Dieselgate: Volkswagen to Spend Up to $14.7 Billion to Settle ...

What will you with your Dieselgate TDI

  • Turn it in for the cash.

    Votes: 319 67.6%
  • Bring it in for the "fix" and the cash.

    Votes: 81 17.2%
  • Do nothing but keep driving.

    Votes: 72 15.3%

  • Total voters
    472
  • Poll closed .
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rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
there is and will continue to be a market for "NEW" VWAG diesels in the US

You know the ones on the lot aren't "new", right? :)
They'll be a year old before they can be released - at best.
yes they are completely new never titled!

From your join date you seem to be unaware of the fact and president of previous model year produced vehicles being sold for up to two & a half years after initial production date.

The last time this was done was with the 2006.5 diesel editions produced all the way up to midnight 2006 complying with 06 MY emissions. These cars were specifically produced to be sold new shipped to dealers from late 2006 for sale for all of 2007 and were shipped and sold new until the spring/summer of 2008 when the current CRs were introduced...

.....So these are all new cars..... All the model year really stands for especially in specialty models like our diesels have been for a generation is in what rules safety and otherwise were in effect at the time of construction...

They can and will be sold as new for as long as they last in stock once this stupid emissions BS is resolved......The 2016 TDIs that are still in port waiting shipment will also begin to show up once this emission BS attack on diesels is over...

And there are many dealers with similar numbers(some have more and a few have less but all have at least some of these they will be selling soon) of a variety of models that will be moved to the front of the lot for immediate sale once this BS is resolved....Many dealers are looking forward to jump in sales of them being able to offer them again will give their dealers...

Contrary to rantings of the diesel haters, there are still many buyers out there who will jump at the chance once again to pick these up once they can be offered again....
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
Contrary to rantings of the diesel haters, there are still many buyers out there who will jump at the chance once again to pick these up once they can be offered again....
Don't need to be a diesel hater to see the writing on the wall.

There weren't that many before the scandal and so it's laughable to think there would be many after it. VW itself is packing up the diesel tents.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Don't need to be a diesel hater to see the writing on the wall.
There weren't that many before the scandal and so is laughable to think there will be many after it. VW itself is packing up the diesel tents.
I'm not at all convinced they are packing up the diesel tents just yet. I do think it behooves them to drop hints to that effect at the moment.
 

roberthaas

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
california
TDI
2011 Golf / 2015 TDI GSW
I traded in a 2011 Gulf TDi on my 2015 GSW in August of 2015. The dealer never sold it, nor auctioned it. When the scandal broke my old car was still sitting on their back lot. It sat there until Dec 2015. 5 months sitting outside.

I never filed for the $500/$500 for that car as it did not belong to me, however I doubt anyone ever thought to remove its eligibility.

I have the VIN, I should make a claim on line and see what happens.
 

PaulN

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Location
Houston
TDI
2015 Sportwagen TDI
As I understand it, all those new post stop-sale old TDIs are NOT just sitting on the lots wasting away. The dealerships are following a monthly resuscitation process to keep them in shape for subsequent sale...

Each month each one is being checked over for battery charge, fluid levels, tire pressure, etc., and then taken for a spin to refresh the engine internals with temperature and oil, and to check for any engine warning lights, etc.

I don't think it is unreasonable to believe those "old" new cars will be just fine when sold. What I wonder about is the currently titled ones that will get bought back and fixed for resale - the ones where the settlement terms and conditions financially encourage the owners to forgo maintenance and repairs prior to buyback.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
Stopped reading there. Join date does not equal or grant knowledge.
However, a recent one means the poster probably has not read the last several years of threads and MAY NOT be aware of the fact that they are posting something that is not 100% accurate. An example would be posting that 5W30 oil is perfectly fine for PD engines when the historical evidence shows way more cam damage with that weight than with 5W40.
 

McDaniken

Active member
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Location
Indiana
TDI
09 Salsa Red TDI Sportwagen
Reading through this forum it appears that there are more than a handful of people who pay MSRP or close, in this age of Truecar and Edmunds.

Amazing!
Amazing for recent purchases. In Sept of 2008, I was lucky to have to pay ONLY MSRP. Most of the dealerships in my area tacked on a grand or two premium for the new 2009's.
 

waltzconmigo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Location
chicagoland
TDI
none
What I meant to state was " You can't afford to purchase a car up front but you need to be seen in the Premium edition? "
Don't take offense to this, but people like you shouldn't be complaining about paying interest and losing money in auto deprecation. If you don't want to pay interest than buy a car up front, a used one. Is that too much for your ego?
and "THUD" another one goes into the .......... filing cabinet.
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
When your local sales tax rate is 9.75%...
I have always found it incomprehensible that some people add sales tax on what they pay for the car when making comparisons or claims. As is pointed out, the tax rate varies from place to place, and some states allow the full trade-in value to be deducted from the taxable amount, some states only some, and some none. Ours sales tax in Illinois, e.g., is 6.25% locally, but can be monkeyed with by counties, etc., and goes up to 10% up in Chicago and the collar counties.
I therefore submit (as I have done in other threads) that only the invoice amount for the car be used (and that probably should also exclude floor mats, racing stripe and tint jobs, tuning, and any other modification from what is on the car's sticker).
 

da_jokker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2009 Jetta
I have always found it incomprehensible that some people add sales tax on what they pay for the car when making comparisons or claims. As is pointed out, the tax rate varies from place to place, and some states allow the full trade-in value to be deducted from the taxable amount, some states only some, and some none. Ours sales tax in Illinois, e.g., is 6.25% locally, but can be monkeyed with by counties, etc., and goes up to 10% up in Chicago and the collar counties.
I therefore submit (as I have done in other threads) that only the invoice amount for the car be used (and that probably should also exclude floor mats, racing stripe and tint jobs, tuning, and any other modification from what is on the car's sticker).
If you don't include sales tax when you look at what you spend on something you are not making sound financial choices. You must include tax in your total, you include transaction fees in you online dealings, and you include commission when you buy and sell stocks.

If you bought something in a store and returned it, wouldn't you expect the full out the door price returned?

If someone is asking what you paid for a car to see if they are getting a good deal, then no....you wouldn't want to include tax. But when someone is saying how much their car cost them, then not including tax, warranties, etc would be idiotic.
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
If you don't include sales tax when you look at what you spend on something you are not making sound financial choices. You must include tax in your total, you include transaction fees in you online dealings, and you include commission when you buy and sell stocks.

If you bought something in a store and returned it, wouldn't you expect the full out the door price returned?

If someone is asking what you paid for a car to see if they are getting a good deal, then no....you wouldn't want to include tax. But when someone is saying how much their car cost them, then not including tax, warranties, etc would be idiotic.
This is something that only bears upon the individual's financial situation, and has nothing to do with comparing the cost of the vehicle. And yet some people add tax in, willy-nilly, sometimes only casually acknowledging that they did it after the fact.
Someone wants to list it separately fine, but, e.g, it's just not valid in considering whether or not one has been made whole by the settlement. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.
 

JohnNS

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Location
Nova Scotia
TDI
2009 JSW
However, a recent one means the poster probably has not read the last several years of threads and MAY NOT be aware of the fact that they are posting something that is not 100% accurate. An example would be posting that 5W30 oil is perfectly fine for PD engines when the historical evidence shows way more cam damage with that weight than with 5W40.
Sure, but there's no need to be condescending about it and that'a ll that line imparts. I don't reward stuff like that by reading or responding to it's contents.

Based on the length of the post I'm assuming the argument is that it's new because it's never been sold. It's not new, to me, because everything about it is a year old. I've seen online video games on WalMart's shelf who's servers shut down years ago - is that game new? Hardly. It's a new box with old stuff inside.
 

sandydeb

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Location
NJ
TDI
2014 Passat SE 6MT Black
Amazing for recent purchases. In Sept of 2008, I was lucky to have to pay ONLY MSRP. Most of the dealerships in my area tacked on a grand or two premium for the new 2009's.
It is a car - not a new cure for cancer. It is VERY close to being a fungible commodity, it is a depreciating asset and the price inevitably drops.

So I do not still see what the justification is for paying MSRP, let along more.

But even if someone did, that was the premium they paid for instant gratification. Just like some folks line up for days to get a new iPhone when they could walk into a store and buy it instantly a month later. I don't see how that should factor into any sort of 'average buyer' math.
 

sandydeb

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Location
NJ
TDI
2014 Passat SE 6MT Black
If you don't include sales tax when you look at what you spend on something you are not making sound financial choices.

If someone is asking what you paid for a car to see if they are getting a good deal, then no....you wouldn't want to include tax. But when someone is saying how much their car cost them, then not including tax, warranties, etc would be idiotic.
I believe OP mentioned 'when making comparisons or claims' pretty clearly.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
I have always found it incomprehensible that some people add sales tax on what they pay for the car when making comparisons or claims. As is pointed out, the tax rate varies from place to place, and some states allow the full trade-in value to be deducted from the taxable amount, some states only some, and some none. Ours sales tax in Illinois, e.g., is 6.25% locally, but can be monkeyed with by counties, etc., and goes up to 10% up in Chicago and the collar counties.
I therefore submit (as I have done in other threads) that only the invoice amount for the car be used (and that probably should also exclude floor mats, racing stripe and tint jobs, tuning, and any other modification from what is on the car's sticker).
So basically you would buy a $30,000 car and pay $3,000 in sales tax in Chi-town for a total of $33,000, then because sales tax should not be a consideration, you'd only deduct the $30,000 from your checkbook register? :eek: :-J
 
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romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
Sure, but there's no need to be condescending about it and that'a ll that line imparts. I don't reward stuff like that by reading or responding to it's contents.

Based on the length of the post I'm assuming the argument is that it's new because it's never been sold. It's not new, to me, because everything about it is a year old. I've seen online video games on WalMart's shelf who's servers shut down years ago - is that game new? Hardly. It's a new box with old stuff inside.
In other words like tires that routinely sit on the shelves for a year or two after manufacture before they're sold!
 

McDaniken

Active member
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Location
Indiana
TDI
09 Salsa Red TDI Sportwagen
It is a car - not a new cure for cancer. It is VERY close to being a fungible commodity, it is a depreciating asset and the price inevitably drops.
So I do not still see what the justification is for paying MSRP, let along more.
But even if someone did, that was the premium they paid for instant gratification. Just like some folks line up for days to get a new iPhone when they could walk into a store and buy it instantly a month later. I don't see how that should factor into any sort of 'average buyer' math.
What it is is simple economics. When something is brand new and in short supply, the economics favor the seller and the buyer must pay more for said object. When the supply is greater, the price goes down. Is that clear enough for you?
If you wanted the car in 2008, you had NO OPTION but to pay MSRP. Is that being a fanboy? I didn't think so at the time and still don't. I got the vehicle I wanted when I wanted it.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
It is a car - not a new cure for cancer. It is VERY close to being a fungible commodity, it is a depreciating asset and the price inevitably drops.

So I do not still see what the justification is for paying MSRP, let along more.

But even if someone did, that was the premium they paid for instant gratification. Just like some folks line up for days to get a new iPhone when they could walk into a store and buy it instantly a month later. I don't see how that should factor into any sort of 'average buyer' math.
Basically that is the law of supply and demand: if a car has a higher demand than supply, you'll pay at least MSRP if not more; if the demand drops enough and supply is higher, then you can end up paying much less than MSRP.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
What it is is simple economics. When something is brand new and in short supply, the economics favor the seller and the buyer must pay more for said object. When the supply is greater, the price goes down. Is that clear enough for you?
If you wanted the car in 2008, you had NO OPTION but to pay MSRP. Is that being a fanboy? I didn't think so at the time and still don't. I got the vehicle I wanted when I wanted it.
Looks like we were both posting at the same time!

Here is an example:

In 1989, the Mazda Miata was released to very high demand. While the BASE MSRP was $13,800, dealers were routinely getting around $20,000 for them. It was months before the MSRP price became normal.
 

MrSprdSheet

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Location
East Coast
TDI
'09 JSW TDI
Amazing for recent purchases. In Sept of 2008, I was lucky to have to pay ONLY MSRP. Most of the dealerships in my area tacked on a grand or two premium for the new 2009's.
You'd be lucky to find CR TDIs in all states, as of Sept. 2008. I bought above MSRP, in August, and have been putting receipts together this morning. $28,348, before travel expenses to the state that had the "clean" car. Base MSRP was $24,970.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
finally, some common sense

with few exceptions everyone who owns a VW TDi will be in a better place financially because of this scandal than they would have been without the scandal, whether they decide to trade the car or keep and accept fix and comp
In my case and numbers, I disagree. If I give up both cars in the buyback, I will get around $35k on cars that I spent about $51k on. Yes, I paid sticker on the JSW because they were a rare find in spring of 2010. If I try to replace both cars, I will need around $55k. I typically buy new for two reasons. One, I don't want to deal with someone else's problems. Two, I usually run the wheels off my cars. I know the buyback gives me more than I would get in trade even if dieselgate never happened, I'm just not seeing the rosy pictures others are painting.
 

Keith63

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI Premium; 1974 Karmin Ghia; 1973 Super Beetle
Will VW send a packet to be completed to each TDI owner?
 

sandydeb

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Location
NJ
TDI
2014 Passat SE 6MT Black
Basically that is the law of supply and demand: if a car has a higher demand than supply, you'll pay at least MSRP if not more;
I do not think there is any confusion in anyone's mind about the economics part of it.

We are talking mass production economy cars here, not limited edition invitation only supercars.

The focus is on MASS production. It is a given - absent some bizarre developments, that the supply of the car will very quickly get into a zone where the car is selling below sticker.

Given that fact, anyone who still chooses to go and pay a premium is doing so to get the car right then and there. If that is what they want - cool! Just like some folks are ecstatic about standing in line for 2 days to get their hands on an iPhone identical to the one that millions of other will own without the line part.

My only point is that no rational model is going to incorporate that premium paid for personal gratification into a 'reasonable' price model designed to compensate the 'average' buyer.

In my case, my preference for a specific car (manual SE black with beige interior) at the right price led to a 3 hour train ride and 200 mile drive back. But it would be irrational of me to expect that I would be compensated for that incremental time/cost.
 

Lobo56

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Location
NJ
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI
Reading through this forum it appears that there are more than a handful of people who pay MSRP or close, in this age of Truecar and Edmunds.

Amazing!
At the time I was shopping for a 2012 TDI premium they were selling like hot cakes. Went to 4 dealers and none would come off MSRP and they all flat out said we cant keep them on the lot.
 

sandydeb

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Location
NJ
TDI
2014 Passat SE 6MT Black
In my case and numbers, I disagree. If I give up both cars in the buyback, I will get around $35k on cars that I spent about $51k on. Yes, I paid sticker on the JSW because they were a rare find in spring of 2010. If I try to replace both cars, I will need around $55k. I typically buy new for two reasons. One, I don't want to deal with someone else's problems. Two, I usually run the wheels off my cars. I know the buyback gives me more than I would get in trade even if dieselgate never happened, I'm just not seeing the rosy pictures others are painting.
1) You are talking of barely 30% hit for a vehicles over 6 years old, which is quite low. In the normal market (pre disel-gate) your cars would be worth much less than the $35k. If you totaled both your cars tomorrow, no one would pay you $35k.

So VW is paying you UP from the economic value of your cars.

2) The replacement of 6 year old cars from an economic perspective is not two brand new cars. So that comparison is invalid.

Once again, I have no problem with VW paying everyone exactly what they bought their cars for, including taxes and what not. Not money out of my pocket - how do I care.

But no rational company would agree to pay that, and no judge would demand that. Such uneconomic personal preferences are not what settlements are based on. Just setting expectations.
 

sandydeb

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Location
NJ
TDI
2014 Passat SE 6MT Black
At the time I was shopping for a 2012 TDI premium they were selling like hot cakes. Went to 4 dealers and none would come off MSRP and they all flat out said we cant keep them on the lot.
In which case the gas version - selling well off MSRP, would end up being almost $5k cheaper. Which would drive the breakeven-point for gas-diesel to almost 150k miles!

Once again, you may have a specific preference for diesel which is nice and good. But that is NOT going to be the basis of numbers generated from economic model based for average buyers.
 

cyclopropene

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Location
MA
TDI
12 Golf DSG (Bought Back 12-12-18)
In my case and numbers, I disagree. If I give up both cars in the buyback, I will get around $35k on cars that I spent about $51k on. Yes, I paid sticker on the JSW because they were a rare find in spring of 2010. If I try to replace both cars, I will need around $55k. I typically buy new for two reasons. One, I don't want to deal with someone else's problems. Two, I usually run the wheels off my cars. I know the buyback gives me more than I would get in trade even if dieselgate never happened, I'm just not seeing the rosy pictures others are painting.
It's totally perspective, in my opinion. You have a 2010 and a 2011. If you sell both back for a total of $35k in 2018 you will have a combined 15 years of driving between them for just $16k out of pocket, or less than $90/month per vehicle. That's not bad at all. If you drove them both into the ground you would have to be driving for almost 24 years to spread the purchase price out that much, and that's ignoring repair costs as the vehicles aged.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
I do not think there is any confusion in anyone's mind about the economics part of it.

We are talking mass production economy cars here, not limited edition invitation only supercars.
Thank you for telling me that a Mazda Miata is NOT mass production, but is a "supercar". :rolleyes:

Now who'll give me $100,000 for my 1990 Mazda Miata? :D
 
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