Diesels (Still) Equal Savings

frugality

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Spring Lake, Michigan
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GTI Guy said:
I dunno, I wish VW would build the Hybrid/Diesel Golf and bring it over here. That would be my move to a diesel. With my '07 GTI 2.0t I can get 40 HWY at 60 MPH. For now that will have to do. The current diesel just doesn't have enough get up and go for me. Nice cruiser though.
Buh-bye then.

And don't let the door hit you on the backside on the way out.:rolleyes:
 

tdibigd

Veteran Member
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Dallas, TX
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2013 Passat TDI SE w/DSG, black on black
PlaneCrazy said:
Now, give me an old 75 hp 1.9 IDI diesel with mechanical injection pump, virtually no emission controls, no electronics. Those are bulletproof (except for a crank pulley issue, if I recall correctly).
Yeah, or even the 1.6L from the Rabbit diesel days. Slower than hell (particularly with A/C on!!!) but a solid little engine....no electronic wizardry needed to make it work. I wouldn't swap it for my 1.9TDI but I imagine there will be a few Rabbits hopping about long after the current TDIs have gone to the crusher.
 

tdibigd

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Frugality, the guy was just making a point about his current ride's efficiency. Sounds pretty solid to me. With regard to TDIs, not everyone is as obsessed as a Jim Jones follower.
 

PlaneCrazy

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tdibigd, same here! Right now I am getting better mileage out of my 2.0T Passat wagon than my B5.5 TDI; mainly due to my wife's driving mix in the TDI mind you, but the 2.0T is quite capable of good mileage (for a gasser) if needed.
 

frugality

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tdibigd said:
Frugality, the guy was just making a point about his current ride's efficiency. Sounds pretty solid to me. With regard to TDIs, not everyone is as obsessed as a Jim Jones follower.
That's fine, but non-TDI'ers can take their complaints to the VWVortex rather than pi$$-n-moan here. GTI Guy says the current TDI's don't have enough power for his tastes, yet he's complaining that VW doesn't make the 70mpg Golf TDI hybrid, which would be sure to have even LESS sporty characteristics because it'd be set up for the best mileage. He's complaining out of both sides of his mouth.
 

tdibigd

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PlaneCrazy said:
tdibigd, same here! Right now I am getting better mileage out of my 2.0T Passat wagon than my B5.5 TDI; mainly due to my wife's driving mix in the TDI mind you, but the 2.0T is quite capable of good mileage (for a gasser) if needed.
Yep, diesels don't have a corner on the mileage market no matter what some wish to believe. Don't get me wrong, I like diesels...but there's a lot of folks around that throw rationality aside when it comes to their passion for oilburners. They can be great, but they're not as unique from a mileage/economy/longevity perspective as they used to be...
 

tdibigd

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frugality said:
That's fine, but non-TDI'ers can take their complaints to the VWVortex rather than pi$$-n-moan here. GTI Guy says the current TDI's don't have enough power for his tastes, yet he's complaining that VW doesn't make the 70mpg Golf TDI hybrid, which would be sure to have even LESS sporty characteristics because it'd be set up for the best mileage. He's complaining out of both sides of his mouth.
Fair enough, I just didn't get a pi$$-n-moan attitude out of his post. I took it as an innocuous statement of his preference given a comparison of his GTI to the currently (or soon to be) available TDI offerings...which sounded like a pretty reasonable (and informed) call to me. ;)
 

bikegeek

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I think if we get away from the, bigger is better mentality, the numbers would improve....since my purchase in May 2000 VW has continued to up-size almost all of the engines across the spectrum....My TDI gets down the road fine....for me it is a good blend......I will be looking at the Tiguan diesel closely however......more utility....
 

PlaneCrazy

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tdibigd said:
Yep, diesels don't have a corner on the mileage market no matter what some wish to believe. Don't get me wrong, I like diesels...but there's a lot of folks around that throw rationality aside when it comes to their passion for oilburners. They can be great, but they're not as unique from a mileage/economy/longevity perspective as they used to be...
The new 1.4 TSI in the Golf in Europe is rated over there for 5.2 L/100 km highway. The same as a Jetta TDI over here. That's 45.5 mpg.

It makes 122 hp, and has 148 lb-ft from 1500-4000 rpm.

That's pretty impressive actually, for a gasser; moreover the Golf is far from a micro-mini. I believe the gas Smart doesn't do much better. It doesn't do as well as a TDI in the city however, and over there the 105 hp TDI is rated at 4.5 L/100 km (53 mpg).

I am baffled as to why we don't see those kinds of engine here. Obviously things haven't sunk in yet on this side of the Atlantic.

I've been looking at some of the Ford Europe offerings as well, the Focus with the 1.6 TDCI makes 65 mpg imperial average... that's an average fuel economy of 54 mpg!!!

One wonders if Ford would be in such deep doo-doo if you could have that thing over here. It would sell like hotcakes these days.
 

VelvetFoot

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I got 51.6 mpg actual on my last fillup @ about 720 miles.
In my MINI Cooper.
No match for my old Beetle, but still...

I still drive for economy, so your mileage may vary. :)
 

tdibigd

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The Mini is a fun little car...we have one in the family. Talk about handling! Just make sure you're comfortable with having that type of suspension 100% of the time - some don't mind it at all but it is like riding on a big skateboard.
 

PlaneCrazy

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VelvetFoot said:
It's really not that bad.
I have the non-sporty Cooper with the 15" tires.
That's what I would go for, the non-S model. Very efficient and très cool.

Maybe even a Clubman. Saw one the other day. Looks much better live than in pictures.
 

tdibigd

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Yes, I don't mind the ride that much but I wouldn't have one as a primary vehicle. However, that's the tradeoff for the fantastic handling. You can't have everything. I mentioned the ride above simply to set the expectation that it is not for everyone. My wife thinks it's a POS rattlebox...and for her and many others with her idea of transportation, it definitely is.
 

philh

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Cars like the Mini are certainly appealing for their economy, as well as trendy, but are they as comfortable to ride in as a Jetta? That is what has always lured me to the TDI's is that they are "real" cars and not stripped down econo-shells.
 

VelvetFoot

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You're calling my car a 'stripped down econo-shell'? :)
We I think the VW's are bloated unwieldly family cruisers. :)
Except of course the Beetle, which, oh yeah, they're discontinuing.

Bear in mind the MINIs are really BMW's and they share some things. Like how you can order exactly what you want. They build it to your specifications in England and then ship it over by ship. So, like, I ordered the bi-xenons, DSC, and cruise w/multifunction steering wheel....that's it. No sunroof/luxury package, climate control, keyless entry, etc, required. I found that refreshing-I especially like the bi-xenons (not a bad deal for 500 bucks). There are packages, but you can get everything ala carte.

I will say also the seats are very comfortable and I've gone on several 400 mile one day trips with no backache, and no rolled-up towel as a lumbar roll which I had to do with the Beetle. I still like the 'leatherette' seats, like I had in the VW and our old 325ci.

My wife thinks it's smoother riding than our old Beetle, but then again, it had the Bilstein HDs. :)
 

impetus19

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nj
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I would hardly call mini's stripped down.

The only thing i didnt like about the car was the back seat leg room.. otherwise i would have one.
 

VelvetFoot

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Yeah the rear leg room is not too good, but do-able for short distances.
Generally though, a wash, I would say with the Beetle.
Though both are hatchbacks and the Beetle is bigger, the MINI's back is squarer than the Beetle's so you can put in a pretty good amount of stuff in there. We put 2 sets of golf clubs and 2 pull carts and some bags for a weekend trip and could've put more. Of course, the back seats are folded down. :)
 

philh

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Sorry - my comment about stripped down econo shell was misplaced. I didn't mean it to refer to the Mini, so much as cars like the Yaris, Fit, Smart, etc. My previous daily driver was a 2004 Passat TDI sedan, which offered "big car" comfort and returned 40MPG on the highway. I wouldn't pretend to think that the Passat could out manuever a Mini, nor do I think it's fair to expect a Mini to offer the comfort and convenience of a mid-sized sedan.

I do have to admit that I like where they are going with the Clubman, and wish that it had the club door on both sides.
 

VelvetFoot

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We looked at some of those cars you mention, including the Versa + the XA when that was still around.
What struck us was that they had a 'stripper' aura, which for me means some or all of: rear drum brakes, crappy radio, manual windows and doorlocks, etc.
For me, though, it had to be a hatchback of some sort.
 

jvance

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VelvetFoot said:
What struck us was that they had a 'stripper' aura
So there was a pole in the middle of the car and a bunch of seedy looking guys stuffing dollar bills under the wiper blades?
 

philh

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jvance said:
So there was a pole in the middle of the car and a bunch of seedy looking guys stuffing dollar bills under the wiper blades?
Good one! :D
 

philh

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I actually don't object to the "street looks" of the Honda Fit. From what I can see, it seems roomy and economical.

Now what would slay me would be a diesel powered Element.
 

PlaneCrazy

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I have driven both the Fit and Yaris... rentals. The Fit is a brilliant design except for the fuel economy which should be much better in such a small car. But in terms of packaging, usability, flexibility of the cargo area, and best of all, driving and handling, it blows the Yaris out of the water. The Yaris is a tinny piece of junk.

The Fit on the other hand feels like a much larger car behind the wheel. It handles great. The ergonomics are way better than the Yaris, and even with an automatic, the 109 hp engine does not feel overtaxed.

I certainly would consider a Fit as a second family vehicle, but I won't even step into a Toyota dealer to talk Yaris.

Oh and don't get me going on the center pod dash of the Yaris. I'll believe that instruments should be placed outside the driver's line of site when I see my first aircraft designed that way... that's a beef I have with the Mini as well actually, but I guess they are trying to emulate the original design.
 

VelvetFoot

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The tach is in front of the driver and also has a driver info led, like the BMW, that you cycle through. So, you can see stuff like avg mpg, instant mpg, etc. You can also display mph, which is larger than usual, so you can use it instead of the speedometer if you wanted to.
 

newbury

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I came here to vent about diesel prices in the news and find a Minicooper forum!!
Anyways -
Just on NBC there was a segement about July 4th fuel prices and they interviwed a newly married "kid" who was saying he may have to get rid of his truck - because it's diesel and diesel is $5/gallon.

This just fuels American stupidity. My '88 Ford Maxivan, w/ high top conversion got 19mpg on highway trips before conversion and 15mpg after. Comparable gassers are lucky to get 10mpg. When I have to drive the Ford I'm darn glad that I get 50% better fuel mileage even if the fuel costs 25% more.

Now commenting on the Cooper/Fit comparison.
I bought a Fit two years ago, primarily for my daughter.
I've only had it to myself for one short (about 500 miles) moderately loaded down road trip.
VERY roomy, extremely good handling, unlike my other vehicles it's VERY responsive. This might have lowered my mpg due to the fun. But I got 40mpg overall. And the main reason we got that wes VW didn't do diesels.
 
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