Dodge Dakota Quad 4X4 ALH

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
My goal is to have a cheap quad cab truck with decent fuel mileage to haul the family. So after gathering parts and still scrounging for a few more its time to start a thread where I can nail down a few loose ends. My knowledge base is from the LSX and DSM world so TDI is a all new to me

I picked up a 2001 Dakota quad cab 5speed v8 I picked up a few months ago and I already fixed all the broken dodge stuff on it. EVguy is building an adapter to connect to the NV3500.

The donor is a 2001 bug auto that still drives after a poll smack to the right rear quarter it has around 160K miles on it.

I am leaning on doing a Mtdi swap as I picked up a 300TDI pump already but I could change my mind as I have been weighing the pros and cons for a while.

Next step is yanking the donor motor out. I post pics when I can figure out why I cant. :)

Ok so here is the quarter million mile Dakota.



And here is the donor TDI

 
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Reddok

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Location
Hamilton, Ontario
TDI
'00 Jetta TDI 01M, '02 Jeep Liberty Renegade ALH TDI swap
You will definitely enjoy the increased fuel economy. I would say retain the ALH electronics. Have you thought of what you are going to do for gauges? Easiest would be to graft in the ALH cluster. Much more difficult to make the Dodge cluster work as it is CAN as well and won't talk to the ALH ECU. I am running the Mopar ECU in mine to drive the cluster - Dakota digital converter to spoof the crank signal to it. At least it requires no mods to get the fuel gauge and speedo to work. The glow plug and check engine lights required splicing some flywires into the cluster.

I would also recommend to add sound deadening while you have it apart. Lots of it.

Also plan on bigger injectors and a tune. A stock ALH will push a 4000lb truck around ok but hills are a bit of a struggle. With injectors and a tune, I can climb hills in 6th without downshifting (keep an eye on EGTs though)
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
i'm with Reddok... keep the electronics... the e pump has better timing control that you will not have with the M setup... on top of that you can use your smartphone or tablet to monitor engine parameters via apps and wifi obd2 port adapters ... i'm running a tdi M rover pump on my westy now and can't wait to convert it to electronic ... also been running my tacoma for over 90k miles and six years with tdi E and zero e related failures ... just a few glow plugs replaced
 

vtpsd

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Location
Vermont
TDI
03 jsw TDI, audi 90 AHU swap
Another vote for electronics. They are easy to integrate and make the engine so much more daily driver friendly IMO.
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
You will definitely enjoy the increased fuel economy. I would say retain the ALH electronics. Have you thought of what you are going to do for gauges? Easiest would be to graft in the ALH cluster. Much more difficult to make the Dodge cluster work as it is CAN as well and won't talk to the ALH ECU. I am running the Mopar ECU in mine to drive the cluster - Dakota digital converter to spoof the crank signal to it. At least it requires no mods to get the fuel gauge and speedo to work. The glow plug and check engine lights required splicing some flywires into the cluster.

I would also recommend to add sound deadening while you have it apart. Lots of it.

Also plan on bigger injectors and a tune. A stock ALH will push a 4000lb truck around ok but hills are a bit of a struggle. With injectors and a tune, I can climb hills in 6th without downshifting (keep an eye on EGTs though)
For gauges I would leave the Dodge cluster and snag the cank sensor much like you have done I would imagine. I was unaware that they CAN bused the cluster as I just fixed the fuel sender and the speedo is a normal hall effect in the rear ring gear. cruise is a vac can with a cable so thats easy. I had planned on a waste gated garret 2052 with normal intercooler and injectors to match. With a gov mod 300tdi pump from what I have seen that would put me in the 180+hp range and just as much torque as the v8 in it now.

i'm with Reddok... keep the electronics... the e pump has better timing control that you will not have with the M setup... on top of that you can use your smartphone or tablet to monitor engine parameters via apps and wifi obd2 port adapters ... i'm running a tdi M rover pump on my westy now and can't wait to convert it to electronic ... also been running my tacoma for over 90k miles and six years with tdi E and zero e related failures ... just a few glow plugs replaced
Your making me rethink going Mtdi. My main concern is I hate having to rely on somebody else to flash my ECU. How much does the timing really move around? can Etdi be that much more efficient? I mean after you delet the EGR ,Maff ect... Whats the advantage of the Etdi save for the VGV turbo? I like to hear your thoughts as you have experienced both.

Another vote for electronics. They are easy to integrate and make the engine so much more daily driver friendly IMO.
So 3 votes off the bat for Etdi. Is there a write up on striping down the stock ecu harness for bare bones operation? I have a whole running car so as long as I can get this done on the cheap and delete all the crap ton of wiring I might do the Etdi.
 

Reddok

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Location
Hamilton, Ontario
TDI
'00 Jetta TDI 01M, '02 Jeep Liberty Renegade ALH TDI swap
Not only the CAN issue, but the dodge ECU will not start sending ignition events until it sees a valid cam sensor pulse in the appropriate crank pulse. I ended up grafting the cam wheel and sensor from the 3.7 on to the camshaft of the TDI to get it to work. On the easier side of things, the electronic cruise works perfectly. I just tapped the appropriate wire from the VW ECU into the rear ring gear hall-effect sensor and I get a working speed signal to the VW ECU. Had to use a push-button for 'set speed' though as the steering wheel buttons for cruise in the Jeep are of a resistor ladder design.
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
Reddok I just read your build thread. very nice work. Did I read that right that not only does the dodge ecu need a cam signal pulse but also a crank sensor pulse? I have been reading the dakota FSM and I was under the impression I only needed a cam pulse for 3 seconds to make the ecu come alive.
 
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Reddok

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Location
Hamilton, Ontario
TDI
'00 Jetta TDI 01M, '02 Jeep Liberty Renegade ALH TDI swap
It doesn't require a cam signal for long. Less than a second. Originally I had a pushbutton connected to the cam signal line and would just randomly tap it 4-5 times and the tach would then start working and keep working until the engine was shut off.
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
Ok that makes more sense. The way they wrote it in the FSM sounded like if it didnt see the signal within 3 seconds of starting it wouldn't work.


So after much deliberation Im 99% sure I am going to go Etdi. Just wish there was a tuning interface like HPtuners or ECMlink.
 

xjjeeper

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Location
Chilliwack BC
TDI
99.5 golf, soon to be Tdi Xj
Good luck with the build! I'm at the same place you are now with my xj swap. Just stripping the harness out of my donor car then removing the alh. You already have the 11mm injection pump so that is definitely a bonus for power making! :D
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
Well made some progress today. Fired it up with lines run to a jug. Took about 5 tries to get the air out of the line. Something was blocked up in the stock feed line. Got it up in the air and started ripping it apart and draining fluids.


Anyone know if I can just unbolt the axle flanges from the trans to pull it all out or will I need to yank the axles?
 

xjjeeper

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Location
Chilliwack BC
TDI
99.5 golf, soon to be Tdi Xj
I'm pretty sure you can just un bolt the cv s from the transmission and pull the engine and tranny straight out the front. At least that's how I'm going to attempt it;)
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
Well its out. Tomorrow I hope to get the harness, gas pedal, brake switches and anything else I might need removed.


Im still amazed at these clogged intakes from the EGR.
 

Halfbrit

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Location
OR
TDI
03 jetta-sold, 2000 jetta tdi
Me too!

I'll be starting my 2002 quad cab dakota Automatic ALH swap this fall. I just bought my third ALH today. First Jetta was too nice to dismantle so my son and I have been driving it to long distance bids. Then I bought just an ALH engine to rebuild. Now I found an ALH Jetta basket case with an ALH rebuild kit in the trunk. So I'm flush with TDIs. I just need the fall/winter to slow down so I'll have time. I will definitely be following your build.
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
Got most all the harness out. My bently manual still isnt here yet as I bought a used one on amazon cause I couldn't find any wire manual in PDF online. But I think i have most all I need out of the car.


While I wait on that to get here will clean the engine up and get it on a stand.
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
Got a little bit of the obvious wires cut while I wait for the wire manual to get here.


Also got the adapter in!


Wire harness and prepping the motor are next since im not ready to pull the Dakota from daily driver duty yet.
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
So for some reason I cannot find the throttle pedal inputs in the Bentley manual? Can somebody help me out here I dont know why I dont see it? I looked all in section 50/x which should be most all the engine/ecu inputs.
According to the ALH wiring sticky at the top of this forum it should run through the T10 blue plug but some of my wires dont correspond to the pinouts. I just need to find the throttle pedal pinout in the Bentley manual.


Throttle pedal wires


T10 Blue plug
 

1.9ZOOK

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Location
Dunsmuir,Ca.
TDI
ALH Samurai
This might help,at least you will know which wires are the throttle.

Better give you the color code legend
 
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jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
just be very careful when wiring the pedal ... when it goes through the blue connector many of the wires do NOT correspond and some actually go to a completely different color wire on the mating blue connector although a matching color exists in the other side... you complicated your job by cutting wires rather than taking time to feed the harness through ... you really need the bentley now to help you determine the changeover in that connector
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
Guys I have the Bentley manual what I am saying is I cannot find the pedal in any of the wire schematics. I am looking at schematics 51/0 through 51/11. I dont see the pedal input anywhere.
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
all the pedal wires go directly to the ecm, so if you focus on components just going to the ecm you will find it ... also there is an index at the beginning of the schematics that tell you where to find your model year engine type and component
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
Zook thank you thats exactly what I was looking for!


Now here is why I was so confused. See below in the bently the diagram has solid wire colors coming out of the TPS which is not even close to the plug I have. however those colors somewhat match the plug coming off the fuel pump.


So I have all my bare minimum wiring figured out I just need to find more spare time to work on this thing. Next thing I have to figure out is deciding on tuning as I will rough wire it up and run it on the stand before I stab it in the truck to build my mounts.
 

1.9ZOOK

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Location
Dunsmuir,Ca.
TDI
ALH Samurai
On the Mitchell diagram it shows #47 being Green/Violet and is not used
the same with #40 which is Blue/Green,not used.
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
Thanks Zook. With that confirmed I just need to wire up a couple relays to power the harness.

Man this project is taking a while. A few years ago I would have been done in a couple weeks. Haha not anymore. Between work and Family Ill be good to get it done by the end of the year.

Beside rear main and crank seals are there any others I should definitely change out?
 

Nozzleman

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2014
Location
About 15 miles from Venus
TDI
20003 Jetta (wifes) 2003 Jetta (donor)
Another vote for the electronics. You ought to be able to get the info you need off of the CAN. Hansenwerks just built me one for my Ranger using the NV3500.
 
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