Does anyone know if my water pump broke??

stangfed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Location
ft lauderdale
TDI
2002 Golf Auto
Long story short..

Had over heating issues for a little while.. Realized I had a small crack in the bottom radiator hose.. I replaced the hose, but before I put the new one on, I ran the engine for a max of about (3 min) hoping the old Coolant would flush out.. It dribbled out for a while (engine was cold)

Now I have the new hose on, and using my scanner, my temp gauge just keeps climbing, I get to over 220 degrees and I shut the engine off..

I just now Tried it again, I let it get to about 170 degrees.. I felt the hose, and its ICE cold still..

I'm so lost :(
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
It is probably your thermostat. It' easy enough to get to. Remove it and see if it does not open in a pan of hot water. check it on a heat source with a thermometer. It should start opening around 165 degrees. Replace if it isn't opening.

Otherwise, if you have a OEM water pump and it's stock, you've passed your mark for a TB job. You could have a cracked impeller. It's 80k or 5 yrs for a timing belt change. Don't push your luck.
 

stangfed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Location
ft lauderdale
TDI
2002 Golf Auto
Yea, just replaced the T-stat.. Put back on and now its leaking.. GREAT!! Take it back off and realize the oring is all chewed up..

WHERE IN THE WORLD do you get one? Dealership has em, but I gotta pay 30 bucks because it comes with the T-stat.. I already bought one from a local place for 7 bucks..
 

stangfed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Location
ft lauderdale
TDI
2002 Golf Auto
Just put the old Tstat in boiling water.. It never opened so I guess thats a good sign.. Now I just need to know how to get the new one back on with NO oring
 

ymz

Top Post Dawg
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May 12, 2003
Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon

ryanhorlacher

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Location
South Puget Sound
TDI
99.5 Golf
I mistakenly got 2 o-rings when I changed t-stat out a couple weeks ago. I could mail it to you but that'd take time and I'm sure you can get it by itself from the dealer for ~$5.
 

stangfed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Location
ft lauderdale
TDI
2002 Golf Auto
I mistakenly got 2 o-rings when I changed t-stat out a couple weeks ago. I could mail it to you but that'd take time and I'm sure you can get it by itself from the dealer for ~$5.

THanks.. I'll let you know, obviously want to find it locally ...

Someone answer this please..

RTV or not? I was thinking of putting a little around the oring..

But should I just use the Oring only? Thanks
 

ymz

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 12, 2003
Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
NO RTV...

It's sometimes hard to get this contraption to not leak, I'm afraid... don't under-torque... don't over-torque... often the flange itself becomes deformed over time and it's recommended to just spend the $6 and buy a new one...

Good luck,

Yuri
 

stangfed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Location
ft lauderdale
TDI
2002 Golf Auto
F THIS!!!

Ok.. First and formost I want to make sure this is working or normal..

A while back I made a thread about how my heater was no longer working.. We tried all sorts of things, mostly the turn nob stuff.. Nothing worked..

I bought the 195 degree T-stat and this is what my obd2 scanner on my phone shows..

My car temp gauge shows normal, right at the 12 oclock position (190)



As you can see my Temp reading 206.. It fluctuates from 205-212, but always goes down.. Or holds at 210 (I drove all over including highway)

In anycase I pulled over at one point, opened the hood (for a reason I will explain in a second) and I felt the main radiator hose (the one that connects to the T-stat) and it was not filled up and just warm.. I thought for sure something wasn't working, but I was holding temp just fine. and then I checked my heater and sure enough, BLASTING HOT AGAIN..

So I don't know guys.. Is this normal? Temp normal?


Now comes the fun stuff!! From the start of this post I said "F THIS"

and the reason why.. Because I got a new O-ring, I put it on and sure enough LEAK!! At first it was a fast drip.. I took it all off again and did it again and not its a slow drip, but still dripping.. I tried just snugging both bolts and then really wrenching them down (as much as I thought I should for a plastic POS)

The damn thing is still leaking.. I am really thinking of using RTV, I mean the plastic housing looks perfect, I don't know what else to try..

Thanks
 

stangfed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Location
ft lauderdale
TDI
2002 Golf Auto
Also, to make sure I'm doing this right..


I have the housing in my hand.. I put the Oring on the HOUSING, then the T-stat, turn it and it locks in a little..


The oring does go inbetween correct? not on the outside of the T-stat... Thanks
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
If the heater is not working, I can almost guarantee you the water pump impeller has spun on it's shaft. Read Franko6's post above.
 

Dimitri16V

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Location
DE
TDI
01 Golf, 04 Golf
Also, to make sure I'm doing this right..


I have the housing in my hand.. I put the Oring on the HOUSING, then the T-stat, turn it and it locks in a little..


The oring does go inbetween correct? not on the outside of the T-stat... Thanks

check the block side for scale buildup where the O-ring seats and seals.
and fill up the system properly so you only trap a minimal amount of air
 

Dimitri16V

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Location
DE
TDI
01 Golf, 04 Golf
Yes, but now that I put a new T-stat in, my heart NOW works as I stated..
trapped air in the cooling system can result in loss of heat in the cabin.
from your scangauge pics , i can tell that the waterpump is OK
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
so... I guess I nailed that one... I use 85c thermostats... 185f.

The other thing to check on older cars that everything else seems to be working right... the radiator fins. Any car with 250k should have the radiator removed and the fins sprayed out with a pressure washer. That can cure an overheat.

I had a 91 with 350k, kept overheating. A radiator shop backflushed the radiator and said it was good. Still overheated. So I was going to replace the radiator. Pulled it out and I couldn't see daylight through any of the finning. Took the radiator to the car wash and must have washed out 2lbs of bugs, seeds, etc.

The proverbial 'last straw' was when I drove down a lane that had tall fescue grass in the middle of the lane. The seeds were a perfect plug for the fins. It started puking antifreeze. So, If nothing else works, don't forget to check how clean your radiator is on the outside.
 

UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
I'm sure RTV is not going to fix the leak. Get a new flange and O-ring, I replaced mine 2 weeks ago -- new parts are nice and usually work the first time. And you can verify the pump impeller is not loose with the thermostat out, just stick a finger in and try to turn it. It should not move.
 

stangfed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Location
ft lauderdale
TDI
2002 Golf Auto
I'm sure RTV is not going to fix the leak. Get a new flange and O-ring, I replaced mine 2 weeks ago -- new parts are nice and usually work the first time. And you can verify the pump impeller is not loose with the thermostat out, just stick a finger in and try to turn it. It should not move.

Good to know..

I'm going to the dealer tomorrow to buy a new Oring.. If they have the flange in stock and its CHEAP (like some said its 6 buck, but I have a feeling the dealer will charge me 600 bucks) I'll buy that too... I got the Oring from pepboys, it might be a little thinner than the original one, but the size was correct..
 

Jettascuba

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2009
Location
South Africa
TDI
2002 VW Jetta
Hi

Just some comments:

1) o-rings can be picked up at any bearing/seal sipplier. I use heaps of o-rings (scuba diving industry), and just buy kits that I replenish as needed, but that o-ring should cost you between $1 and $2. Hardness is not critical.

2) o-rings won't seal better if you squeesh the hell out of them by overtightening nuts, either they seal or they don't, Just be careful with the installation and clean all mating surfaces well.

3) the plastic of the thermostat housing, and other cooling flanges tends to warp over time, just replace it. You can reface them if you really need to, but these things cost like very little or nothing if you go non-OEM.
 

stangfed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Location
ft lauderdale
TDI
2002 Golf Auto
I ordered the flange.. But god must of been telling me otherwise.. because guess what.. OVERHEATED AGAIN.. got to 240 degrees..

Long story short, I took the flange off again to put the new Dealer Oring (seemed the same) and stuck my finger inside the engine, tilted it towards the left (passanger side) and sure enough, the fan blade of the pump, or whatever it is, is wobbly and loose..

That's the water pump right??

I said God had other plans, because I would of been stupid and tried to go a little longer, all while my Timing belt needs to be replaced anyway (100k miles auto)


Is this a good timing belt kit guys??

http://www.dieselgeek.com/servlet/Detail?no=349

any reason I SHOULD NOT order that? THANKS :(
 

stangfed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Location
ft lauderdale
TDI
2002 Golf Auto
Why can't I do my own timing belt change? I laugh, I've built my old mustang from the ground up.. Engine, pistons, the works..

I'm very mechanically inclined ...I've got two snap on tool chests, I've got almost every tool (except the specialtie ones)
I've got a garage to work in, and my dad to help (he's just as good as me)

But for some reason I get afraid thinking about a timing belt on this car..

Anyone wanna convince me to do it myself? Or just pay someone?
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
http://pics2.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf
I dunno... can you follow directions?

If you like, I've got the timing belt kit, the tools and when you get yourself into a bind, hints, tips and tricks are still free. My deluxe timing belt kit is $300, but there is nothing wrong with dieselgeeks.. He's got good stuff.

Now, after heating your car up several times, if your head gasket doesn't leak, count your blessings and get your timing belt done. It helps to have an engine support, but you can do the job with a wood block under the oil pan. You need a few specialty tools. I carry them too. Good luck.
 

TonyJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Location
Tucson, Az
TDI
'15 Jetta TDI SE / '06 Jetta TDI DSG Pkg0 / '96 Passat TDI
It sounds like you have the basic skills. The how-to Frank linked will get you going and point out the important details for you.

Do you have VCDS (was vag-com)? It'll be required for the IP timing.

Either DG's or Frank's kit would be top-notch. I would lean towards Frank...ONLY because he does wrench on these cars, and I have been able to contact him on the weekends, when I have had questions in the middle of a repair.

You will need the tools. You can buy them from Frank, or metlanerd.com

Tony
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
There is no voodoo regarding the timing belt. After my second water pump problem, I bought the tools and learned to do it myself. While I am capable of working on my own cars, I am no mechanic. The timing belt was easy using the writeups provided on this site, and I have complete confidence in doing them now.

If you have the tools and place, the only thing stopping you is your own mind.
 

Jerry_T

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Location
Charlotte, N.C.
TDI
2001 Golf Silver, 2006 Jetta White & Red, 2014 Passat
...I've got two snap on tool chests
I only have one so right away you're twice as smart as I am ! ! ! hahaha

If you know how to work on things, just do it - I have replaced three to date and there's nothing to it. Like Franko ask, can you follow instructions? And as Tony said - you will need the proper tools / fixtures to index the cam, crank and fuel pump prior to assembly. As well the VCDS to set the pump timing.

Sounds like everyday you take things apart and put them back together again - well this is no different.
 

stangfed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Location
ft lauderdale
TDI
2002 Golf Auto
I only have one so right away you're twice as smart as I am ! ! ! hahaha

If you know how to work on things, just do it - I have replaced three to date and there's nothing to it. Like Franko ask, can you follow instructions? And as Tony said - you will need the proper tools / fixtures to index the cam, crank and fuel pump prior to assembly. As well the VCDS to set the pump timing.

Sounds like everyday you take things apart and put them back together again - well this is no different.

HA, I just read Franks Instructions.. Seriously, Who the HELL Designed this car, lol.. I swear the germans made Tiger Tanks easier to work on than this damn thing..

There is no reason for it, being just a timing belt..

Frank GREAT write up tons of help..

I just looked on IDparts and they have a timing belt kit with the water pump (I need the water pump obviously) for 229.00 and another 70.00 with the tools... I'd like to buy from you, but what can you do? Or whats your cost with the tools?

Thanks
 

TDICADDGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
2012 BMW X5 35D
HA, I just read Franks Instructions.. Seriously, Who the HELL Designed this car, lol.. I swear the germans made Tiger Tanks easier to work on than this damn thing..

There is no reason for it, being just a timing belt..

Frank GREAT write up tons of help..

I just looked on IDparts and they have a timing belt kit with the water pump (I need the water pump obviously) for 229.00 and another 70.00 with the tools... I'd like to buy from you, but what can you do? Or whats your cost with the tools?

Thanks
They aren't Frank's instructions, but Frank DOES know his stuff.

There are very specific (and good) reasons why the procedure is the way it is. That "just a timing belt" attitude is what has led to hundreds (thousands?) of TDI engines getting serious damage because the mechanic cut corners.

The $229 kit at IDparts is for the BEW engine, which didn't come around until 2004. The ALH kit that you need for your 2002 is $310 at IDparts. The ALH tool set is $240 to buy. There are several members who rent out their tools, but if I were you I'd just go with Frank for the kit/tools, and most of all, his advice.

Oh and btw, the original timing belt interval for a 2002 AUTO is 60k miles or 5 years. You are way overdue on both accounts, consider yourself lucky that it hasn't failed before now. The new TB kit you install (if bought from Frank, IDparts, Dieselgeek, etc) will last for 100k miles thanks to an upgraded belt and large roller.
 
Last edited:

stangfed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Location
ft lauderdale
TDI
2002 Golf Auto
They aren't Frank's instructions, but Frank DOES know his stuff.

There are very specific (and good) reasons why the procedure is the way it is. That "just a timing belt" attitude is what has led to hundreds (thousands?) of TDI engines getting serious damage because the mechanic cut corners.

The $229 kit at IDparts is for the BEW engine, which didn't come around until 2004. The ALH kit that you need for your 2002 is $310 at IDparts.

Oh and btw, the original timing belt interval for a 2002 AUTO is 60k miles or 5 years. You are way overdue on both accounts, consider yourself lucky that it hasn't failed before now. The new TB kit you install (if bought from Frank, IDparts, Dieselgeek, etc) will last for 100k miles thanks to an upgraded belt and large roller.
Thank you.. Its actually 80k miles not 60k, but I will contact Frank
 

Jerry_T

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Location
Charlotte, N.C.
TDI
2001 Golf Silver, 2006 Jetta White & Red, 2014 Passat
Who the HELL Designed this car, lol..
Those who know better than anyone else - just ask them ! ! !

I've been working with then for 25 + years - Da Germans always know best - just ask them.

Drivbiwire did a very nice job with the write up, I us it as many hare have. Please pay close attention to ALL the details. Fact is you should read over the complete procedure a couple times before starting the job. Would be time very well spent, IMHO.
 

ymz

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 12, 2003
Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
They aren't Frank's instructions, but Frank DOES know his stuff.
Frank sure does know his stuff, but as TDICADDGUY said, the PDF is by Drivbiwire... (it does, however, have a tiny error at the end when discussing the direction of rotation when setting/checking basic timing with Vag-Com / VCDS...)

See also http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/a4/a4_how_to_index.htm as yet another wonderful resource

BTW: a couple of the other vendors around here also rent the lockdown tools... www.metalmanparts.com and www.boraparts.com

Yuri
 
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