Dieselgate: Volkswagen to Spend Up to $14.7 Billion to Settle ...

What will you with your Dieselgate TDI

  • Turn it in for the cash.

    Votes: 319 67.6%
  • Bring it in for the "fix" and the cash.

    Votes: 81 17.2%
  • Do nothing but keep driving.

    Votes: 72 15.3%

  • Total voters
    472
  • Poll closed .
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ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
Okay that's what I thought was the case. Just making sure that I didn't miss anything.
 

MHC48

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Location
USA- NY
TDI
2009 TDI DSG
Driving at my current level = selling the car back at the same amount anytime from Oct. 2016 to Mayish 2018. I could increase that amount if I drive less. Why would I not wait as long as possible and only sell it back early if I have some expensive maintenance issue occur?
*If* there are dealer incentives offered to attract TDI owners, my guess is they'd probably be offered at or close to the beginning of the buyback period. Both to encourage turn-ins and to help dealers to make up for their recent lost business.

Although, there might be a second round too, closer to the end of the buyback deadline if less owners than they anticipated turn in their cars or seem to be waiting to see if there is a fix. But it might be psychologically difficult (and risky) to wait until then to see if there is another round of "loyalty" incentives. VW just might write those owners off.
 

gmcjetpilot

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Location
Memphis TN
TDI
2010 JSW TDI DSG Matalic Grey
*If* there are dealer incentives offered to attract TDI owners, my guess is they'd probably be offered at or close to the beginning of the buyback period. Both to encourage turn-ins and to help dealers to make up for their recent lost business.
Are you assuming VW want's to buyback cars? I doubt it. No doubt VW wants to retain buyers, but loyalty offers are clearly not baked into this somewhat complex package. They are already giving out $5K to $10K restitution money above blue book or fix + cash. Not saying loyalty discount might not happen, but...

Although, there might be a second round too, closer to the end of the buyback deadline if less owners than they anticipated turn in their cars or seem to be waiting to see if there is a fix. But it might be psychologically difficult (and risky) to wait until then to see if there is another round of "loyalty" incentives. VW just might write those owners off.
The plan proposed is pretty explicit and comprehensive. VW plans on buying back XX%, fixing XX% and XX% opting out or never replying. Past recalls have only netted about 40% response, even for safety items. I talked to three TDI owners in parking lots between Sept 2015 and April 2016 who were clueless or unmotivated to do anything.

I read in the forum (did not read it in the "Exhibits" that VW must get 85% off the road or be fined more? Don't know if that is true. If true VW will be motivated to sweeten the pot. So waiting is good. Also waiting has not big disadvantage since you are basically getting depreciation free driving with value calculated back to Sept 2015, if you don't rack up too many miles.
 

romad

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Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
I agree, Diesels are NOT going away at all.

VW Diesel cars though, I don't see it in the North American future.

ALL this emission crap people say makes Diesel not worth the hassle, it's all coming to GAS Cars very soon:



Volkswagen may install diesel filters for gas-powered cars


.
Well, THAT should stop the mis-fueling. A filter that blocks diesel but allows gasoline through is a fantastic invention. Now what about the reverse: a gasoline filter for diesel powered vehicles? ;)
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/att._2a_-_golf_mileage_table.pdf
Read through the instructions up top. They assume a standard 1042 miles per month as a baseline. The compensation is based on your total mileage but also the number of months after Sept 2015 you turn in the car. If you can drive less and hold onto the car longer, your average mileage per month gets lower which means they pay you a little more. We're talking $300 every 5000 miles so it's not like there's a huge draw to do this especially if you're still paying on the car.
It would be good if more people would do this. This is the advantage in holding onto the car as long as possible before turning it in. After all, most will replace it with another vehicle, which will immediately start normal depreciation. The terms of the settlement place depreciation on your Dieselgatemobile in limbo, with very favorable mileage terms, so it's worth extending ownership as long as possible*.

*NB: The downside to this, as some have pointed out, is that a wreck that totals the car means one would only realize whatever money could be gotten from the insurance company, which, in my mind, would not be nearly what VW is going to pay us for our Passat. But I feel that's a risk I'm prepared to take. When the car needs new tires, probably in a year or so, we'll turn it in.
 

MHC48

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Location
USA- NY
TDI
2009 TDI DSG
Are you assuming VW want's to buyback cars?
VW has already bitten the bullet on how much they will have to shell out. I think, from their point of view, the more buybacks they get and the quicker they get them, the faster it puts the scandal and bad smell behind them, the more they can trumpet what a good deal VW owners got. By contrast, more owners taking the fix,or just waiting to see and decide whether to take the fix drags the whole thing out for almost two more years. And then two more years after that as drivers come in for warranty repairs or complaints. As well as complain (and post here!) about lost mileage, torque etc. etc.

Just as importantly, VW Dealers have lost lots of business and need to be placated by VAG. But even if VAG doesn't offer much, I think dealers themselves will try to take advantage of an available marketing name list of previous owners with unexpected cash potentially in their pockets and will themselves have an incentive to offer incentives.
 

MHC48

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Location
USA- NY
TDI
2009 TDI DSG
The terms of the settlement place depreciation on your Dieselgatemobile in limbo, with very favorable mileage terms, so it's worth extending ownership as long as possible
Come to think of it, 1042 miles a month is more generous than most lease terms you see advertised on TV, which are often 10k miles a year. Those are for new cars, but still.

I suppose you could look at it as a generous lease where they pay you when you turn in the car at the end. And the longer you hold on to the car, the potentially more they pay.

Notwithstanding what I wrote above, even if you miss the initial (possible) TDI Customer Loyalty incentives (assuming you'd buy a VW again), as we all know there will always be sales drives and incentives. And what dealer wouldn't prefer a buyer with cold cash in his hand vs. a trade in?
 

laminated

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Location
Canada
TDI
15 Sportwagen
In case anyone missed this tidbit. Yeah, they are going to slash HP and Torque...Will the modifications bring my car into compliance?
Because the vehicles were designed around the defeat device, they cannot be brought fully into compliance. However, the consent decree establishes stringent criteria for approving an emissions modification that will reduce emissions from these vehicles by 80% to 90% or more,
without any substantial reduction of fuel economy or performance.


Per consent decree requirements, VW will provide a warranty for any emissions modification.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
VW has already bitten the bullet on how much they will have to shell out. I think, from their point of view, the more buybacks they get and the quicker they get them, the faster it puts the scandal and bad smell behind them, the more they can trumpet what a good deal VW owners got. By contrast, more owners taking the fix,or just waiting to see and decide whether to take the fix drags the whole thing out for almost two more years. And then two more years after that as drivers come in for warranty repairs or complaints. As well as complain (and post here!) about lost mileage, torque etc. etc.

<snip>

Right now the fix money looks good.

Issue is to do it quickly or in 24 months? Risk is a TOTALED wreck

Not worried about lost MPG TORQUE ~~ much

Believe we will get some info on performance ~~ and we have the 150,000 mile 10 year warranty

Believe the future resale value will do well enough ~~ (my 2015 Golf DSG TDI)
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
If you think VW is watching these threads

... to gain an advantage over the "cost & timing" " of buy backs etc, maybe they are.

... but as time goes along the REAL completion rate will be the reality of it.

.... VW is free to offer additional incentives if they NEED to speed up the rate of completion.
 

CraziFuzzy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Location
Jurupa Valley
TDI
'09 JSW (GoneBack) - replaced with '15 Azera and '16 Fiat 500e.
... to gain an advantage over the "cost & timing" " of buy backs etc, maybe they are.

... but as time goes along the REAL completion rate will be the reality of it.

.... VW is free to offer additional incentives if they NEED to speed up the rate of completion.
I have a feeling the 2 year window was one of logistics, not leniency. They simply can't take in that many cars (for buyback OR repair) in a shorter time. I doubt they will be trying to speed it up.
 

Philpug

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Location
Reno, NV
TDI
Gone but not forgotten
Are you assuming VW want's to buyback cars? I doubt it. No doubt VW wants to retain buyers, but loyalty offers are clearly not baked into this somewhat complex package. They are already giving out $5K to $10K restitution money above blue book or fix + cash. Not saying loyalty discount might not happen, but...

The plan proposed is pretty explicit and comprehensive. VW plans on buying back XX%, fixing XX% and XX% opting out or never replying. Past recalls have only netted about 40% response, even for safety items. I talked to three TDI owners in parking lots between Sept 2015 and April 2016 who were clueless or unmotivated to do anything.

I read in the forum (did not read it in the "Exhibits" that VW must get 85% off the road or be fined more? Don't know if that is true. If true VW will be motivated to sweeten the pot. So waiting is good. Also waiting has not big disadvantage since you are basically getting depreciation free driving with value calculated back to Sept 2015, if you don't rack up too many miles.
Heh, you use the word "loyalty", IMHO VW has shown no "loyalty" to us as a consumer, loyalty goes both ways. Their resolution for this scandal has been pure business, simple numbers. For me to consider going into another VW product, they will have to offer me not only a significant discount, but 0% financing and maintentance included.

I have an article to be published tomorrow about the lack of communication between VW and their dealers, there has been zero communication up to this point. I will post a link.
 
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2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
I have a feeling the 2 year window was one of logistics, not leniency. They simply can't take in that many cars (for buyback OR repair) in a shorter time. I doubt they will be trying to speed it up.
Yep,

But IF they do start to run behind the insensitives may kick in
 

CraziFuzzy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Location
Jurupa Valley
TDI
'09 JSW (GoneBack) - replaced with '15 Azera and '16 Fiat 500e.
Yep,

But IF they do start to run behind the insensitives may kick in
Yeah, I don't see that happening (the incentives OR the running behind). When people have a known and readily available offer for their existing car sitting there, there will be a LOT of itch to get something new. Even those who have run the numbers and thought, "hmm.. I can make an extra $500 if I keep the car the full 2 years," and even the ones who've decided they aren't going to let anyone 'take' or 'touch' their precious car, are going to get an itch every time they see a car they might like - the thought process will then be "ooh.. that's nice - and with the VW cash sitting there for the taking, I can get it tomorrow for $x..."
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
Yeah, I don't see that happening (the incentives OR the running behind). When people have a known and readily available offer for their existing car sitting there, there will be a LOT of itch to get something new. Even those who have run the numbers and thought, "hmm.. I can make an extra $500 if I keep the car the full 2 years," and even the ones who've decided they aren't going to let anyone 'take' or 'touch' their precious car, are going to get an itch every time they see a car they might like - the thought process will then be "ooh.. that's nice - and with the VW cash sitting there for the taking, I can get it tomorrow for $x..."
They had trouble giving away $1000 no strings attached, and you think folks will run right down and drop off a car now? Car shopping is just about the last thing on my list of things to do, couple with folks that weren't even thinking about it, offering barely enough to satisfy DOJ isn't really much of a motivator to the general public.
 

2015golfwagon

Veteran Member
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Location
Florida
TDI
Golf Wagon
I can just picture watching the evening news the first day of the buyback, TDI's lined up for miles down the highway at the VW dealerships :)
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
I can just picture watching the evening news the first day of the buyback, TDI's lined up for miles down the highway at the VW dealerships :)
They thought of the optics, which is why you have to get a turn in date, sometime in the next 90 days after requesting it.
 

gliitch

Well-known member
Joined
May 14, 2014
Location
FL
TDI
MKVI Golf
They thought of the optics, which is why you have to get a turn in date, sometime in the next 90 days after requesting it.
I have not read through all the court docs. Is this something that we need/should do now?
 

autdi

Veteran Member
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Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
I have not read through all the court docs. Is this something that we need/should do now?
Nothing to do until the CAS final settlement hearing Oct first week, court to likely set the date in the July hearing. you'll get something in the mail, likely in August, so nothing to do for the present unless you want to comment to the DOJ, FTC, or the court on the CAS docs. But none of the commenting websites have been enabled yet for DOJ or FTC, and the CAS won't start until after the July 26 date anyway, for today, there is really nothing to do.
 

TwinWagons

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Location
Naperville
TDI
2 x 2014 Sportwagons
IMO

sit tight for now

just do NOT Total it

It's been brought up by others, but just as a reminder, if your car is totaled before you do a buyback or fix, they won't reimburse you for the NADA value, but they will still give you the compensation. Insurance companies will likely pay very close to the NADA value, so you won't lose everything.

Example - if september 2015 NADA 18,000 and current NADA 14,500.

Ins pays 14,500 and VW pays 20% of 18,000 plus ~$3k or $6,600, so you'd get $21,100.

Not as good as the $24, 600 you'd have gotten, but better than it would otherwise have been. You always lose if your car is totaled, whether you're going to get a buyback or not.

If you can afford it, buy a different new car, park the VW, and then when the other car gets totaled you'll get screwed over by insurance company on that car instead of the VW.

:-(
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
It's been brought up by others, but just as a reminder, if your car is totaled before you do a buyback or fix, they won't reimburse you for the NADA value, but they will still give you the compensation. Insurance companies will likely pay very close to the NADA value, so you won't lose everything.

Example - if september 2015 NADA 18,000 and current NADA 14,500.

Ins pays 14,500 and VW pays 20% of 18,000 plus ~$3k or $6,600, so you'd get $21,100.

Not as good as the $24, 600 you'd have gotten, but better than it would otherwise have been. You always lose if your car is totaled, whether you're going to get a buyback or not.

If you can afford it, buy a different new car, park the VW, and then when the other car gets totaled you'll get screwed over by insurance company on that car instead of the VW.

:-(
WOW

Tricky

Thanks
 

buzzo

Active member
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Location
CT
TDI
(sold)'11 JSW ('16 340ix, '07 V70R)
It's been brought up by others, but just as a reminder, if your car is totaled before you do a buyback or fix, they won't reimburse you for the NADA value, but they will still give you the compensation. Insurance companies will likely pay very close to the NADA value, so you won't lose everything.

Example - if september 2015 NADA 18,000 and current NADA 14,500.

Ins pays 14,500 and VW pays 20% of 18,000 plus ~$3k or $6,600, so you'd get $21,100.

Not as good as the $24, 600 you'd have gotten, but better than it would otherwise have been. You always lose if your car is totaled, whether you're going to get a buyback or not.

If you can afford it, buy a different new car, park the VW, and then when the other car gets totaled you'll get screwed over by insurance company on that car instead of the VW.

:-(
Are you referring to what happens after the opt-out date, because the only thing in there I see regarding totaling your diesel between June 28 and the opt-out date is that you're entitled to nothing except suing VW on your own.
 

TwinWagons

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Location
Naperville
TDI
2 x 2014 Sportwagons
Are you referring to what happens after the opt-out date, because the only thing in there I see regarding totaling your diesel between June 28 and the opt-out date is that you're entitled to nothing except suing VW on your own.
someone else posted better info earlier, here's what I found in a quick search:

VXIII
F.F.

For any Eligible Owner with an Eligible Vehicle that is Operable as of the date setby the Court for consumers to opt out of the Class Action or the Effective Date, whichever is earlier, but which ceases to be Operable before the vehicle can be brought in for a Buyback, upon submission of an Eligible Owner’s complete and valid claim application pursuant to Section XIII and surrender of all right, title, and interest in, and possession of, the Eligible Vehicle to Defendant at a Volkswagen Dealer (or other entity authorized by Defendant), Defendant shall pay Eligible Owner Non-Operable Restitution to the Eligible Owner. If an Eligible Owner does not possess title to the Eligible Vehicle, for title to the Eligible Vehicle to be transferred to Defendant, the Eligible Owner and Defendant must complete the steps required by Subsection G.1 and the claim application pursuant to Section XIII.

S.“Eligible Owner Non-Operable Restitution” means the monetary compensation that Defendant will pay to Eligible Owners under the Settlement Program whose vehicle is Operable as of the earlier of the date set by the Court for consumers to opt out of the Class Action or the Effective Date, but which ceases to be Operable before the vehicle can be surrendered for a Buyback or receive an Approved Emissions Modification, specified in the second column of Attachment 1A.



 

AmandaSch

Veteran Member
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Location
Philadelphia, Pa
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG
If we take the fix, but our restitution $$ is below 5100, that we'll still get that amount and then the mileage deduction would not matter.
 

PaulN

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Location
Houston
TDI
2015 Sportwagen TDI
Options or Choices???

Still not finding definitive document text indicating the buyback and fix are true options (meaning all class members get owner restitution independent of whether they accept either option or decline both options); or, if one must chose an option to receive restitution.

The options are being called "options", but it is not clear if they are optional with respect to owner restitution.

The language in the documents hints in a few places that restitution may not depend on accepting either option, but generally seems worded elsewhere to carefully avoid making this clear.

Anyone find yet where this is clarified to a certainty?
 

CraziFuzzy

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Jurupa Valley
TDI
'09 JSW (GoneBack) - replaced with '15 Azera and '16 Fiat 500e.
You have three choices.

1.) Take part in the Class Action Settlement and sell your car back to VW. Get NADA clean trade + restitution.
2.) Take part in the Class Action Settlement and have VW fix your car. Get restitution.
3.) Opt out of the Class Action. Get nothing, unless you sue on your own.
 

wmichaelis

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Location
New Jersey
TDI
2015 Jetta SE TDI
I've seen a couple others posting in this thread about the "cluelessness" of VW dealers they've been to, in regard to the whole Dieselgate issue.

I myself encountered this - when I took my car in for it's 10,000 mile servicing in January, I talked with the salesman who sold me my car, and he seemed completely in the dark. When I returned in March to get my $500 gift card and $500 VW credit (which I used to buy window air deflectors and roof rails), he was still at a loss.

Has anyone here encountered a dealer who seemed better informed?

My wife has also told me, that as a part of the settlement, VW is forbidden to offer any special deals contingent on you taking either settlement - although I haven't seen that anywhere else, but she's more of a read a 40+ page settlement type of person than I am. Has anyone else heard/read that anywhere?
 

Bahamut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Cobourg, ON, Canada
TDI
2014 Passat Comfortline TDI, DSG
I've seen a couple others posting in this thread about the "cluelessness" of VW dealers they've been to, in regard to the whole Dieselgate issue.

I myself encountered this - when I took my car in for it's 10,000 mile servicing in January, I talked with the salesman who sold me my car, and he seemed completely in the dark. When I returned in March to get my $500 gift card and $500 VW credit (which I used to buy window air deflectors and roof rails), he was still at a loss.

Has anyone here encountered a dealer who seemed better informed?

My wife has also told me, that as a part of the settlement, VW is forbidden to offer any special deals contingent on you taking either settlement - although I haven't seen that anywhere else, but she's more of a read a 40+ page settlement type of person than I am. Has anyone else heard/read that anywhere?
I've been really lucky with the dealer that I bought my Passat from: they actually seem to be one of the few that are genuinely concerned about customer service. I was able to talk to them about terms for the Goodwill cards when they came out. One of my co-workers also has a Jetta TDI from them, and spoke to the sales person that he bought the car from: she was just as frustrated with VW as he was since she owned a TDI as well. They're just as much in the dark as we are and want a resolution as well.

I think that the majority of people that follow this forum are easily as well-informed as, if not better than, the dealers.
 
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