DieselGreen Fuels tests B100 in 2009 Jetta TDI

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Wavemantoo

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Houston, TX
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2006 Jetta TDI -- Wheat Beige, Package 2
I'm a little late in responding to this post -- I'll blame it on Hurricane Ike and the fact that we had evacuated -- but you say you added 16.1 gallons after getting it down to "5 miles remaining". Perhaps this has been pointed out in another post, but the Jetta only hold 14.5 gallons. You may be paying too much for your biodiesel as a result !

Just a thought,
Waveman

Neurot said:
I took delivery of my 2009 Jetta TDI (base model, manual transmission) last week. I bought it with the express purpose of using B100 exclusively. The dealer (Charles Maund VW in Austin, TX) immediately said I would void my warranty. After some verbal back and forth, I wound up emailing them some information about the Magnuson Voss Act, including a letter from the Oregon Auto Dealers Association regarding the use of biodiesel (found here). I don't know if that warmed them up to my plan, or they just wanted to sell another Jetta, but I wound up getting my ordered vehicle just like I wanted it, in the color I wanted, and 2 months ahead of what was quoted initially!

After quite a few thoughtful replies on my plans, today was the day to get started.
I drove 378 miles on the initial tank of diesel (poor average of 28.8MPG), and ran it until it had 5 miles remaining on the tank (according to the display). Then I put in 16.1 gallons of pure biodiesel, made from used cooking oil, produced to conform to the ASTM specification D6751. I have a certificate of analysis from the producer, New Energy Fuels in Houston, did my own quality tests (clear and bright, methanol, water, and phlip), and have sold 5000 gallons from the same batch, from the same tank, even some just before my fillup. So I have every reason to believe that my results will be indicative of an average B100 user in the new TDI platform. There may be some variability based on the feedstock and climate it is used in, but should not be much. Also, October 1st is the day that the new ASTM specifications take effect, which should increase the quality even further (new "cold soak" test, oxidative stability, and other refinements).
After filling up to *completely* full, I ran the engine for awhile, rev'ed it a bit (but not exceeding the 3500 rpm level due to the break-in period). It ran normally, then I drove it the 8 miles home. Not the most comprehensive test, but enough to breathe a little easier. There was no immediate loss in power or fuel economy noticeable, no check engine light, etc.
I will keep this thread open for periodic updates. PLEASE follow these simple rules before replying to this thread:
Do not post about how I'm going to void the warranty, ruin the engine, destroy the DPF, or anything else stupid and inflammatory. Please do post any specific concerns you have, things to look out for, tests you recommend (and vendors to send samples to), etc. If you have specific negative things to say, like "I heard that you may have to change your oil more often", cite references. If you read somewhere that it will do something bad, go research it and come back.
If you don't like biodiesel, don't think it has a place in modern cars, or have any other "feelings" about biofuels in general, take it somewhere else. There are enough forums even on TDIclub to debate the merits of growing crops for fuel or net energy balance.
If someone does start in with nonsense, don't take the bait!
Full Disclosure - I run a business selling biodiesel. I WANT this to work. I am not exactly a neutral scientist recording data and coming to a hypothesis. However, if something doesn't go the way I hope it will, this information could be extremely valuable for the future of biodiesel. I will report my results, and hope that others will find this experiment useful.
Current test plan:
Drive it like an old lady for the remainder of the break-in period (probably 2 tanks).
At 1000 miles, take an oil sample and send it off to Blackstone (unless there's a better place - I could use some help on this one).
After 1500 miles, take it to the dealer for a courtesy check (their suggestion)
At each 1000 mile increment, repeat oil sample.
Depending on results, modify or abandon experiment, or continue as planned.
Hope to get a few suggestions and hints, but not spawn a giant free-for-all conversation. Nobody likes threads that drag out for dozens of pages, so please keep it brief.
Thanks for all the participation in my previous post and I'm looking forward to more discussion!
 

Neurot

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Location
Austin, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI
I've gotten 16 or so gallons into my 2004 Golf many times by holding down the pressure relief thing and filling up the neck.

It's possible our pump isn't calibrated right, but it's been dead on for many fillups. Ask around and see what others are getting in their tanks; this doesn't seem abnormal to me.
 

Wavemantoo

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Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI -- Wheat Beige, Package 2
Well, it wouldn't let me edit my last post, but I wanted to give you the "good news" here. Your calculated mileage is also wrong as a result -- it's comes out low. Your initial tankful would be 31 mpg -- and that's if you could get the full 14.5 gallons in it. Since it would more likely have been something like 13.5, your mileage would have been over 33 mpg (or 36 mpg with a 12.5 gallon fill-up).

If you're still using the same source of Bio-D, you may want to check out their metering !

Waveman

Wavemantoo said:
I'm a little late in responding to this post -- I'll blame it on Hurricane Ike and the fact that we had evacuated -- but you say you added 16.1 gallons after getting it down to "5 miles remaining". Perhaps this has been pointed out in another post, but the Jetta only hold 14.5 gallons. You may be paying too much for your biodiesel as a result !

Just a thought,
Waveman
 

Wavemantoo

Well-known member
Joined
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Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI -- Wheat Beige, Package 2
I have heard this -- though never tried it, obviously.

There's still good news though -- it explains the low mpg's on your first tank -- assuming they only put in 14.5 (and I'm pretty sure they didn't give you more than necessary to get the guage to "full" !).

Neurot said:
I've gotten 16 or so gallons into my 2004 Golf many times by holding down the pressure relief thing and filling up the neck.

It's possible our pump isn't calibrated right, but it's been dead on for many fillups. Ask around and see what others are getting in their tanks; this doesn't seem abnormal to me.
 

Windjammer

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Cinti, OH
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MK4 & Mk5
Neurot said:
I've gotten 16 or so gallons into my 2004 Golf many times by holding down the pressure relief thing and filling up the neck.
MK5's don't vent. I've run my car down to 0 miles left a couple times & filled with just under 15 gallons both times.
 

Fencemaker

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2006 Jetta TDI 5sp; 2009 JSW TDI 6sp
Orginally posted by Wavemantoo
Perhaps this has been pointed out in another post, but the Jetta only hold 14.5 gallons.
I don't know if the 2009 A5 fuel tank capacity is any different than the 2006 A5 capacity, but assuming they did not redesign the fuel tank, I'm absolutely positive you can get substantially more than 14.5 gallons in there. Just yesterday I put over 15.4 gallons in my 2006 and I've had fill ups as high as 15.6 gallons (although, admittedly, I was so low I was white-knuckling it into the station). I know the owner's manual says otherwise:( , but I assure you the manual has an incorrect fuel tank capacity listed.
 

Wavemantoo

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Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI -- Wheat Beige, Package 2
As I've continued to search for info. regarding clean-diesels and biodiesel, I found your article at BiodieselSmarter.com. Your findings are quite disappointing. I've been seriously considering trading my Liberty CRD (about 24 mpg) for a more efficient Jetta TDI Sportwagon, but now ... ?!

Anyway, I appreciate you "taking one for the team" and testing one out for us.

We'll be in Austin in a couple of weeks and, again thanks to you, filling up with B100 (in the 2006 TDI) at Ecowise.

Thanks,
Waveman


Wavemantoo said:
I have heard this -- though never tried it, obviously.

There's still good news though -- it explains the low mpg's on your first tank -- assuming they only put in 14.5 (and I'm pretty sure they didn't give you more than necessary to get the guage to "full" !).
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
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Location
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2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
quantum_tdi said:
sorry to hear you're giving up Jason. I'm picking up an '03 wagon this week for some of the same reasons. I know the ALH engines do great on B100 and just don't want to be a tester for new tech just now.

To a certain extent, many car companies make the same claim. Unless they can assure quality of biodiesel in the marketplace, they'll continue to shy away from even considering the use of it. And why shouldn't they? Look at how highly controlled diesel fuel is compared to biodiesel. I see many people in the biodiesel world clamoring for acceptance, but I don't see those same people hammering on the biodiesel world to get its act together and force higher quality standards (BQ-9000 and/or another higher quality standard with sustainability requirements). Are the requirements strict and possibly too much for some shoestring budget companies? Maybe. Are the car makers going to accept biodiesel otherwise? Not on your life.

Will any of that make late post-injection work? No. But will it make manufacturers take another look at biodiesel and alternative regen techniques? Perhaps.

I'll be interested to talk with jsrmonster to see if he has any insight as to what chip tuning could do in minimizing the late injection. There is some possibility for aftermarket changes that would not be painfully expensive to implement...

As I said at the summit, I am still interested in collecting warranty stories in a central repository somewhere. Maybe the infopop forum is a better place for it.

I am concerned about misuse regarding use of our i-Spec or other equipment used for confirming biodiesel blend in denying warranty claims.

I will personally get on the phone and educate mechanics that don't understand biodiesel, the use of it in modern diesels, or the things that are still covered under warranty regardless of biodiesel use.

Kyle Capizzi
Operations Manager
Paradigm Sensors
www.paradigmsensors.com
I just rebuilt your injectors and You may want to STRONGLY reconsider your position on B100 causing issues!

Your injectors were on the verge of causing a catastrophic failure of your motor. There were massive amounts of varnish and gum and to top it off soilidified deposits approx 2-3mm in diameter! If any of these had broken free you would have had a jammed nozzle and a rapid meltdown of the respective piston and cylinder.

Your injectors looked nearly as bad as some of the WVO injectors I have seen.

The cause is simple, the fuels simply cannot handle the operating temperatures in the components located in or near the combustion chamber causing oxidation break down of your fuel and the resulting formation of gums, varnishes and deposits.

I would strongly urge you to reduce your fuel ratios to no more than B20 going forward!

DB
 
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oldpoopie

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2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
Pete I'd love see some photos of the buildup you describe. I always warn folks about bio use, but seeing is believing.
 

guapo42

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Location
Pittsboro, NC
TDI
1997 Passat Sedan
Just for clarification, who's injectors did you rebuild? What make model? How long was it running on biodiesel, and was the biodiesel astm certified?

This is a very interesting finding, I'd love to know more.

Thanks,

Drivbiwire said:
I just rebuilt your injectors and You may want to STRONGLY reconsider your position on B100 causing issues!

Your injectors were on the verge of causing a catastrophic failure of your motor. There were massive amounts of varnish and gum and to top it off soilidified deposits approx 2-3mm in diameter! If any of these had broken free you would have had a jammed nozzle and a rapid meltdown of the respective piston and cylinder.

Your injectors looked nearly as bad as some of the WVO injectors I have seen.

The cause is simple, the fuels simply cannot handle the operating temperatures in the components located in or near the combustion chamber causing oxidation break down of your fuel and the resulting formation of gums, varnishes and deposits.

I would strongly urge you to reduce your fuel ratios to no more than B20 going forward!

DB
 

Bio-Beetle

Veteran Member
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Location
Maui
Drivbiwire said:
The cause is simple, the fuels simply cannot handle the operating temperatures in the components located in or near the combustion chamber causing oxidation break down of your fuel and the resulting formation of gums, varnishes and deposits.

DB
This is simply not true. I don't know the circumstances of this particular car, but making blanket alarmist, and false, statements regarding B100 use don't serve any purpose, other than to be a Chicken Little for the sake of it. When an injector fails when running on D2/ULSD we don't hear the same warnings, do we?

Our B100 biodiesel rental car company has well over 1,000,000 miles on our fleet and we have never had an injector problem. Let me repeat that - we have never had an injector replaced/rebuilt in any of our cars for any reason. Over a million miles of demonstrated performance using only B100 in 1997-2006 VW's and a 2005 Jeep Liberty speaks for itself.

Shaun
 

kcfoxie

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Raleigh, NC
TDI
'12 6-spd JSW
DWB is the sole reason I ran 64k miles on b100. To prove that a BRM does not explode. Since the engine is out on a hoist to repair the block due to an unforseen broken motor mount dog ear, I may pull the injectors and photograph them.

By all of his accounts my car SHOULD be toast....

Chipped, B100 since 2500-3000 miles till 64,000 miles, various feed stocks at that, and I even used non approved VW oil (and my cam at 90k looks better than any of the failed or about to fail cams at the same mileage)....

So we'll compare his photos to my photos, and see if there is any truth.

I applaud your statements Shaun.
 

darkscout

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Location
Michigan
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2003 Golf
Bio-Beetle said:
Over a million miles of demonstrated performance using only B100 in 1997-2006 VW's and a 2005 Jeep Liberty speaks for itself.
Is this a million miles on a million cars?

Fleet size matters.
 

Bio-Beetle

Veteran Member
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Location
Maui
darkscout said:
Is this a million miles on a million cars?

Fleet size matters.
No need to be sarcastic when it's obvious that we don't have a million cars.

You're right that fleet size matters, but we are a very small company that started with one car in 2003, and now have 18 biodiesel rentals (yeah, I need to change the signature). We have had a grand total of 32 cars in our 6+ years, and accumulated a total of about 1,050,000 miles (with 10 cars currently on the road I can't give an exact on mileage), which makes for an average of over 32,000 miles per car. The most B100 miles we put on any car was 78,000 on a 2000 Golf. The most B100 miles we have on a car currently in our fleet is 45,000 on a Jeep Liberty, and 45,000 on a 2003 Jetta and a 2004 Beetle.

Shaun
 

Drivbiwire

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2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
If anybody can show me Biodiesel that meets the following criteria you will have my attention:
ASTM D6751 standard and has the necessary oxidation stability (minimum 6 hours, proved with EN 14112 method) to preventdeposits and/or corrosion.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2004/session2/2004_deer_mccormick.pdf

Those two standards are the basis for what fuels can be run in the newest generation of diesels.

If you can't pass both those tests you should not be using it (B-XXX) in ANY Direct Injection diesel.

DB
 
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Mrrogers1

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kcfoxie said:
DWB is the sole reason I ran 64k miles on b100. To prove that a BRM does not explode. Since the engine is out on a hoist to repair the block due to an unforseen broken motor mount dog ear, I may pull the injectors and photograph them.

By all of his accounts my car SHOULD be toast....

Chipped, B100 since 2500-3000 miles till 64,000 miles, various feed stocks at that, and I even used non approved VW oil (and my cam at 90k looks better than any of the failed or about to fail cams at the same mileage)....

So we'll compare his photos to my photos, and see if there is any truth.

I applaud your statements Shaun.
Was this commercial b100 or home brew? That post by DB is freightning but I only use bio for the lubricity so "in moderation". I usually run b20 or less because it's always been said to be better, LOADS better for our cars now that the sulfur is out.

I will continue to be subscribed to this thread as it's always interesting. I can't wait to see what those injectors look like. Sounds like a nightmare was narrowly avoided. :)

Thanks for sharing!
 

kcfoxie

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'12 6-spd JSW
I've only used commercial B100, from five suppliers -- three in NC (Piedmont Biofuels, Carolina Biodiesel and Triangle Biofuels), One in Austin Texas (forget their name), and one in Iowa (some co-op that let me use their card). Prior to the 2.49 price from Triangle, Iowa was the cheapest price in my usage history. I've never had a single fuel related problem, unless you count chewing through the NON-EN14112 compliant MANN fuel filters a fuel system problem (frankly, the Jeep's always-air bubble laidened fuel filter design is more of a problem than the Jetta's ever been).

I also think that if my car is capable of busting part of it's block off due to power enhancements on B100, I'd have seen a cooked injectors by now.



I'm just sayin' .... my experience on a brand new motor differ, and I did it the mindless consumer way -- I drove to a different pump and filled up. No problems, no issues (less since MANN started selling EN14112 certified filters in the US, the current filter has 30k miles with switching and NO CLOGGING!)
 

ikendu

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2003 Golf Indigo Blue
Bio-Beetle said:
The most B100 miles we put on any car was 78,000 on a 2000 Golf.

Shaun
Just to add to the experience here, my '03 Golf TDI is at 123,000 miles in 6.5 years. The marjority of miles have been on B100 (summer, the bulk of my driving) with B50 in Spring/Fall and B20 in the winter.

Almost all of it Iowa virgin soy biodiesel factory made.

No problems what-so-ever, still running great.

I celebrate "Independence Day" every April 15th for that is when I can start running on 100% good 'ole U.S. of A. motor fuel with not one drop of petroleum going through my engine!

Maybe my engine is about to self-destruct, but somehow... I don't think so.
 

Bio-Beetle

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Drivbiwire said:
If you can't pass both those tests you should not be using it (B-XXX) in ANY Direct Injection diesel.

DB
Actually, YOU should not be using it if you have that "opinion." There are many people, including myself, who have used biodiesel for years without the catastrophic results you keep espousing, so it's incredibly arrogant of you to try to assume the mantle of fuel czar by telling others what they should and should not fuel their cars with. There's nothing wrong with giving people advice, but when you make an opinion as a statement of fact, when your facts are proven wrong over and over by those of us who are using biodiesel without the terrible issues you keep bringing up, then it's just as though you want to bash biodiesel for the sake of bashing biodiesel.

I'm in my 11th year of B100 use, in many different types of vehicles, for well over 1.3 million miles (including our recycling company trucks). And since I live in a place that has year round warm weather, I do not use blends. How do you explain that I have not had the issues you keep talking about? It can't be dumb luck.

Shaun
 

TDIMeister

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It's actually a little funny to read pages upon pages of emotional testimony from people, "My x car has run y thousands of miles for over z years," when the thread is discussing B100 use in a 2009 TDI. The OP has not posted in this thread in a month and has listed the `09 for sale (donno if he's sold it). As he stated, "I'll be looking to unload this petroleum-sucking turd."

So if there's nothing more to be said about this, the thread should be closed.

People who know me know I am no foe of Biodiesel. I just want to keep threads on topic and the noise-to-signal down.
 

ikendu

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Location
Iowa
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2003 Golf Indigo Blue
TDIMeister said:
It's actually a little funny to read pages upon pages of emotional testimony from people, "My x car has run y thousands of miles for over z years," when the thread is discussing B100 use in a 2009 TDI. The OP has not posted in this thread in a month and has listed the `09 for sale (donno if he's sold it). As he stated, "I'll be looking to unload this petroleum-sucking turd."

So if there's nothing more to be said about this, the thread should be closed.

People who know me know I am no foe of Biodiesel. I just want to keep threads on topic and the noise-to-signal down.
Well, I suppose you should close this thread. We are attracting comments like:

"If you can't pass both those tests you should not be using it (B-XXX) in ANY Direct Injection diesel." so I guess posters are truly ignoring the "2009" aspect.

Heck, closing the thread is certainly no worse that VW closing the chapter on use of biodiesel in their vehicles. To think that I used to recommend VW TDIs for years. Too too bad. Ah well, we'll all be driving to stores to buy Chinese goods in our Chinese vehicles before long.
 

Drivbiwire

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2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
ikendu said:
Well, I suppose you should close this thread. We are attracting comments like:

"If you can't pass both those tests you should not be using it (B-XXX) in ANY Direct Injection diesel." so I guess posters are truly ignoring the "2009" aspect.

.
Those tests are REQUIRED by Bosch to insure the proper function of the Common Rail injectors with Biodiesel. To date NO US Source of Biodiesel has proven itself to be able to pass those tests.

On my new ML320 BlueTEC the Fuel filter is located on top of the motor between the cylinder banks. temperature easily exceeds 100C for long periods! The rails (2) and the injectors all subject the fuel to temperatures far exceeding the tests 110C range!

Air bubbled through sample at 110°C.​
• Measures formation of volatile acids-not
directly related to fuel performance
• EN14214 requires min. 6 hr induction
time
• Only one US sample (out of 27) would meet this
requirement - 6 hr induction time may
not be appropriate for US biodiesel
• Antioxidants can increase induction time
Fact not emotion.

Another tidbit:
Biodiesel exhibits higher bulk modulus of compressibility than petro-diesel
• van Gerpen proposed that this causes advance in injection timing, increasing NOx (
J. Am. Oil Chemists Society, 2000. 77(3):285).
• More recently, Boehman has shown this experimentally, and that the start of combustion is also advanced by up to 4 CA degrees (SAE 2003-01-1039).
Biodiesel NOx may increase because of advanced injection timing and start of combustion

Biodiesel (B100) did not show a transition into high-efficiency clean combustion.
Somewhat surprising, expected O2 content to help.
All three petroleum-based fuels (CERT, CARB, ECD1) behaved very similarly.
B100 data was very erratic.
ORNL hopes to repeat some experiments this FY to confirm earlier results.

Read all about it...http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2004/session2/2004_deer_mccormick.pdf






 
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Rickstah

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OT, but the thing is about to flame out anyway...DRV, you made an interesting statement about your fuel filter being located where high temps would be expected...is it no longer an issue for fuel mixtures to be as cool (dense) as possible, or does this not make a diff in a liquid before being mixed with air...just curious, thanks.
 

d-man

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alberta
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[/QUOTE] tests are REQUIRED by Bosch to insure the proper function of the Common Rail injectors with Biodiesel. To date NO US Source of Biodiesel has proven itself to be able to pass those tests.
It is my understanding that the current ULSD does not meet the standards of the Fuel system manufacturers for lubricity but people are still burning ULSD, Bio-diesel is great, what do you think the first diesel motor was designed to burn anyway(for those who did not know peanut oil). There is new standards that the fuel must meet and quality is getting better all the time. You will not cause a rift in space and time, your motor will not be weapon of mass destruction, but you should most likely change your fuel filter at half the oem interval for peace of mind and run injector cleaner every time you change your oil. The definition of insanity is to go the same thing over and over expecting a different result. So if some people want to try and be greener and push the envelope a little why try and scare them with some outdated "THE BRITISH ARE COMING" scare tactics. Just wait, relax and read the results but most importantly if what you have to say is less important then silence maybe you should remain silent.
 

Naimanator

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Silver 2002 Golf GLS TDI
...Bio-diesel is great, what do you think the first diesel motor was designed to burn anyway(for those who did not know peanut oil).
Just a few clarifications... You seem to be comparing bio-diesel to peanut oil and stating that they are the same. They are not.

Also for the scope of this discussion it really doesn't matter what the first diesel engine was designed to run on. We're not discussing the original diesel engine, we're discussing current diesel engines. The technological differences between the two are so wide that comparing them is like comparing apples to asparagus.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
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2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
It is my understanding that the current ULSD does not meet the standards of the Fuel system manufacturers for lubricity but people are still burning ULSD,
All current model diesels are designed to run on D-975 compliant fuels. VW, MB and Bosch have beefed up the pumps to use DLC coatings in the high stage plungers to allow the high end lubricity (520 HFFR) fuels without damage or adverse wear.

Bio-diesel is great, what do you think the first diesel motor was designed to burn anyway(for those who did not know peanut oil).
Since we are not talking about an 1800's designed engine whats your point?

There is new standards that the fuel must meet and quality is getting better all the time. You will not cause a rift in space and time, your motor will not be weapon of mass destruction, but you should most likely change your fuel filter at half the oem interval for peace of mind and run injector cleaner every time you change your oil.
Changing the fuel more often than required will not improve the life of the motors fuel system. Installing a higher efficiency filter rated at 2 microns will even with 60,000+ mile change intervals.

Injector cleaner WILL NOT remove varnish or hardened veggy deposits. The only way these can be cleaned is thru mechanical removal or blasting in a heated ultra-sonic cleaner for 10-15 minutes.

The definition of insanity is to go the same thing over and over expecting a different result. So if some people want to try and be greener and push the envelope a little why try and scare them with some outdated "THE BRITISH ARE COMING" scare tactics. Just wait, relax and read the results but most importantly if what you have to say is less important then silence maybe you should remain silent.
It's not a scare tactic but a matter of fact. B100 especially Soy based DOES AND WILL result in extreme deposit formation in the injectors.

Sure you the cars will run on the stuff but the elevated risk of catastrophic failure is very real!
 

Bio-Beetle

Veteran Member
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Feb 2, 2003
Location
Maui
TDIMeister said:
So if there's nothing more to be said about this, the thread should be closed.
My bad, feel free to delete all of my recent posts in this thread.

However, to dismiss the posting of first hand experience of biodiesel use as "emotional testimony" is a bit off. You could just as easily say that those who regulary warn against biodiesel use, in all direct injection engines, are being emotional in their views. Let's just call it what it is - debate.

My direct experience with naysayers, including VW, is that when I purchased my first new TDI in 2000, to run on B100 ,I was specifically warned by VW that using any amount of biodiesel would ruin my engine. And they were wrong. In 2004 when we purchased our first PD TDI we were told by VW (and many in these forums) that using any amount of biodiesel would ruin the engine (and they meant it this time). And they were wrong. In fact, the same has been true for all new vehicles we have purchased. We have not yet purchased a 2009 because we do not need more cars at this time, so, in my opinion, the jury is still out on that engine. I hope to add a 2009 later this year. My perspective is of someone who has repeatedly been told that you can't run biodiesel in newer engines, but eveytime we buy a new car with the latest engine, we run B100, and it's okay. So, it's annoying that the naysayers just blithley ignore demonstrated performance. I'm open to the possibility that the 2009 VW might not be compatible with B100, but, in my opinion, it's still too early to make conclusions about that.

Shaun
 

tditom

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Sep 5, 2001
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san antonio & austin
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formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
Bio-Beetle said:
... I hope to add a 2009 later this year. ...
you could always contact Neurot to see if his has sold yet. Of course getting it out there may be a bit expensive :(
 
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