Dieselgate: Volkswagen to Spend Up to $14.7 Billion to Settle ...

What will you with your Dieselgate TDI

  • Turn it in for the cash.

    Votes: 319 67.6%
  • Bring it in for the "fix" and the cash.

    Votes: 81 17.2%
  • Do nothing but keep driving.

    Votes: 72 15.3%

  • Total voters
    472
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

TwinWagons

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Location
Naperville
TDI
2 x 2014 Sportwagons
I don't expect a fix to meet my standards and if it requires adding an AdBlue tank, well then that penalizes me for exactly one of the reasons I bought a 2013 Jetta: to avoid the AdBlue as VW said it wasn't required on the Jetta at that time. I don't even trust the fix to be reliable, as many of the original external engine components/systems on this vehicle haven't proven to be reliable.
I know what you mean - I was pretty much set on the buyout until the provisional fix info came out. - IF - all they do is upgrade the LNT and don't take out the dash and drill holes in the body and increase the EGR, the fix is looking like it wouldn't be too destructive to the car.

And the 10 year / 120,000 mile warranty (or 4 years, 48,000 from the time of the fix, whichever is better for me) on all the stuff that we know can break and be expensive to replace (HPFP, DPF, Intake Flap, Injectors) is really good. It takes away the one issue with TDIs that was hard to ignore, that some owners get hit with giant repair bills, seemingly at random. If the "fix" fixes as that, it will be great.
 

Vidgamer

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2011
Location
Atlanta, Ga
TDI
2011 Golf TDI (turned in)
Maybe I'm a "half empty" guy but seems like you are going to be looking at all of expensive maintenance coming up....seems like the perfect time to sell....especially with the bonus money.
But driving 1000 miles a week, how much money do you save? It might be worth the maintenance. Plus you're still not putting out the kind of money you need for a new car....
 

jayp111

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Undisclosed location
TDI
n/a
I don't know if anyone realizes or not, but Selling back your TDI means you'll never get another one ever again.

VW likely to never sell any diesel cars ever again in USA.


End is near for Diesel Volkswagen


Volkswagen Questions Future of Diesel, Electrics easier


Question over future of diesel for VW



Electric cars time has not come by a long shot yet, still way off the mark, expensive, terrible resale, expensive batteries, very poor range, you name it. Not ready for mainstream yet.
I wouldnt bet on the diesel engine going anywhere for decades

The primary reason for this is surprisingly emmissions imho

Diesels are cleaner in every way except for NOX and NOX is fairly easily mitigated....lets not even get into the manipulation of standards by the epa and others over what is a pollutant and what is not.......not even going to touch the "weekend effect" either

If folks are going to start to agitate over cars meeting some real world set of tests vs current well defined test regimen like what the EPA uses then there are some harsh realities that are going to smack people in the face.....gassers pump out a lot of pollution and those very small particluates that gassers are known for are very carcinogenic

Electric is impractical when you consider range, regarging pain and cost/complexity to build not to mention recycle.....

Consider for a moment which countries hold the vast majority of natural resources required to build those batteries
 

RollingCoal

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Location
Md
TDI
2015 Golf Tdi SEL
When I bought my TDI, I was driving around 18k miles per year but a recent job change has me up at 30k per year until I move. With the preliminary settlement documents out, I've calculated that I will lose around $300 every 2 months due to mileage. That's more than the difference in fuel cost for even a Golf R that gets upper 20mpg's and needs premium fuel. It's going to be best for me to take the buyback asap.

I went up to a local VW dealer yesterday to see if they had any plans on providing good deals for TDI owners to keep them in a VW. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised when they said I've already been compensated with the $1k and they'd be happy to take mine as a trade. Even if VW hasn't provided them anything official yet, apparently they don't watch the news. The showroom was completely empty but service was packed at this particular dealership.
I agree that VW really needs to step up the communication with dealerships and keep them posted with what's going on. They should at least know what we know and often times they know less. When I bought my tdi I ended up trying four different dealerships and I wasn't impressed with any of them as far as the dealers being motivated to move cars. Ive purchased 4 cars from dealerships in my life and VW dealerships by far seemed to have the worst sales people and managers. I remember driving to one over an hour a way after talking to a sales guy on the phone for 30 mins. I had already negotiated hard on two identical SEL's at other dealerships and walked so I knew about the bottom line on the car at the time considering its newness. I got to that dealer over an hour a way who assured me before going out there he could get the sales manager to hit the price I asked for and when I got there he flat out wouldn't do it. I got all the way home and he called me two hours later saying the manager agreed to the price come get the car. I told him no thank you. The fourth dealer was the best of the four but only because the sales manager was a push over. He took my offer after about 20 mins and I left with my car. The sales folks at all 4 dealerships were much more clueless and generally useless than the people I had dealt with at Toyota previously.
 

TwinWagons

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Location
Naperville
TDI
2 x 2014 Sportwagons
i will repeat it again:

it is VW that wants to buy the car, not us that want to sell them.

My car is paid for, well maintained, i have 178k miles on it and i bought a diesel obviously because i am driving a lot. and i am getting about $10,000 for it.

Why should i get 10K and have to buy a new car that won't even be close to what i have (conditions, mpg, torque etc) for the money they are giving me? because if i consider the taxes, with 10K on hand i can buy something in the 8000 range...
Whether you want to keep the car or not, in your position I'd take the fix cash and 4 year/48,000 factory warranty. Then either keep the car or sell it. If it's in something close to decent shape that warranty (pretty much a new car warranty on most of the stuff that's expensive to fix) would make your car worth much more on the used car market. You still have the 12 year rust warranty, too. Your car is going to be worth quite a bit to a private party (assuming VW doesn't screw the pooch with whatever final design constitutes the fix - we won't know that for quite a while)
 

da_jokker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2009 Jetta
But driving 1000 miles a week, how much money do you save? It might be worth the maintenance. Plus you're still not putting out the kind of money you need for a new car....
Very true. Spending 3k on a dpf is alot cheaper than buying a new car. I guess for me it is two fold..

1) vw has just left a bad taste and I just don't know if I am willing to deal with them or their dealers.

2) the buyback of my tdi will cover my down oin a new car and my payments won't go up tons (maybe 60 a month). Of course I will be starting off for a 5 year loan but I still have 3 years left on my vw anyway.
 

da_jokker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2009 Jetta
To clarify.. So if you opt for the fix, and actually have it done to your car and hate it, you can't then sell it back right? At that point you either have the lemon laws to deal with or just sell it at market value to a private seller?
 

TwinWagons

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Location
Naperville
TDI
2 x 2014 Sportwagons
Realistically, VW is not going to fix GEN 1 cars. The legal issues with the modifications they would have to make. Besides don't you think as others have pointed out, that if they could fix GEN 1, they would have before this mess got started. So yes the settlement is a buy out of a non compliant car as mandate by the courts/EPA/CARB.
The proposed settlement is for a "fix" that still leaves the Gen 1 cars emitting at 4 times the limit (instead of 10 to 40, most of the time). That's part of what the $5 billion in fines and clean energy investments is to compensate for. VW thinks that they can get nox emissions down that much with a new design LNT. They'll be paying to have a lot of old trucks (that are horrible in terms of emissions) taken off the road, too. That's why the EPA might allow that partial "fix."
 

Vidgamer

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2011
Location
Atlanta, Ga
TDI
2011 Golf TDI (turned in)
The proposed settlement is for a "fix" that still leaves the Gen 1 cars emitting at 4 times the limit (instead of 10 to 40, most of the time). That's part of what the $5 billion in fines and clean energy investments is to compensate for. VW thinks that they can get nox emissions down that much with a new design LNT. They'll be paying to have a lot of old trucks...
If they can do this without adversely affecting performance and mileage too much, a lot of people might find this appealing?
 

TCBinaflash

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Location
Chagrin Falls, OH
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
I'm seriously considering getting the fix and buying another TDI with the fix money. I've been looking at options and can't find anything appealing.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2013 Beetle, 2013 Touareg
I wouldnt bet on the diesel engine going anywhere for decades

The primary reason for this is surprisingly emmissions imho

Diesels are cleaner in every way except for NOX and NOX is fairly easily mitigated....lets not even get into the manipulation of standards by the epa and others over what is a pollutant and what is not.......not even going to touch the "weekend effect" either

If folks are going to start to agitate over cars meeting some real world set of tests vs current well defined test regimen like what the EPA uses then there are some harsh realities that are going to smack people in the face.....gassers pump out a lot of pollution and those very small particluates that gassers are known for are very carcinogenic

Electric is impractical when you consider range, regarging pain and cost/complexity to build not to mention recycle.....
EV are also not zero emissions, they just emit somewhere else. Based on published findings, unless you live in upstate NY where almost all electricity is hydro sourced, your EV is worse on the environment by miles driven, than a diesel.
Consider for a moment which countries hold the vast majority of natural resources required to build those batteries
Um, Canada? Most of the components come out of the ground in western Canada, float to Scandinavia, then on to China, then Japan, then back again. The manufacturing process is a real mess, your batteries have already circled the globe before they got in the car.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2013 Beetle, 2013 Touareg
To clarify.. So if you opt for the fix, and actually have it done to your car and hate it, you can't then sell it back right? At that point you either have the lemon laws to deal with or just sell it at market value to a private seller?
There are piles of them on dealer lots right now, I suspect you could test drive a fixed one first. That would be logical to offer, drive it for a few hours and see before opening a bigger can of worms, you said it would do this, it doesn't. Having driven it, you know what it will behave like, if you get more than a 15 minute around the block.

Having used the logical word, you can bet that'll never happen.
 

dslman

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2001
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta, 2000 GOLF, 2013 Touareg, 2015 Q5
I wouldnt bet on the diesel engine going anywhere for decades

The primary reason for this is surprisingly emmissions imho

Diesels are cleaner in every way except for NOX and NOX is fairly easily mitigated....lets not even get into the manipulation of standards by the epa and others over what is a pollutant and what is not.......not even going to touch the "weekend effect" either

If folks are going to start to agitate over cars meeting some real world set of tests vs current well defined test regimen like what the EPA uses then there are some harsh realities that are going to smack people in the face.....gassers pump out a lot of pollution and those very small particluates that gassers are known for are very carcinogenic

Electric is impractical when you consider range, regarging pain and cost/complexity to build not to mention recycle.....

Consider for a moment which countries hold the vast majority of natural resources required to build those batteries
I agree, Diesels are NOT going away at all.

VW Diesel cars though, I don't see it in the North American future.

ALL this emission crap people say makes Diesel not worth the hassle, it's all coming to GAS Cars very soon:



Volkswagen may install diesel filters for gas-powered cars


.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
There are piles of them on dealer lots right now, I suspect you could test drive a fixed one first. That would be logical to offer, drive it for a few hours and see before opening a bigger can of worms, you said it would do this, it doesn't. Having driven it, you know what it will behave like, if you get more than a 15 minute around the block.

Having used the logical word, you can bet that'll never happen.
There are no fixed ones yet.
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
There are piles of them on dealer lots right now, I suspect you could test drive a fixed one first. That would be logical to offer, drive it for a few hours and see before opening a bigger can of worms, you said it would do this, it doesn't. Having driven it, you know what it will behave like, if you get more than a 15 minute around the block.

Having used the logical word, you can bet that'll never happen.

That would be cool to do - try it out first if possible. I certainly DO NOT want to be the tester.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2013 Beetle, 2013 Touareg
That would be cool to do - try it out first if possible. I certainly DO NOT want to be the tester.
That's kinda the point, nobody will want to go first. VW already has plenty of lease returns right now that once a fix is approved, can immediately modify. They can't sell them until they modify them, so they might as well go first. Demo with some at each dealer, and you get a feel for how it changes.
 

dslman

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2001
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta, 2000 GOLF, 2013 Touareg, 2015 Q5
EV are also not zero emissions, they just emit somewhere else. Based on published findings, unless you live in upstate NY where almost all electricity is hydro sourced, your EV is worse on the environment by miles driven, than a diesel.
Also, it still costs too much to own and drive an Electric car, they DO NOT save money, in fact if we were to go back 4 years ago 2012 & say a person had $36,000 to buy a new vehicle they would drive over the next 4 years & put 50,000 miles on it.

Including cost of GAS & Resale value at the end of 4 years.

I calculated it out, & it actually cost OVER $10,000 MORE if you had purchased a Nissan LEAF compared to a GAS Ford F-150 Crew Cab, and that's figuring being able to charge the Leaf 100% FREE for the full 4 years/50 thousand miles.

Not even mentioning all the hassle of only 60 to 70 miles range & taking forever to recharge.


People are clueless if they buy an electric car NOW based on that it saves them money, it will change in the future, but how far off is that future savings?


.
 

CHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2016
Location
The Great Pacific Northwest
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 4D DSG (gone buyback)
When I bought my TDI, I was driving around 18k miles per year but a recent job change has me up at 30k per year until I move. With the preliminary settlement documents out, I've calculated that I will lose around $300 every 2 months due to mileage. That's more than the difference in fuel cost for even a Golf R that gets upper 20mpg's and needs premium fuel. It's going to be best for me to take the buyback asap.
In your cost calculation, remember to calculate the depreciation of the replacement vehicle at 30K miles per year. You might still come out ahead (maybe way ahead) by keeping what you have at $300/2 months ($1,800/year) depreciation until you either move or until the end of the buyback period.
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
Well said comment there. I bought my 2011 JSW brand new with 2 miles on the clock in Aug 2010, now she have 224k miles running on original HPFP, Turbo, Shocks, Brakes and rotors. She is truly amazing and buyback isn't a option for me, I'd like to keep her as one of those 15 percenter until she is over 500K-700K if possible. I never had a car as reliable as she have been. Gasser scares me. VW Gasser has plastic water pump and already failing within 6 months to a year. That scares me lol because I average drive 1,000 miles weekly or more.
It's folks like yourself that really benefit from the TDI. You're exactly the driver that needs the TDI. Fuel savings can really add up.

I don't know if anyone realizes or not, but Selling back your TDI means you'll never get another one ever again.
VW likely to never sell any diesel cars ever again in USA....... SNIP
I don't know how true that statement is. Until VW says it I would still think that vw will be selling them here for the exact reason stated above from calimustang.

I've heard it from a few folks at dealers that there's still intrest in the diesels here in the US.
 

gcodori

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Location
northern california (bay area)
TDI
2001 NB TDI plus CPO 2013 Passat TDI SEL Prem.
It's folks like yourself that really benefit from the TDI. You're exactly the driver that needs the TDI. Fuel savings can really add up.


I don't know how true that statement is. Until VW says it I would still think that vw will be selling them here for the exact reason stated above from calimustang.

I've heard it from a few folks at dealers that there's still intrest in the diesels here in the US.
They won't go away totally. The 3.0 will get a fix. Sounds simple too.

And the 3.0 will be in the more expensive vehicles anyway.

It will be their stop gap to bridge over to full electric.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

BajaRon

New member
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Location
East Tennessee
TDI
2013 Jetta Sportwagen
The VW Internet forums are exploding, and the answer to a simple question still isn't clear. Will VW have future TDi sales, the 2016's stuck in port, or otherwise?

Cheers!

LongEZ
I think it's pretty clear. Our government is killing the diesel just like they have killed coal, independent refineries, and several other enterprises and products that they don't like. They don't ban them outright. They simply regulate them to death.

VW has seen the handwriting on the wall. Even if they do manage to meet the current and the ridiculously stringent future emissions standards. Our all knowing government will simply ratchet them up again. It takes teams of engineers, a lot of money and years of effort to meet a standard. It takes about 10 minutes for the government to change the rules.

This while they lie to the public telling us that electric cars produce ZERO pollution.

I hope I'm wrong. But I fear that I am not.
 

Sharkey

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Location
Huntington Beach, CA
TDI
2005 Golf TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI
What kills me in reading all of the environmental data is that no one ever mentions the impact these cars have by physically using less fossil fuel. If every car on the road got 40+ mpg and could run on renewables (like Propel HPR available out here in CA) we'd be drilling/transporting/refining/burning a lot less dinosaurs.
 

kapps

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Location
Orlando
TDI
2014 Golf 6MT
In your cost calculation, remember to calculate the depreciation of the replacement vehicle at 30K miles per year. You might still come out ahead (maybe way ahead) by keeping what you have at $300/2 months ($1,800/year) depreciation until you either move or until the end of the buyback period.
I've actually been going through those numbers right now. I also didn't realize the mileage deduction was based on months from Sept 2015 so when I move closer to work and drive say 150 miles per week instead of 550 like I do now, I'm getting money back every month I hold onto the car. Plus any car I'm interested in will cost more than the TDI and the monthly payment will go up so it does actually make sense to hold onto the TDI at least until I'm settled in my next home.
 

jhawklver

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Location
Kansas City
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI
I've actually been going through those numbers right now. I also didn't realize the mileage deduction was based on months from Sept 2015 so when I move closer to work and drive say 150 miles per week instead of 550 like I do now, I'm getting money back every month I hold onto the car. Plus any car I'm interested in will cost more than the TDI and the monthly payment will go up so it does actually make sense to hold onto the TDI at least until I'm settled in my next home.
The government wants these cars off the road, but low mileage drivers are basically given an incentive to keep their cars for 20 more months or so (not sure the actual deadline for sure).

Driving at my current level = selling the car back at the same amount anytime from Oct. 2016 to Mayish 2018. I could increase that amount if I drive less. Why would I not wait as long as possible and only sell it back early if I have some expensive maintenance issue occur?
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
They won't go away totally. The 3.0 will get a fix. Sounds simple too.

And the 3.0 will be in the more expensive vehicles anyway.

It will be their stop gap to bridge over to full electric.
I still like diesel powered cars/suvs/trucks. It's more efficient than the alternative gas powered counterpart. I'd consider a 3.0 tdi, however they also have hpfp issues.

I don't see electric cars working well for those that have a long commute or road trips.

I think it's pretty clear. Our government is killing the diesel just like they have killed coal, independent refineries, and several other enterprises and products that they don't like. They don't ban them outright. They simply regulate them to death.

VW has seen the handwriting on the wall. Even if they do manage to meet the current and the ridiculously stringent future emissions standards. Our all knowing government will simply ratchet them up again. It takes teams of engineers, a lot of money and years of effort to meet a standard. It takes about 10 minutes for the government to change the rules.

This while they lie to the public telling us that electric cars produce ZERO pollution.

I hope I'm wrong. But I fear that I am not.
I hope you're wrong too... but I've seen the government use attrition tactics to smother out things they deem bad before. The EPA seems to have a chip on their shoulder with diesels for some reason.
 

da_jokker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2009 Jetta
They don't because it's not about the environment. Its about them lying and deceiving. Don't get me wrong I know what they're claiming it's about but if that were true simply paying money wouldn't fix the issue.
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
I've actually been going through those numbers right now. I also didn't realize the mileage deduction was based on months from Sept 2015 so when I move closer to work and drive say 150 miles per week instead of 550 like I do now, I'm getting money back every month I hold onto the car. Plus any car I'm interested in will cost more than the TDI and the monthly payment will go up so it does actually make sense to hold onto the TDI at least until I'm settled in my next home.
Wait, so the deduction in mileage is NOT for the total mileage of the car but the mileage since September 2015?
 

jhawklver

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Location
Kansas City
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI
Wait, so the deduction in mileage is NOT for the total mileage of the car but the mileage since September 2015?
It's for total mileage overall... but the formula incorporate a formula that contains the current mileage.

Current mileage minus a formula incorporating months since Sept 2015 and amount above or below 1042 average per month.
 

kapps

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Location
Orlando
TDI
2014 Golf 6MT
Wait, so the deduction in mileage is NOT for the total mileage of the car but the mileage since September 2015?
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/att._2a_-_golf_mileage_table.pdf

Read through the instructions up top. They assume a standard 1042 miles per month as a baseline. The compensation is based on your total mileage but also the number of months after Sept 2015 you turn in the car. If you can drive less and hold onto the car longer, your average mileage per month gets lower which means they pay you a little more. We're talking $300 every 5000 miles so it's not like there's a huge draw to do this especially if you're still paying on the car.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top