Discussion Thread: Comprehensive/Technical Approach to Burning WVO

T'sTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Location
Maryland
TDI
2001 Jetta
I am in the process of posting up my guide that I have been working on for little over a months time. Its 28 pages in word so give me some time to post everything completely. :rolleyes:

Since a lot of my time has gone into making this, I would like to keep all discussion comments/ridicule out of the thread to maintain its credibility and value to everyone else.

This guide was wrote for those that don't know anything regarding WVO. I hope this is a first stop for credible information.

I'll ask in both threads for the moderators to lock the thread and delete any comments out of the guide that are not mine once I am complete with the posting.

Enjoy... it was a lot of work.;)
 

UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
That's more comprehensive than anything out there in the interwebs. Nice job.
 

dalchri

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Location
Muncy, PA
TDI
99 Beetle
I'm interested in knowing the path that you took to arrive at these ideas...

What sort of adaptations had you performed on your other vehicles before you got the TDI? EGR delete? Injection line heaters? Restricted driving technique? Fuel temp mod? etc...

What sort of adaptations did you come up with only once you had to deal with a TDI? (I'm assuming that you got your TDI last after all your other vehicles)

How many of these adaptations were you anticipating and how many did you arrive at because you started to see a problem part way into your own conversion and use?

Now that you have adapted to the TDI platform, have you transferred any of these ideas to your other vehicles?

I guess I've been sort of under the impression that the IDIs, Mercedes, modern pickup trucks, all are pretty much plug and play with a two tank conversion kit and that it's only the TDI that needs this level of special care.

Thanks for sharing! It is refreshing to see a discussion of theory backed by evidence that results in constructive advice.
 

T'sTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Location
Maryland
TDI
2001 Jetta
dalchri said:
I'm interested in knowing the path that you took to arrive at these ideas...

What sort of adaptations had you performed on your other vehicles before you got the TDI? EGR delete? Injection line heaters? Restricted driving technique? Fuel temp mod? etc...

What sort of adaptations did you come up with only once you had to deal with a TDI? (I'm assuming that you got your TDI last after all your other vehicles)

How many of these adaptations were you anticipating and how many did you arrive at because you started to see a problem part way into your own conversion and use?

Now that you have adapted to the TDI platform, have you transferred any of these ideas to your other vehicles?

I guess I've been sort of under the impression that the IDIs, Mercedes, modern pickup trucks, all are pretty much plug and play with a two tank conversion kit and that it's only the TDI that needs this level of special care.

Thanks for sharing! It is refreshing to see a discussion of theory backed by evidence that results in constructive advice.
I waited for my dad to convert his car first before I delved into converting my car. When I realized how well a diesel engine runs on WVO (his Powerstroke) I asked myself why the TDI engine itself has so little success.

Obviously, there are a lot of factors out there that contribute to failures in a TDI. I think one mainly being that the TDI engine is really the only small diesel engine out there supplied with a nicer vehicle. I mean who wants to drive around an 80's Mercedes? Granted they are nice cars and will last forever, but people put more into comfort and looks than whats under the hood. Many of these people went in blind to the idea. They had no reason not too... None of this information is mentioned unless the user him/herself looked for it.

I grew up around cars my entire life so I have a bit more knowledge then the average person. What I described in my guide makes logical sense. Its hard to pin point a failure to a certain degree because the variables involved; however, I think its completely plausible to make logically, educated inferences on why so and so occurred and how to prevent it from occurring. This comes from a lot of studying and reading across the internet (probably 60 hours worth total). I gathered other peoples opinions and made my own, which regarding WVO, I recommend to everyone. I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say; however, if your passionate about what your trying to do, find other opinions related to the topic and form your own. For that matter, bring it to my attention because I would love to hear other peoples opinions regarding the topic. That's what I did... find one opinion, find twenty more, and then form your own...

The adaptions were explained extensively in order to show importance. The modifications themselves are relatively simple yet they prevent so much on the grander scale. Really the only thing different between our 00 Powerstroke (7.3 diesel) and my 01 TDI is the fact that fuel temperature is mapped with engine timing.

Long story short, when my father converted his car, he also had an EGT gauge installed and we both realized quickly that EGTs are relatively the same between both fuels. The first switchover on my TDI resulted in this not being the case. Since we are talking exhaust gas temperatures, this has to do with combustion, not the added heat from the fuel. The only culprit would be engine timing. Since the TDI engine (VE rotary) requires VAG COM to check timing and the graph itself has fuel temperature on the X axis of the graph, it was pretty easy to figure out what was going on.

Lucky for me, you stumble around great information if you look. The fuel cooler mod (so elegantly called in the Power enhancement section) was the key I needed to move further with the conversion (fuel resistor mod). If this did not work, I was going to discuss a WVO related tune with my chip tuner.... So I had other options.

Really the only special thing is the fuel resistor that I feel is mandatory... Remember my guide was written to promote the most long term success as possible. The guide was written to go "above the call of duty." Whether or not a person does what I did is up to them; however, it is food for thought...;)

I'm not your average WVO converter... I'm pretty anal and cover all factors to achieve success... At this point, there is no question in my mind what I have done thus far will yield great long term results... It makes perfect sense in theory and I put it to the test each day... Needless to say, I prove that theory each and everyday as well...:)
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
*Loud clapping*

Bravo!!! Knowledge is power. Great write up, Tony!









Bruce, if you don't have any meaningful critiques or viewpoints to offer and continue with the trolling...out comes that ban hammer again. STOP IT.
 

vwcampin

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Location
Omaha
TDI
2002 GLS TDI Auto
T's,
Nicely done, this should be a benefit to many who consider WVO. I think you did a great job. One note to add (and it is small) is that for the Vegtherm, a "thermostat" is available that will trun off the Vegtherm when it senses around 168F WVO temps. I agree about being cautious with electric heating, but this is an option which helps.

Again well done.:)
 

T'sTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Location
Maryland
TDI
2001 Jetta
vwcampin said:
T's,
Nicely done, this should be a benefit to many who consider WVO. I think you did a great job. One note to add (and it is small) is that for the Vegtherm, a "thermostat" is available that will trun off the Vegtherm when it senses around 168F WVO temps. I agree about being cautious with electric heating, but this is an option which helps.

Again well done.:)
This is a good point. Its been so long since I've been on Plantdrives website, I totally forgot about the thermostat. If I was to put a vegtherm on my car, I would have to have it on a thermostat.
 

vwcampin

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Location
Omaha
TDI
2002 GLS TDI Auto
After digesting your write up for a day or so, I have a couple other things to mention.

Temp Gauge- I think it is worth mentioning that a temp gauge is a very good idea, in my opinion a must have since it lets you know what the WVO temps are, which is very important.

Links to pictures- While a pain in the butt, it would be nice to upload the pics in your links to TDI Clubs picture server and embed them in the posts. Nothing worse than looking through old posts for information and having the pics not work anymore:mad:

I'm just nitpicking the great job you did:D
 

T'sTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Location
Maryland
TDI
2001 Jetta
vwcampin said:
After digesting your write up for a day or so, I have a couple other things to mention.

Temp Gauge- I think it is worth mentioning that a temp gauge is a very good idea, in my opinion a must have since it lets you know what the WVO temps are, which is very important.

Links to pictures- While a pain in the butt, it would be nice to upload the pics in your links to TDI Clubs picture server and embed them in the posts. Nothing worse than looking through old posts for information and having the pics not work anymore:mad:

I'm just nitpicking the great job you did:D
I would have loved doing so except BK took my editing and picture posting privileges away from me... I can't register to put any pictures on the server... You can thank him...;)

By the way... where are all the other people that usually post? Less than 10 comments over the course of 4 days... I guess its only easy to comment/discuss on a fail thread, not an educated approach :rolleyes:
 

philngrayce

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 Jetta, '06 Jetta, Both Gone '13 Leaf, Gone Liberty CRD, Subaru Forrester and MB300SD
Excellent work T; thanks for putting on the time.

My only comment would be that you are much more cautious than I have found necessary, especially on the highway only driving. Of course, in alternative fuels caution is a very good thing.
 

eyyopomps

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Location
Daytona Beach, FL
TDI
1998 MK3 Jetta TDI 204K 2010 MK6 Golf TDI 140K 2000 Jetta TDI sold at 325K
Is there stages of prefiltering before using a centrifuge if you take that route? And what are some thoughts on just going with a diesel to wvo mixed ratio straight into the car just the way it is? I live in FL doesnt get very cold here...
 

philngrayce

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 Jetta, '06 Jetta, Both Gone '13 Leaf, Gone Liberty CRD, Subaru Forrester and MB300SD
Centrifuges are great, but the more you prefilter the less you will have to clean out from the centrifuge. Letting the oil settle for a few days or even a week would be a good preliminary step.

Running WVO in a proper two tank heated system is pretty well proven to give good to extraordinary longevity in most cases. Mixing oil and diesel in the main tank is not nearly as proven; you are taking a much bigger risk. While it is warm in Florida, and your fuel will not congeal, it will be much thicker than the diesel the engine was designed for. Warming the oil to 160 degrees brings it to about what the diesel would be at room temperature.

In addition, with a two tank system, you can burn WVO most of the time. With a mix, you are always burning a percentage of diesel. It should be cheaper in the long run to put in the two tank system. This will depend somewhat on your driving patterns and mileage.
 

eyyopomps

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Location
Daytona Beach, FL
TDI
1998 MK3 Jetta TDI 204K 2010 MK6 Golf TDI 140K 2000 Jetta TDI sold at 325K
So then maybe get by with putting a heating core heated by the radiator fluid?
 

philngrayce

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 Jetta, '06 Jetta, Both Gone '13 Leaf, Gone Liberty CRD, Subaru Forrester and MB300SD
That could work, but you don't want to be heating pure diesel.
 
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