Do you really want a 08 tdi

[wrenchman30]

being in the industry and working on the 07 compliant diesel engine and the dpf (diesel particulate filter) with the constant requirement to run the aftertreatment system. when the soot builds up the engine has a injector that sits behind the turbo and puts fuel into the exhaust to raise the temps to 1000 degrees. which in turn cooks the soot and turns it into ash. when the ash builds up you have to have the dpf cleaned. which you must be very careful about the ash we have been told turns to concrete like substance when mixed with water so any dust in you lungs will be hardened. just recently going thru the egr failure due to sooting at the shaft. which i will clean and hopefully be able to swap out when the new one soots. we are seeing egr failures on the cummins engines as low as 50000 miles. most are covered to 300000 miles. they are 750.00 plus labor and at times we cant keep them in stock we put on so many.

 

[boraTDI04]

yes i do want the 08. its just a little more maintenance for the diy'r. and hopefully we will be running more cleaner and efficient than this hybrid craze which has a pretty big bandwagon now that this new battery is supposed to be eco-friendly or something.

 

[n1das]

No more gassers for me! Bring on Clean Diesel!

YES! I DO want an 08 or later TDI or new clean diesel vehicle made by another manufacturer. I'm watching to see what VW/Audi, Honda, BMW, and others are working on. After owning 2 TDIs and logging more than 300k miles between them, there is absolutely NO WAY I'll will ever own another gasser vehicle again if I can help it. That also includes gasser hybrids. No more gassers! All future vehicle purchases of mine shall be DIESEL vehicles.

Bring on the diesels!

 

[darkscout]

being in the industry and working on the 07 compliant diesel engine and the dpf (diesel particulate filter) with the constant requirement to run the aftertreatment system. when the soot builds up the engine has a injector that sits behind the turbo and puts fuel into the exhaust to raise the temps to 1000 degrees. which in turn cooks the soot and turns it into ash. when the ash builds up you have to have the dpf cleaned. which you must be very careful about the ash we have been told turns to concrete like substance when mixed with water so any dust in you lungs will be hardened. just recently going thru the egr failure due to sooting at the shaft. which i will clean and hopefully be able to swap out when the new one soots. we are seeing egr failures on the cummins engines as low as 50000 miles. most are covered to 300000 miles. they are 750.00 plus labor and at times we cant keep them in stock we put on so many.

Wrenchman: What part of 'the industry' are you in? I'd be very interested in your feedback on all the 2007 products you've seen (either here or via PM).

The VWs will not be using a '5th' injector (or '7th'), they'll be doing a late injection event since they are common rail. Similar to the Hino trucks.

 

[dieseldorf]

There's no way the EPA is going to approve any sort of exhaust after-treatment device that requires periodic servicing.

 

[darkscout]

There's no way the EPA is going to approve any sort of exhaust after-treatment device that requires periodic servicing.

It's called a DPF. They did say that it has to last a minimum of 150,000(? while I google) miles before cleaning. But they've approved it and it's how it works.

 

[oilhammer]

Ford said 120k for the 2007+ PSD for the DPF service life. I just went to a class on this a couple weeks ago. However you are not going to see a "replace DPF" in the PM schedule I bet. Or if you do it will be the "recommended but not required" doublespeak that the CARB was responsible for on many cars.

The new CR Jetta's exhaust system is pretty complex. Lots of components, lots of sensors. Looks kinda like what we have seen on gassers for years now; multiple Lambda sensors, dual pre-cats, main cats, SAI garbage that we assumed was gone for good that showed up again, etc.

I've got a 2003 E250 van here (3/4 ton Ford van) with the 5.4L that needs a $1300 pre-cat/Y-pipe assembly, and both the $180 pre-cat oxygen sensors are no doubt going to be siezed in the pipe and will require replacement.... gets crazy expensive real quick to have "clean air".

 

[darkscout]

Ok. Googled it.

For the 'big' on highway engines 13-15L Cat/Cummins/Detroits, the DPF must last 150,000 mi before cleaning. Before that it's on the manufacturer's head to do it. After that unless the DPF is broken, you can 'blow it out' with air, use a solvent OR do a reman/core.

As of Mid America Truck Show in March 2007:
Cat/Cummins are using the air thingy. Detroit says that you can't clean it out with air and you have to return it so they can chemically clean it, but they were also bragging about 300,000 miles with 'no problem' before cleaning.

 

[megavites]

check out this article
http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-07-03.php

 

[GoFaster]

Big question, where is the ash coming from?? Carbon and hydrocarbons burn completely to gaseous products. I'm guessing the "ash" is mostly coming from additives in engine oil that's getting out. On these newer engines you are supposed to be using engine oil formulations that are designed to work with the new emission controls and you are certainly NOT supposed to put in any additives that might contribute to the "ash". I would imagine that additives containing moly, or anything else that can't be burned completely, will be a big no-no.

I, along with a large portion of the trucking industry from what I gather, will be staying away from these new emission controlled engines until the dust settles.

 

[kcfoxie]

I am SO glad I have an 06.

 

[GoFaster]

someone else posted an interesting link while I was typing. Looks like ZDDP, a traditional antiwear additive, is a no-no. The lubricant companies must be having fits dealing with all this. For sure, the days of one-size-fits-all engine oils are done.

 

[dieseldorf]

It's called a DPF. They did say that it has to last a minimum of 150,000(? while I google) miles before cleaning. But they've approved it and it's how it works.

ds, a serviceable life (requiring replacement) of 150k miles and periodic servicing are not one in the same.

 

[darkscout]

Big question, where is the ash coming from?? Carbon and hydrocarbons burn completely to gaseous products. I'm guessing the "ash" is mostly coming from additives in engine oil that's getting out.

Dead on. That's why they recommend CJ which is a low ash formulation.

I, along with a large portion of the trucking industry from what I gather, will be staying away from these new emission controlled engines until the dust settles.

People said the same thing in 2002 and 2004. Now they're holding on to their 06s as they panic for 07. When 2010 rolls around the 2007s are going to be the ones everyone holds on to. I'm sure some die hards were saying the same thing when the TDIs came out "Computer controlled Diesel. I'll want none of that.."

ds, a serviceable life (requiring replacement) of 150k miles and periodic servicing are not one in the same.

Depending on what company you are working with, they're the same thing.
Cat/Cummins is doing the cleaning. Detroit is doing a core replacement. EPA says the DPF MUST last 150k miles before it should be touched. Meaning it has to last 150,000 miles before it needs to be cleaned OR replaced. If it occurs before then it is the manufactures responsibility.

 

[lovemybug]

I am SO glad I have an 06.

I'm so glad I've got an '02

 

[darkscout]

I'm so glad I've got an '02

I'm so glad I have a 98.

 

[oilhammer]

I'm so glad I have a 98.

I'm so glad I have a '91.

Oh, wait, I also have a '97 and an '04..... DOH!!!

 

[kcfoxie]

My dad would be glad he has an 87 if the thing stopped leaking oil ..... [but at 350,000 an oil leak and clutch should be expected]

 

[n1das]

I, along with a large portion of the trucking industry from what I gather, will be staying away from these new emission controlled engines until the dust settles.

...or ash settles.

I'm glad I've got my 02 VE Golf and 05 PD Jetta Wagen.

I sort of panicked back in 05 and grabbed an 05 PD JWagen while I could. Good thing though because the Wagens have remained in high demand since there's no 06 Wagen in the USA. However, mine is definitely NOT for sale, no matter what happens to its market value.

 

[Btwiceborn]

I'm so glad I have a '91.

I'm so Glad i have an '81. And an '01, '02, and '03...

 

[KentSzabo]

I thought I did until I read this article on how emissions are to be handled on the new diesels see: http://www.mxcom.net/hearst/motor/drivetrains/002/072007_10.pdf

I will keep my 02 Golf with vagcom controlled EGR and elephant hose CCV and 47 MPG. I will also keep my 03 Chevy Silverado 3500 Duramax with NO EGR and 21 MPG. There is no way that I can see any improved mileage with the increaed EGR requirements and the DPF.

 

[oilhammer]

I thought I did until I read this article on how emissions are to be handled on the new diesels see: http://www.mxcom.net/hearst/motor/drivetrains/002/072007_10.pdf

I will keep my 02 Golf with vagcom controlled EGR and elephant hose CCV and 47 MPG. I will also keep my 03 Chevy Silverado 3500 Duramax with NO EGR and 21 MPG. There is no way that I can see any improved mileage with the increaed EGR requirements and the DPF.

We service a few Sprinters for a few companies, and they have all decided to keep the pre-2007 models in service "indefinitely" because the later ones took a substantial hit in fuel economy. Apperently FedEx withdrew some orders for the newer ones as well, maybe cut the number in half or something. Funny because FedEx was very instrumental in getting the Sprinter sold here in the first place largely due to their success outside the US.

Again, it seems the main interest the car companies have with new technology is hell-bent on making more power, not increasing fuel economy. And one would think the latter would be an easier path to follow to also reduce emissions.

 

[darkscout]

And one would think the latter would be an easier path to follow to also reduce emissions.

Economy and NOx are proportional to each other. The engines actually burn more fuel to reduce NOx.
You have lots of N2, O2 floating around in a tiny confined hot space.
Everyone leaves their dates and starts hooking up with Diesel who is new to the party. O is definitely cuter than N so diesel starts hooking up with O. Before you know it there are little CO2 and H2O babies running around.
If there's any Os left they get desperate by the end of the party and start hooking up in with the Ns. Couples of NO, threesomes of NO2 and even foursomes of NO3.
The US Government (EPA) has determined that these acts are unholy. They put a law into effect banning this natural expression. They said that given the size of the party, you can't have as many NOx hookups (even if they go on to lead perfectly otherwise normal lives).
The only way car manufactures can guarantee no more NOx hookups is to open the parties to more Diesels so that all the O is taken by the end of the night.
Additionally some companies decided to just cut their losses and invite some happily joined NOx back into the next party. They had such a wonderful experience that when everyone starts disassociating when things get hot and heavy, that they decide to just stick together, leaving less room for N2 into the party.
-

 

[oilhammer]

Yes, I am well aware of how NOx is formed.

 

[GoFaster]

darkscout, LOL!

All of the pickup-truck diesels *and* the Sprinter have gone to larger displacement in conjunction with the new emission regulations; that's probably a good part of the loss in economy. The Sprinter now has the V6 diesel, same as M-B E320CDI, instead of the prevoius 5-banger. I have a funny feeling that they're doing this, and cramming the boost pressure way up (Ford/Navistar 6.4 is a series-turbo arrangement), to get more dilution during combustion to get the peak temperature down under any given load condition.

 

[BioFuelsDude]

YES! I DO want an 08 or later TDI or new clean diesel vehicle made by another manufacturer. I'm watching to see what VW/Audi, Honda, BMW, and others are working on. After owning 2 TDIs and logging more than 300k miles between them, there is absolutely NO WAY I'll will ever own another gasser vehicle again if I can help it. That also includes gasser hybrids. No more gassers! All future vehicle purchases of mine shall be DIESEL vehicles.

Bring on the diesels!

n1das your right! Once you go diesel you dont go back!

 

[wrenchman30]

the dual turbos being used are for low end boost and high end boost so there isnt any lag at takeoff. and the cat engines are a real pain in the azz. i work in a kenworth volvo shop so we see all makes except detroit/mercedes benz engines. paccar boycotted them so no more detroit since 02. we are having units with as little as 30,000 miles and having to do a manual regeneration on the dpf as soot levels or any type of codes can keep the drivers from enabling a regen. the soot from engine is collected in the dpf, the soot is burned and turned to ash, the cleaning machine is 30,000. we have a ford with a cummins with 1000 miles that had a hole in tank and water contaminated fuel and the dpf was clogged and of course no warranty.

 

[GoFaster]

Are these operators using ULSD? Are they using oil of the correct specifications?

 

[darkscout]

We are having units with as little as 30,000 miles and having to do a manual regeneration on the dpf as soot levels or any type of codes can keep the drivers from enabling a regen

So you're having to do a regen in as 'little' as 30,000 miles? They should regen MUCH more frequently than that.

What sort duty cycles are these engines running? City, Highway, Stop-and-Go? Is the driver educated on how all of his 2007 switches work? If they run with the Regen Disabled this does happen.

the soot from engine is collected in the dpf, the soot is burned and turned to ash, the cleaning machine is 30,000.

The cleaning machine is $30,000? Or you need to clean at 30,000 miles? I guess I need units.

 

[wrenchman30]

we are having to perform a manual regen because any type of code or a high soot level will not allow the driver to perform the regen process. the dpf cleaning station is 30,000 dollars. per our fuel man only 15 percent of fuel is not ulsd that is all the refinerys can produce so almost all fuel is ulsd. i just hope for consumers sake that cars and trucks are better at the dpf regen than the trucks have been so far. so many companys preordered 06 trucks there are not many out there.