDS if you need a scan for anything. right next door too.

Thank. you for the offer... I have that tool also, and tried to get the tool to start the regeration but it would not do anything.
I spoke to the service advisor and he said "NOX" and catalytic converter were replaced and that was what had inhibited the ECU to imitate the regeneration previously... so there is that. They don't admit that the DPF could be broken, but do admit it is at end of life.

Unfortunately if anything DPF related happens again it would necessarily have to go back to that dealer to resolve since they have story history and other dealers cannot see that info, just the part add to the vehicle.

 

[texasvw]

The CEL light came back on recently, no DPF light yet ... now at 120,880 miles. The Park North in San Antonio has pushed off the replacement of the DPF citing that the test plan hasn't allowed for the replacement, and only a NOX and Catalytic COnverter code clear... they didnt admit to fixing anything really...just that a regen cleared codes according to the test plan.
In January of 2023, they did a warranty replacement of the Intake Manifold because it was filled with crud.

Currently, the exhaust pipe is thick with soot. I asked they why them didn't acknowledge the soot and the service advisor said there would always be soot at the tailpipe. I mentioned that the interenet forums were littered with posts of cracked DPF's. He said if the DPF was cracked, there would be soot all over the engine. Probably true, but how does a cracked DPF manifest itself is my question. DOES it fracture internally? Will the car allow a regen cycle if it is cracked?

The dealer has made an appt for 11/14 to look at the CEL codes. When they get it back it will be over the 120K warranty, so we'll see how far they take it.

 

[turbodieseldyke]

He said if the DPF was cracked, there would be soot all over the engine. Probably true, but how does a cracked DPF manifest itself is my question. DOES it fracture internally?

"Trust me, i'm an expert."

You're right, the crack is internal. If they were external, you'd see & hear of welding fixes, JB-weld, etc.

 

[AverageAndy]

Currently, the exhaust pipe is thick with soot. I asked they why them didn't acknowledge the soot and the service advisor said there would always be soot at the tailpipe. I mentioned that the interenet forums were littered with posts of cracked DPF's. He said if the DPF was cracked, there would be soot all over the engine.

He is wrong. Good intact DPF = no soot in tailpipe, internally cracked DPF = soot in tail pipe. Cracked DPF and exhaust leak may lead to soot in engine.

Check out any newer truck with a DPF (including semis), exhaust pipe is squeaky clean. Any of the older, or newer deleted and tuned trucks will have soot and likely roll some amount of coal.

 

[texasvw]

Gotta check this out!

So, I got the service advisor to send me the history since January when the problems were reported. And got the final invoice from the service on Sept 1, 2023 - Sept 26, 2023. The story started in Jan 2023 when the car went in for a clogged intake manifold. The warranty replaced the intake manifold because it was horribly clogged. That is the first clue there were issues. Here is the service log for that. (the back story was I gave the Sportwagen to my son and daughter-in-law to drive in Oct 2022 while their Hyundai Santa Fe had the engine replaced because of Knock Sensor! Well-known issues with those engines. My son 31, bless his heart, has no real clue about cars, although a great Modern Warfare player! He and his wife dealt with the dealership which kept pushing the problem down the proverbial road. I would get reports about how the dealership was fixing the issues but I didn't get involved with the millennial business for obvious reasons.)

Mileage 108623 - Open Date: 01/04/2023 Intake Manifold replaced

ROST_manifold.jpg

• texasvw
• Nov 8, 2023

dealer_description of manifold replacement

Mileage 114644 - 06/21/2023 Then in June the CEL went on, with the DPF light.

ROST_DPF_114657.jpg

• texasvw
• Nov 8, 2023

July DFP regen attempt 114657.

Then last attempt to fix the DPF:
Mileage 119960 Open Date: 11/01/2023 CEL/DPF light on.

rost_invoice.jpg

• texasvw
• Nov 8, 2023

As you can see in the last invoice, at 119960 miles, the car was at the dealership before the 120k warranty expiration, just barely. The Dealer drove the car over the warranty period mileage expiration trying to get the DPF light to go out, etc...

The service report is very detailed. I'm not following all the nuances but it looks like they are having issues getting the DPF to work.

I ultimately opened a warranty/complaint issue with VW North America. They have declined to help saying that now the car is out of Warranty at 120,881 miles, with the CEL back on. They state that it will be up to the dealership to acknowledge any warranty claim and PAY for any repairs.

Does anybody following this thread think I have a good case that the Emissions warranty should apply to the DFP replacement?

 

[oilhammer]

LOL.... dealers....

The stupid thing is, there was a TSB for the DPFs internally cracked BEFORE the whole Dieselgate nonsense and silly warranty extensions came about. How these idiots can keep playing the Dumb card (must have a whole deck of 'em!) is beyond me.

What is NOT beyond me is why deletes are so popular.

 

[TurboABA]

So I'm unclear, did you pickup the car after all that work and it still had a CEL on?

 

[texasvw]

Not personally. The car was in the care of my 31yo since October last year when I bought it for him and wife. But, yes, it was finally picked up last week of Sept. 2023 when they said they'd cleared the codes and test drove it for ~300 miles to prove it worked. My kid went to pick up the car from the Dealer, about 120 miles away and brought it home to me. Now car is in my possession. I drove it about 40 miles since it got here and BINGO!, CEL came on. Now the GLOW Plug light is flashing and the DPF light is on too... weeee. Just keeps getting fun(nier) and funnier. Got an appt back in San Antonio from near Austin on Wed because VW Customer car refused me to take it locally for the warranty claim...siad I MUST go back to the dealer that did the previous work since it is now OUT of Warranty.

 

[texasvw]

LOL.... dealers....

The stupid thing is, there was a TSB for the DPFs internally cracked BEFORE the whole Dieselgate nonsense and silly warranty extensions came about. How these idiots can keep playing the Dumb card (must have a whole deck of 'em!) is beyond me.

What is NOT beyond me is why deletes are so popular.

Hey @oilhammer , can you point me to the actual TSB you mentioned please? There seems to be a lot of TSB out there when searching.
Thanks in advance.

 

[oilhammer]

google always works:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/SB-10089088-0699.pdf

That was the second hit down (the first being a link to one of the many threads here) when I simply searched 'CJAA cracked DPF TSB'.

 

[texasvw]

So, I dropped the car back off to the NorthPark VW in San Antonio, with the glow plug light flashing now and two codes for CEL, P2002 and P2564.
The dealer's service advisor said that VW America called (because I opened two cases with all the documentation from the dealer since January 2023) to say 'they' were not going to pay for any repairs. The dealer's sa said they would check out the codes to see if/how they related to previous work.

Other posts in TDI forums elsewhere recommend meeting with the dealership owner and service dept manager in private and telling them you intend to escalate the issue to claims court, and not give up. Call claims court costs about $500 when all is said and done (guestimate)... but they also say you need good documentation, possibly reporting to the FTC, Secretary of State Trade affairs, etc... so it is definitely a process. I wonder if anyone reading this thread has had a successful outcome and what did the "court documents" look like that were submitted? I saw and lost a google search that showed a link to a site that will prepare a written legal statement to help with the small claims suit. ANYBODY see a site like that?

Maybe the dealer will acquiesce.

 

[texasvw]

google always works:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/SB-10089088-0699.pdf

That was the second hit down (the first being a link to one of the many threads here) when I simply searched 'CJAA cracked DPF TSB'.

Oh that one! Well, Im not currently getting the P0401 code. I am getting P2002 tho and lots of soot. The dealer said today they dont see the P2002 code when they scanned but only the Turbo P2564 code. I may have inadvertently cleared it while trying not to go into limp mode so I could make the 120 mile drive from here to the dealer.

Does the car store the past codes? Hopefully!

My case is unraveling and now dealer is celebrating my misfortune. I asked them to explain why the soot level was so high then out the exhaust and asked that the tech look into it. What else is there?

wrt the P2564, they did say it was a tube that was cracked... what is that rubber tube that is cracked and is there a part easily found?

 

[TurboABA]

Post your full scan. There's tons of useful info in the FF data.

 

[texasvw]

Post your full scan. There's tons of useful info in the FF data.

Thanks for the reply... Full scan from what exactly. Anyways, I'm not in possession of the vehicle now...its 120 miles away at the dealer.

 

[oilhammer]

If you have soot in your tailpipes, your DPF is bad. Period.

Here:

CBEA/CJAA DPF info

Mods, please make this a sticky so I can easily point people here. When (not if) your CBEA or CJAA car flags the DTCs P2002, P0401, and sometimes P240F, and your car will have sooty tailpipes, YOUR DPF HAS FAILED. It is BROKEN. It cannot be cleaned. It will need to be replaced. This is the...

forums.tdiclub.com

Seriously, this is so common.... I've done one this week, and had another one in that needed one. They keep running out of them, and they go on backorder and then come back. The factory that makes them has to be working overtime.

The P0401 code or the P2002 can be stored, along with possibly a third DTC (see the TSB). But it really doesn't matter. Soot in tailpipes = DPF is cracked. Don't waste a bunch of time looking for an easy way out. You needn't look at scan tool data or any other such nonsense. You cannot clean it. Sooty tailpipes = DPF is cracked. It is CRACKED. It is BAD.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

When I had my turbo go out the first time, I didn't have a CEL. (Was tuned and flash it back to stock for dealer). But the service manager entered it in anyway as he herd the siren noise.

But they did a half a$$ job and didn't clean the intake and the turbo went out in 17k miles. They also didn't torque all the oil pan bolts either.

The warranty could be great but I had a bad experience with them. Now out of warranty and deleted, best decision ever.

 

[texasvw]

If you have soot in your tailpipes, your DPF is bad. Period.

Here:

CBEA/CJAA DPF info

Mods, please make this a sticky so I can easily point people here. When (not if) your CBEA or CJAA car flags the DTCs P2002, P0401, and sometimes P240F, and your car will have sooty tailpipes, YOUR DPF HAS FAILED. It is BROKEN. It cannot be cleaned. It will need to be replaced. This is the...

forums.tdiclub.com

Seriously, this is so common.... I've done one this week, and had another one in that needed one. They keep running out of them, and they go on backorder and then come back. The factory that makes them has to be working overtime.

The P0401 code or the P2002 can be stored, along with possibly a third DTC (see the TSB). But it really doesn't matter. Soot in tailpipes = DPF is cracked. Don't waste a bunch of time looking for an easy way out. You needn't look at scan tool data or any other such nonsense. You cannot clean it. Sooty tailpipes = DPF is cracked. It is CRACKED. It is BAD.

Quick edit: @oilhammer, did VW fix the issue wrt the cracking DPF, or are all the new parts doomed to potentially crack as well? Some get 50k, some get 180k... why do they fail?

Well, I'm upside down in the wagen now compared for to what it might sell. (2014 @ 120,910) I've read your CJAA Sportwagon is 6.7hr 30 +step quick start guide and Rawtek's. I think a lift is required if the front wheels need to be removed). If it weren't so difficult to put the DPF hollowed out back into the engine bay, I'd forgo the cost of the pipe replacement and save the ~$1000 and just do a tune. My thought is will it sell better with DPF deleted (or hollowed out) or DPF replaced? Anybody have good luck finding buyers in 2023 for this particular 2014 VW Sportwagen.

I'm still waiting for the hammer to fall wrt the dealer report that they are not going to be moving forward to replace the DPF under warranty even though it was brought in twice well before the 120k mile expiration with CEL and codes.

7hrs x $140 = $980 labor seems relatively fair + $1000 DPF/EGR delete + $500 tune (realistically $1850 with tool shipping, tax etc.) ~= $3000 vs dealer job at $4600 (just guessing but that's what others have posted).

BTW, is this the entire parts package, less the clamps from VW dealer?

parts@okcvw.com
Pipe. Converter. Exhaust. (Front). $946 + $36 shipping
Part Number: 1K0254708GX
Supersession(s): 1K0-254-708-GX; 1K0254706LX

2014 Volkswagen Jetta 2.0L TDI DIESEL A/T Pipe. Converter. Exhaust. (Front) - 1K0254708GX | Oklahoma City Volkswagen, Oklahoma City OK

Pipe. Converter. Exhaust. (Front). 2014 Volkswagen Jetta 2.0L TDI DIESEL A/T. Genuine Volkswagen Part - 1K0254708GX (1K0-254-708-GX, 1K0254706LX). Ships from Oklahoma City Volkswagen, Oklahoma City OK

www.okcvwparts.com

@oilhammer No easy way out is an understatement for sure. Thanks for the input! Much appreciated!

 

[turbodieseldyke]

Hollowing out & replacing would be much more feasible if the clamp was right underneath the DPF body, instead of near the cat.

 

[oilhammer]

They only way to fix it for good is to delete it. As to why some last longer than others, I do not know, other than to say obviously the driving style may differ.

Good news is, the only ones I have had to replace more than once on the same car are on higher mileage ones. But that may just be because so many people dump the car before a second one dies (or they just delete it).

 

[texasvw]

The car is back at dealer with a CEL. 120,880miles. Had at least a P2002 code, and a new P2564 turbo code. A few more question here. I’m nearing a point where the servicing dealer may give in if I can piece together the failure cause and the missed diagnoses.

Back history: in Jan 2023, engine code P2015 indicated intake manifold valve failed. They replaced it. In July, a NOX issue was seen at July service Issue when DPF had a regen issue. The car would NOT regen after proper driving For over 150 miles. We took car in to fix the DPF issue, but notice there is no mention of the code causing the CEC nor the DPF light that was flashing. In post #9 I included the last technical review of the work done In Sept. In there the tech said the mvb level was 11mgs load. It’s was advised to replace NOX and catalytic converter After inspection. They were clogged or something. It was noted that a DPF regen was started and reduced the mvb load to 3.9mgs.

I don’t know exactly how the system functions and I need a logical understanding of how these failures are related. If the dpf is cracked, soot will pass thru to the other components. I can see that as a reason for failure Of down stream emissions components. Is that what is happening here? Why would the service plan not call out a failing DPF? Why hasn’t the EGR shown a failure? I do t see it ever mention in any diagnostics.

Questions:
0. Was the intake manifold carbon build up a sign that the dpf was failing? (Jan 2023)
1. How could the regen lower the mvb level to 3.9mgs if the DPF were truly cracked/broken? Will it function if cracked? (Sept 2023)
2. If the DPF were functioning correctly, would the NSC and NOx catalyst fail as described?
3. isn’t the EGR valve downstream of the the DPF? Surely it would be clogged by now.


Thanks for any insight to this common issue. Hopefully the end is near.

 

[oilhammer]

The intake failure is another common thing, and unrelated to the other stuff although I've heard some say that driving with the intake runner control non-functional long enough will mess with the DPF and deNOx regen process. I have no evidence that is true or not true. However, the airflow control is critical to proper regen, and maybe if the ECU sees the dual port control messed up, it will inhibit this, but for how long?

 

[TurboABA]

If you guys are talking about the throttle valve, then yes, it craps on the system because it's used in both EGR and Regen cycles to control airflow.

 

[texasvw]

So it is obvious all the systems are very interrelated and dependent, otherwise they wouldn’t be needed. When I bought the car the one year ago 11/11/2022 - 102,691 I had it taken by the used car seller to the local VW dealer in Temple, TX To be checked out. They did their multipoint inspect and said good to go. Within a month the CEL was on With the problem being intake manifold flap thing. 01/04/2023 - 108,623. Since it takes weeks to get an appt, it wasn’t until after Xmas in January that the manifold issue was addressed under warranty. Of course they don’t want to look at down stream components that may be near critical, with only 11,000 miles to go on warranty. Not in the Plan.

@oilhammer , @TurboABA , @turbodieseldyke can yanyone explain the DPF regen if the filter screen is broken/cracked? Where is the heating element that super heats it for cleaning? Wouldn’t that be nonfunctional if the dpf were cracked? Cracked/broken how? Into pieces?

Additionally, on Wed, two days ago, I opened a Tx DMV Lemon law complaint against the service dealer in San Antonio. On the form I listed the selling used car dealer. Late yesterday day I got a call from the VW dealer in Temple who inspected the car prior to purchase. I wasn’t able to answer the call, Only heard the message to please return the call, but it sounds like something is getting stirred up. I’ll report the progress when I call them today.

 

[TurboABA]

There is no "heating" element... the ECU makes changes to operating parameters to enable active regens.

Engine Control Module (ECM) J623 has several ways to control the increase of exhaust gas temperatures during active regeneration:

• The intake air supply is regulated by Throttle Valve Control Module J338.
• The exhaust gas return is deactivated to increase the combustion temperature and the oxygen content in the combustion chamber.
• Shortly after a delayed “late” main injection, the first post-injection is initiated to increase the combustion temperature.
• Late after the main injection an additional postinjection is initiated. This fuel does not combust in the cylinder, but instead vaporizes in the combustion chamber.
• The unburned hydrocarbons of this fuel vapor are oxidized in the oxidation catalyst. This ensures an increase in the exhaust gas temperature to approximately 1202°F (650°C) as it reaches the particulate filter.
• To calculate the injection quantity for the late post-injection, Engine Control Module (ECM) J623 uses the signal of Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) Sensor 3 G495 located before the particulate filter.
• The boost pressure is adjusted so that the torque during the regeneration operation does not change noticeably for the driver.

 

[oilhammer]

If you guys are talking about the throttle valve, then yes, it craps on the system because it's used in both EGR and Regen cycles to control airflow.

No, that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about the intake runner control.

 

[texasvw]

Is this the exact part for my vehicle?
Looks pretty cheap really.
And the estimate to replace is over $3600?
How can that be?

JETTADPF.png

• texasvw
• Dec 1, 2023