DO NOT use B100 in ANY COMMON RAIL ENGINE

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
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Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
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2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Folks need to knock this off.

Its not a joke, Biodiesel especially the types sold in the US (SME - Soy Methyl Ester) are NOT compatible with Common rail and Pump Duse engines.

Why?

Oxidation stability is the biggest factor. Normal diesel fuel being a "Distillate" is refined so that all fractions that re-condense during fractioning are temperature stable, but when exposed to high temperatures under pressure will not break-down and leave deposits.

Biodiesel de-composes into acids, sodium, soaps and other caustic residues that begin to etch the internals of the injectors and this cannot be repaired.

The residues clog the EDM precision passages and eventually the triggering of the injector and its precise control are ruined.

B6-B20 should be used ONLY if thats your only option.

If straight ULSD is your only option your fuel system will be fine provided you use a fuel additive to control water thats in suspension in the fuel. Again, due to the super-heating of the fuel water can condense and form free water, and this can be catastrophic to your entire fuel system. Additives we have found to me the most effective are White Bottle Power Service (Please google search, this will answer where and how much to add or just read the bottle).

Mercedes put out a great brochure on the failures of Biodiesel in modern common rail engines.

Also PLEASE NOTE U.S. BIODIESEL IS DIFFERENT THAN EUROPEAN Biodiesel. European fuels are "RME" with much higher oxidation stability thresholds than US fuels, and even those are limited to 4-6% by volume.

See attached PDF for more information, and PLEASE stop destroying your engine by running B100 in your PD or CR TDI...

https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf
 
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BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
No, only higher concentrations. VW officially accepts 5% biodiesel concentration, but unofficially accepts up to 20% concentration because some states in America have higher concentrations in their fuel. The caveat is that those people need to check their oil at 7500 intervals to assure that biodiesel hasn't gotten into it. Most oil companies now have something like B03. Using this much gives you the added libricity which makes your engine run smoother/quieter. If you're using fuel from a large oil company it is legitimate and should cause you no problems, despite what some people here may say.
 
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RebelTDI

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Nov 1, 2009
Location
Boston, MA
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2016 Audi Q5 TDI, 2016 BMW 535d Xdrive
I always liked the idea of running B2 in my CRs for the added lubricity. None of the pumps say "may contain up to 5% biodiesel" anymore. I wish there was a way to know who still adds BD to their diesel. I had been splash blending with B100 from a reputable supplier, but after I found a layer of precipitate in the bottom, it scared me off.
 

BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
Rebel, if you're in MA then all diesel sold is B04 (maybe B05 by now). It's not marked because it's 05 or under. See private note.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
Five Years On...

First:
DON'T USE BIO IN A TDI. It's OK for older IDI engines.
Later:
DON'T USE BIO IN A PD TDI. It's OK in IDI and VE TDI engines.
Now:
DON'T USE BIO IN A CR....

Pete and I disagree on bio suitability, and we apparently always will. He has every right to his opinion and his refusal to work on systems that he feels have been compromised / damaged by biodiesel use.
CR diesels? I haven't had the where-with-all to afford one.......yet.
I'll undoubtedly run bio if and when that happens.
 

BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
I hadn't heard that. Can you provide a link?
 

mrseadog

Active member
Joined
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Location
St. Louis, MO
TDI
2002 Jetta
I found the Mercedes brochure to illustrate a number of worst case scenarios. I do not use biodiesel but if I did I would:
1) Consider using stabilizer additives to retard oxidative degradation. Utah Biodiesel Supply has such a product.
2) Shorten oil change intervals to something reasonable. I don't know what Mercedes recommends but looking at their B20 Oil Dilution graph it looks like the oil change interval is around 15,000 miles. Way too long in my opinion.
3) Free water is bad no matter what fuel you use. Use biocides if there is a problem.
4) If running B100 perhaps consider a 2 tank system so that starting/stopping would be on regular diesel so that biodiesel would not sit in engine components. This would also allow the engine to be running on reg diesel during a regen cycle to clean the DPF effectively taking care of that issue.
 

hskrdu

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Oct 17, 2003
Location
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2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
I hadn't heard that. Can you provide a link?
My statement was more of a question. Someone told me a few years back that Mass D2 was now a bio blend, so I looked it up and couldn't find anything other than the initial proposal. Here's a google search:

"It is the finding of DOER that implementing a minimum biofuel content requirement in diesel transportation fuel and heating fuel is not feasible on the basis of unreasonable cost, and will instead move forward with a voluntary program to encourage the use of biofuel ls that meet the standards of the Clean Energy Biofuel Act."

http://www.mass.gov/eea/docs/doer/renewables/biofuels-mandate-announcement-jun302010.pdf

"DOER may delay the implementation of the biodiesel blend mandate if DOER determines that it is not feasible to meet the mandate due to lack of supply, lack of blending facilities, or unreasonable cost. As of June 2010, DOER suspended the formal requirement on grounds of unreasonable cost.
(Reference Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 94, Section 295G1/2"

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/all?state=MA

I looked up the Mass law and couldn't find the section referenced by AFDC.
 

atc98002

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Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Location
Auburn WA
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2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium (sold back), 2009 Jetta (sold back), 80 Rabbit diesel (long gone)
Drivbiwire is referring specifically to the CR engines in this post. He is absolutely correct that B100 will destroy the injectors well before they should need attention, and that the emissions systems on a CR engine will not function correctly. Simply removing the emissions controls (which as you recall is illegal) does not resolve the issue with the injectors. More than one person has already experimented with high levels of BioDiesel in the CR engines, and anything higher than B20 causes all sorts of issues.

Fuels such as Propel HDR is chemically identical to D2, and as such works in a CR just fine. But 1st generation BD has no place in a CR engine.
 

740GLE

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NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Rebel, if you're in MA then all diesel sold is B04 (maybe B05 by now). It's not marked because it's 05 or under. See private note.

I hadn't heard that. Can you provide a link?

I know for a fact that all Irving station caries zero blend of Bio.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
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Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
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idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
3) Free water is bad no matter what fuel you use. Use biocides if there is a problem.
A biocide will kill the biologic growth but will do absolutely nothing about the water. And it doesn't have to be 'free water' implying the fuel is saturated with water. Biodiesel is hygroscopic and will attract moisture, even out of the air. The biodiesel will be at a very risky water content ratio long before there's saturation, 'free water' and stratification.
Biodiesel storage: Keep it fresh, keep it full, keep it sealed.
 

mrseadog

Active member
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Location
St. Louis, MO
TDI
2002 Jetta
Of course biocides will do nothing about free water. My posting had to do with the "issues" brought up in the Mercedes brochure regarding the use of biodiesel, ie, fouling of fuel filters due to biologic sludge.
 

jerryfreak

Veteran Member
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Feb 16, 2004
Location
Nor Cal
TDI
02 Jetta GLS sedan @250K, 150K on B99, 99 Jetta sedan 250k, 20k on B99. 2015 tdi sedan, 35k
what a load of BS.

all that mercedes brochure says is that out of spec fuel will damage your engine

if your fuel has free water....guess what? it is out of spec
if your fuel has high acid value... it is out of spec
if your fuel has high sodium... it is out of spec
if your fuel has less than 3 hr oxidative stability... it is out of spec
if your fuel is decomposed to varnish... it is because you let it get out of spec
and the biggest giveaway of all...."Fuel that contains any percentage of “home brewed” biodiesel does not meet Mercedes-Benz fuel standards and must never be used in Mercedes-Benz vehicles."

how would they know it doesnt meet the standards? its actually pretty easy to homebrew astm-spec fuel. all you need is some diligence and 200 ppm of oxidative stability additive

yes engine oil dilution is a real (and easily monitored/mitgated) problem, but thats not really news
 
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jasonTDI

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Apr 26, 2001
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Oregon, WI
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12' RAM 2500 QC,LB. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
I service a LOT of TDI's. The only cars coming in with injector issues are the Illinois cars with B20 use. Wisconsin does not mandate the use. Only one diesel seller (petro stations) now are B5 all the time. I've replace 6 set of Passat and 11 sets of Jetta injectors due to Bio killing them. All were between 80-150K miles. Never had to do a set run on strait #2.
 

piotrsko

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Aug 11, 2013
Location
Reno Nv
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2013 Golf, 2000 F-250 (7.3)
how the heck do you run straight D2 in Wisconsin in the winter? Last time I was there I ended up using a whole quart of white additive just to get the 250 running.
 
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