Do I need to replace the starter?

digdug

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Location
vineland NJ
TDI
2013 jetta tdi
At first I thought it was just the cold weather and looked into getting a frostheater but now I dont know - - First thing in the morning when I go to start the car after it's been sitting all night outside the car will crank/turnover then its like the starter will "seize" and make like a scraping noise and then stop. No turning over sound just like a scrape if I dont cycle the glow plugs 10x (yes ten times). If I cycle the glow plugs 10x then it will start up as normal.

is it starter or glow plugs or something else? - i checked for codes but nothing showing. thanks
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
Sounds like something is worn out on the starter motor. Cycling the gp's probably just makes it easier for the weak starter to fire the engine. Pull starter and see if anything looks amiss. Might just be time for a new one.
 

5SP TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2010
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI, GLS 5 speed. 2014 JSW TDI, DSG.
Time for a starter... I just replaced mine at 154K miles and it is a NIGHT and DAY difference on how easily the engine starts!

Jeff
 

TurbineWhine

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Location
Asheville, NC
TDI
Jetta, 2003, Platinum Grey
At first I thought it was just the cold weather and looked into getting a frostheater but now I dont know - - First thing in the morning when I go to start the car after it's been sitting all night outside the car will crank/turnover then its like the starter will "seize" and make like a scraping noise and then stop. No turning over sound just like a scrape if I dont cycle the glow plugs 10x (yes ten times). If I cycle the glow plugs 10x then it will start up as normal.

is it starter or glow plugs or something else? - i checked for codes but nothing showing. thanks
I doubt it has anything to do with the starter, glowplug cycling or cold weather. My guess is its the starter ring. 01M transmissions have the starter ring welded to the torque converter. I have seen the teeth on the starter ring get worn and chipped off to the point they would do the symptoms you are describing. The bad thing is you have to buy a new torque converter to fix this problem because the starter ring is permanetely welded to the torque coverter. To replace the torque converter requires removing the transmission.

Not a cheap or pretty fix to your problems if I am right. I suggest stopping with the starting attempts next time it does this. Go to the engine and remove the top timing belt cover and bar the engine forward with the cam gear center bolt or a cam gear barring tool about a quarter of a cam gear revolution. This will provide new starter ring teeth to the starter and I bet it will start normally, without all the glowplug cycling thing.

Also, there might be an inspection cover that you can remove on the transmission to be able to inspect the condition of the starter ring on the torque converter.

TW
 

digdug

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Location
vineland NJ
TDI
2013 jetta tdi
I doubt it has anything to do with the starter, glowplug cycling or cold weather. My guess is its the starter ring. 01M transmissions have the starter ring welded to the torque converter. I have seen the teeth on the starter ring get worn and chipped off to the point they would do the symptoms you are describing. The bad thing is you have to buy a new torque converter to fix this problem because the starter ring is permanetely welded to the torque coverter. To replace the torque converter requires removing the transmission.


TW
oh wow. -- the transmission was replaced a few months ago. I dont know if they put a new torque converter on though?
thanks
 

hevster1

Vendor
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Columbia NJ
TDI
98 NB
It might be the starter or the ring. I would have to see it to be sure. It isn't all that hard to pull the starter and with 185k it is nearing the end of its life. It might be worth your while to get one anyway and when you pull it out rotate the crank and inspect the ring.

RPM Auto in Stanhope has Bosch re-man starters for a great price. They will ship UPS to you but you have to send the core back. 973-448-9440. Tell them Mike from M&M sent you.
 

digdug

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Location
vineland NJ
TDI
2013 jetta tdi
It might be the starter or the ring. I would have to see it to be sure. It isn't all that hard to pull the starter and with 185k it is nearing the end of its life. It might be worth your while to get one anyway and when you pull it out rotate the crank and inspect the ring.

RPM Auto in Stanhope has Bosch re-man starters for a great price. They will ship UPS to you but you have to send the core back. 973-448-9440. Tell them Mike from M&M sent you.

Thanks - I will give them a call and check their prices. I did check the parts stores like advance auto. They had a generic (Worldwide brand) for ~ $115. Not sure how good those are though.
 

TurbineWhine

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Location
Asheville, NC
TDI
Jetta, 2003, Platinum Grey
Thanks - I will give them a call and check their prices. I did check the parts stores like advance auto. They had a generic (Worldwide brand) for ~ $115. Not sure how good those are though.
We have sworn off Autozone and Advance, ect. starters. They do have a lifetime warranty but usually fail within a year. My recommendation is to go with a new Veleo starter from IDParts.com. Yes its $270 but it is new and should last you 200K or so.

TW
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
So, just shy of 300k miles, would you say my starter is ready to bite the dust?
 

Dodoma

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
TDI
2002 Jetta White
since your problem is narrowed to either starter or ring on the torque converter. it is obvious first to replace the starter. See if you can get a good used one. If replacing starter does not solve the problem, ask the shop that replaced transmission whether torque converter was also replaced. Since they had worked on the car, it would be prudent to give that the chance to replace the torque converter in case it was not previously replaced.
 

TurbineWhine

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Location
Asheville, NC
TDI
Jetta, 2003, Platinum Grey
So, just shy of 300k miles, would you say my starter is ready to bite the dust?

I would have to ask, is it a manual or an automatic? The manuals tend to die earlier due to clutch dust. They begin to bind up and don't release when you let off the starter, resulting in a loud squeal after the engine is running. Mine own car is doing this now and I am just ignoring it for the time being. I have removed the starter, cleaned and lubed them and gotten another 50K or so out of them before they totally died.

The automatic starters can go longer, but if you have 300K I would say you have a real winner. Don't worry about replacing it as preventive maintenance, it will let you know when it is dying with the sounds mentioned above. If you do your own work it might be worth servicing that starter.:)

TW
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
High mileage starters

I would have to ask, is it a manual or an automatic? The manuals tend to die earlier due to clutch dust. They begin to bind up and don't release when you let off the starter, resulting in a loud squeal after the engine is running. Mine own car is doing this now and I am just ignoring it for the time being. I have removed the starter, cleaned and lubed them and gotten another 50K or so out of them before they totally died.

The automatic starters can go longer, but if you have 300K I would say you have a real winner. Don't worry about replacing it as preventive maintenance, it will let you know when it is dying with the sounds mentioned above. If you do your own work it might be worth servicing that starter.:)

TW
Yip! Mine is a manual.

I have had it off at least one time for cleaning and lubing. Right now, it seems strong and no squells. I do have a spare that I picked up from a dude that was parting his wreck!

Right now, I am less than 800 miles from the 300k mile mark. So, the debate is what to do..........drive on, or do a bunch of preemptive maintenance.........starter, cam/lifters, oil pump, turbo, etc. Or, just keep on driving. I'm leaning toward driving on!
 

TurbineWhine

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Location
Asheville, NC
TDI
Jetta, 2003, Platinum Grey
Yip! Mine is a manual.

I have had it off at least one time for cleaning and lubing. Right now, it seems strong and no squells. I do have a spare that I picked up from a dude that was parting his wreck!

Right now, I am less than 800 miles from the 300k mile mark. So, the debate is what to do..........drive on, or do a bunch of preemptive maintenance.........starter, cam/lifters, oil pump, turbo, etc. Or, just keep on driving. I'm leaning toward driving on!
I would simply make sure to thoroughly inspect the cam and lifters at the next TB service and you could also inspect the turbo at that time. You could also inspect it now if really inquisitive. Basically, once the turbo gets to a point that you can tell its in trouble, its a steep slope to death. You can however tell if it is in good serviceable health with a proper inspection. Maybe put a manual oil pressure gauge on the engine temporarily to check the actual presssure. These ALH engines are really strong and can go to huge mileage if serviced appropriately. You obviously have a well maintained engine that was built on a very good day.:D

TW
 
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