Dieselgate: Volkswagen to Spend Up to $14.7 Billion to Settle ...

[tdiDreaming]

Ok, I THINK I got caught up on most of this thread. It seems like the majority of folks are focused (rightfully so) on the Buyback side given that people are likely to want nothing to do with their car when this is all said and done.

HOWEVER, for those of us that are interested in a fix I just have a couple of thoughts:

-I'm guessing that VW is banking on the "fix" to cost less than the difference between the current 'incentives' for the buyback vs the fix because otherwise why would they even offer it? For simple software fixes this might be realistic, but anything beyond that - it kind of seems iffy.
-Same goes for the supposed warranty they are going to offer with the "fix", which appears to cover a significant portion of the exhaust and engine components. If the fix is not great or implemented properly, they will get hit hard on repair/warranty work because I would seriously hope that the dealerships are not going to stick their necks out for VW after they have lost out big. Not to mention, the parts that they are covering could have naturally gone out (nothing to do with the fix) but seem to still be covered!? So I wonder if A.) VW really thinks they have solid proposals to get the cars fixed or B.) they will drag the fixes out as long as possible to string along the financial costs and then force the holdouts into a buyout later.
-If I ever DO see a fix (assuming I go that way, willingly or not), is the amount they are offering me to get the car fixed + compensation + warranty supposed to just be restitution for their initial screwup? Or is this also supposed to compensate me for the likely diminished car performance, possible decrease in fuel economy, and reliability concerns? My guess is they expect the one payment to cover it all, and that seems kinda crappy.

 

[seth1065]

Ok have a question that I have not seen here, my 11 JSW is right around 126,000 so my timing belt is gonna be due in about a month, my guess is around $1,000 for the job to be done at a indie. Will VW pay me extra for a new TB if i decide to trade it in, I am already taking a hit for having a high mileage car ( If i did the math right around 3300 minus) I would not want to push the TB job to much as if it breaks I have a very expensive lawn art piece, I think my payout price all is is around 17,000 after the mileage hit ( 11 w DSG and Pano in eastern state if anyone wants to check my math feel free ) I drive a lot and lately have been using my summer convertible while my daughter has my TDI at school as her car died, so my mileage would have been higher. Do the TB and eat the $1,000 ? any chance VW would compensate me like a ins company would?? Thanks for the help. I am on the fence with keeping the car and having no payment or seeing if VW will give me a great deal on another car gas based or one of the 16's TDI gathering dust on a lot somewhere

 

[da_jokker]

After the buyback I will be $8,696.30 in the hole.

Why? Because I purchased CPO (more expensive than used), purchased an extended warranty and drive about 18,000 a year.

I'll be able to get back a prorated amount for the extended warranty.

I'll have about $4,600 left after the loan is paid off. The tax was approx $3,000 and the down payment I can't remember but lets say it's the remaining $1,600.

I've made $8,696.30 in payments and drove it for 30,000 miles in about 2 years. I walk away with nothing but a nearly $9K hole in my wallet and will be about another $5K or so if I choose to replace the car with another used vehicle (tax and down payment again).

How am I not being scr@wed? Was planning on keeping this long term (my other diesel has 266,000 and is still driven).

Someone want to tell my how this makes me "whole" again?

Not sure, but maybe you would qualify under the 130% rule? If not, you may be one of those outside situations where you will have to decide for yourself if it is worth opting out and pursuing your own legal action or not.

You could also just keep the car... drive it until the last possible moment and at least get some of your money's worth out of it.

 

[ecupip]

All buy backers! Another way to cash in is to start parting out your cars before the buy back. Take off any and everything that is not required for it to run under its own power. MUAHAHAHA

How much does a hood go for with a small dent in it?

 

[smithey]

Owners of 2015s may want to run the math on driving for two years.

If my 2015 has 90K miles on it in 2 years from now, and I do the buyback then I stand to get 28K ish back from VW. It would cost me about 1500.00 a year to own the car, as my loan is 0.9%. At the end of 3 years of ownership, do buyback take cash to use as down on another car.

Interesting scenario. The buyback 'now' isnt enough. EPA obviously doesnt want them off the road if its a better deal for me to drive 3 years.

Yes, it dawned on me last night that I could keep making payments on my 15 GSW until near the end, keep driving, and then basically get nearly all of that payment money back in buyout cash. I'd really only lose the interest on the loan (very low).

 

[jsm172]

What kind of lawyer do I need to contact to start a claims process

After reading that if I total the car between now and the fix that I wont be eligible for the buyback. That on top of I think the buyback is unfair for me. What kind of attorney should I contact? Insurance attorney?

 

[POBOX2897]

NPR had a piece on the proposed settlement this morning. They spoke to a few owners and every one of them was happy with the offer.

Really? The guy I heard from Massachusetts didn't seem to be.

 

[da_jokker]

Sorry, but your analogy is not correct. A better one would be if Rolex sold you a watch that the manufacturer made of lead rather than a precious metal. Since it is illegal to make a product out of lead without warning the consumer, by law Rolex must replace the watch, or give you your money back in full, and probably pay a big fine to the government. This settlement is VW getting off easy.

I don't totally agree.. you are assuming that Rolex actually can make a watch using precious metals. (yes I know THEY can but that is not the point).

If VW actually MADE a TDI that was compliant, one could argue that point.. but they don't (as of today)

 

[jen_madcity]

Sadly we can't all do that. Time to drive extra carefully.

True. Not everyone has that option. I just wanted to make sure people have the full picture. I'm back to the 2005 Volvo V70. ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Why no premium for technology aka tech package on a 2013 Golf tdi? This was around 2k extra at the time compared to non tech vehicles. There should be an addition for this package as there is for sunroof, premium sound, etc.

... and no consideration for condition.

... Doggie clunkers get the same as clean

 

[Claudio]

has any of you read this?

http://jalopnik.com/heres-exactly-how-much-volkswagen-will-pay-you-for-your-1782745097

According to them, it seems that the buyback number on column 1 is not the final number, but after the mileage depreciation you still need to add the difference between 5,100 and the number you came up on column 2 after the depreciation

 

[fan of fanboys]

So I must be one of the few owners that feel fully compensated:
2014 JSW fully loaded (bought in March 2015 new)
Region: Eastern
Current mileage:13,000
Buy-back value: $27,587
Options:
Power seat $360
Alloy Wheels $480 (What does "Value only" mean?)
Power Sunroof $690
Navigation $750
Total $29,867
Adjusted miles under 5,000 (I drive about 10,000 miles per year)
Mileage adjustment: $2,460
Total $32,327
It's way more than I paid for this car, so that means I drove it for a year and a half for free, and could get into a comparably equipped brand new GSW gasser with no out-of-pocket cost. Seems too good to be true...
I should probably continue driving it for a bit longer. I'm thinking of doing the buyback in spring-summer 2017. For reasons totally unrelated to Dieselgate, if I get a new car in 2017, title must be in my name no later than October 2017.

I am sure you realize this but you have to subtract your payoff from that $32,327 and that is what you are left with

factor in your trade that you did for this car/down payment/etc when looking at how much you actually pocket

 

[NM_TDIPassat]

Finally!

Cash Payments:
Class members will also receive cash payments in addition to the Buyback value or approved modification. The amount is the same whether one participates in the Buyback or modification program. The settlement agreement includes a formula for how this cash payment is determined. For example, most owners who purchased a 2.0-liter vehicle before September 18, 2015 will be eligible for a payment ranging from $5,100 to approximately $10,000 per vehicle. This cash is to be paid on top of the September 2015 Clean Trade-in value for class members participating in the Buyback Program. Benefits to class members cannot be reduced by attorneys’ fees. Fees and costs must be paid in addition by Volkswagen as approved by the Court.
Class members can visit www.VWCourtSettlement.com to learn if they have an eligible vehicle. If the Court grants preliminary approval on July 26, this site will then include a secure settlement look-up tool where consumers can enter their vehicle’s VIN number to learn their compensation amount. When and if the Court grants final approval, the claims process will open to eligible Volkswagen and Audi 2.0 liter owners and lessees without delays on appeal. Additional information, including the executive summary of the settlement, a summary chart of settlement benefits, and the actual settlement documents can also be found on the Court’s website: http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/crb/vwmdl.

* * *​

Exactly right, as I understand it. Step one: All owners will get a cash payment from VW to compensate them for the VW fraud. The formula to calculate your amount is in the docs. This is compensatory payment and is NOT included in the base value calculation. Step 2: You then will have the choice of either (a) selling your car back to VW at the adjusted buy-back value in the table or (b) keeping the car and having the the fix done for which you will receive extra cash compensation listed in the table and the extra warranty or (c) doing neither, taking no cash and doing no fix and keeping your car just as it is. In the event that you purchased your TDI in the period between Sept 2015 and June 28. 2016,
you will have to split the compensatory payment 50/50 with the seller. These terms of settlement are very generous and no one will be worse off or upside down on this settlement. It is a shame it was not better explained in the documents.

 

[anotherTDI]

Isn't it nice of VW to want to purchase our cars at wholesale/trade in value so they can turn around retail them again. I feel like I'm reading one of those BS sales flyers from the local dealerships.......WE NEED YOUR CAR. You drive by a lot and low and behold there is your old car with a price tag $3k more than what they paid you. VW is really making owners involved in this thing feel whole again <sarcasm emoticon here>.

I really feel sorry for the owners of the older VWs that are in great shape. You worked hard, took care of the your car, paid it off and are now enjoying the fruits of your labor. Now, BAM you're stating over again.

VW had several choices on purchasing these cars back to make people whole again......wholesale/trade in value, retail/private sale value, or actual purchase price. Shame on VW for sticking it to their customers.

 

[VonShannon]

Tech package for 2013 golf hb tdi included Xenon headlights with LED accents, Dynaudio premium sound system and keyless entry with push-button ignition.

Not sure why. But that package was what, the upgraded head unit and bluetooth module? Find someone with a similar gas powered Golf without the package, who's willing to pay you to swap them before you return it. You can get a few bucks that way, I'd imagine.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Not sure, but maybe you would qualify under the 130% rule? If not, you may be one of those outside situations where you will have to decide for yourself if it is worth opting out and pursuing your own legal action or not.
You could also just keep the car... drive it until the last possible moment and at least get some of your money's worth out of it.

What is the 130% rule?

 

[wmichaelis]

Ok have a question that I have not seen here, my 11 JSW is right around 126,000 so my timing belt is gonna be due in about a month, my guess is around $1,000 for the job to be done at a indie. Will VW pay me extra for a new TB if i decide to trade it in, I am already taking a hit for having a high mileage car ( If i did the math right around 3300 minus) I would not want to push the TB job to much as if it breaks I have a very expensive lawn art piece, I think my payout price all is is around 17,000 after the mileage hit ( 11 w DSG and Pano in eastern state if anyone wants to check my math feel free ) I drive a lot and lately have been using my summer convertible while my daughter has my TDI at school as her car died, so my mileage would have been higher. Do the TB and eat the $1,000 ? any chance VW would compensate me like a ins company would?? Thanks for the help. I am on the fence with keeping the car and having no payment or seeing if VW will give me a great deal on another car gas based or one of the 16's TDI gathering dust on a lot somewhere

I would imagine VW isn't going to pay you for a new timing belt...but a dealer offering an incentive might. If you're definitely going to sell it back, you might be better off putting it off a while and keeping the mileage under 1,042 a month, to lower the mileage hit you're taking. If you drive it longer, it may ultimately "pay" for the timing belt by lowering the mileage hit over time.

Or, drive it until the belt goes, and sell it back right then, and let the repair be on them. Just because it's "due" to be replaced doesn't mean you have to do it. There could be warranty implications there, though, if you're under one.

 

[redbarron55]

Fair market value id the price exchanged between a willing seller and a willing buyer.
This is not fair market value.
I was not in the market to sell my cars.
VW wants to settle at the lowest possible cost.
There are a lot of factors here, not in the least the VW payout for the cars not off the road at the end.
$100,000,000 per 4000 cars.
Not per 2009 with 250,000 miles factored in.
My low valued car will cost the the same $25,000 as the best car out there.
The fine per car SHOULD be $37,500 per car not fixed or bought back.
VW is getting off light if this is accepted.

 

[da_jokker]

So reading that article http://jalopnik.com/heres-exactly-how-much-volkswagen-will-pay-you-for-your-1782745097

Not really anything new, however some interesting things.

While the settlement includes complex calculations across more than 200 pages of legal documents, the website for the U.S. District Court’s Northern District of California helpfully includes tables that show compensation ranges for each of the affected cars. Owners and lessees can also look up their vehicles on Volkswagen’s court settlement website.

If that is true...then it was the COURT that confused the hell out of everything and not VW. They are the ones that decided to "Combine"

Note that the tables are based on the “clean trade value” specified by NADA in the September 2015 NADA Used Car Guide. The restitution amounts in the far right column are determined by taking 20 percent of the vehicles’s NADA value, then adding $2,986.73 to it.

so the way one interpretation may be is that the 20% is the artificial deprecation adjustment and the 2,986 is the "Generous compensation" ???

The buyback column is essentially just the September 2015 (that’s when the Dieselgate story broke) NADA value plus the payout number in the “modification” column.

So are you non-believers finally convinced... it is BUILT INTO that number even though you keep reading value + compensation.

 

[MNVWMAN]

has any of you read this?

http://jalopnik.com/heres-exactly-how-much-volkswagen-will-pay-you-for-your-1782745097

According to them, it seems that the buyback number on column 1 is not the final number, but after the mileage depreciation you still need to add the difference between 5,100 and the number you came up on column 2 after the depreciation

Reread:

"The buyback column is essentially just the September 2015 (that’s when the Dieselgate story broke) NADA value plus the payout number in the “modification” column."

 

[Izz]

I am sure you realize this but you have to subtract your payoff from that $32,327 and that is what you are left with
factor in your trade that you did for this car/down payment/etc when looking at how much you actually pocket

I didn't finance it. And I got a decent amount on my trade-in.

 

[fan of fanboys]

has any of you read this?

http://jalopnik.com/heres-exactly-how-much-volkswagen-will-pay-you-for-your-1782745097

According to them, it seems that the buyback number on column 1 is not the final number, but after the mileage depreciation you still need to add the difference between 5,100 and the number you came up on column 2 after the depreciation

if and only if the number in column two is less than $5,100. which for most f us it is not

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Ok, I THINK I got caught up on most of this thread. It seems like the majority of folks are focused (rightfully so) on the Buyback side given that people are likely to want nothing to do with their car when this is all said and done.

HOWEVER, for those of us that are interested in a fix I just have a couple of thoughts:

-I'm guessing that VW is banking on the "fix" to cost less than the difference between the current 'incentives' for the buyback vs the fix because otherwise why would they even offer it? For simple software fixes this might be realistic, but anything beyond that - it kind of seems iffy.
-Same goes for the supposed warranty they are going to offer with the "fix", which appears to cover a significant portion of the exhaust and engine components. If the fix is not great or implemented properly, they will get hit hard on repair/warranty work because I would seriously hope that the dealerships are not going to stick their necks out for VW after they have lost out big. Not to mention, the parts that they are covering could have naturally gone out (nothing to do with the fix) but seem to still be covered!? So I wonder if A.) VW really thinks they have solid proposals to get the cars fixed or B.) they will drag the fixes out as long as possible to string along the financial costs and then force the holdouts into a buyout later.
-If I ever DO see a fix (assuming I go that way, willingly or not), is the amount they are offering me to get the car fixed + compensation + warranty supposed to just be restitution for their initial screwup? Or is this also supposed to compensate me for the likely diminished car performance, possible decrease in fuel economy, and reliability concerns? My guess is they expect the one payment to cover it all, and that seems kinda crappy.

What warranty

 

[wmichaelis]

Exactly right, as I understand it. Step one: All owners will get a cash payment from VW to compensate them for the VW fraud. The formula to calculate your amount is in the docs. This is compensatory payment and is NOT included in the base value calculation. Step 2: You then will have the choice of either (a) selling your car back to VW at the adjusted buy-back value in the table or (b) keeping the car and having the the fix done for which you will receive extra cash compensation listed in the table and the extra warranty or (c) doing neither, taking no cash and doing no fix and keeping your car just as it is. In the event that you purchased your TDI in the period between Sept 2015 and June 28. 2016,
you will have to split the compensatory payment 50/50 with the seller. These terms of settlement are very generous and no one will be worse off or upside down on this settlement. It is a shame it was not better explained in the documents.

You are right - the compensation is NOT included in the base value calculation. The spreadsheet has BUYBACK values in it, though - not base values. Base value currently seems to be defined as whatever the National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA) declared as fair trade value in September 2015.

 

[fan of fanboys]

I didn't finance it. And I got a decent amount on my trade-in.

so that is a factor then

you are not truly getting $32K because you came out of pocket for cost of car and your trade is was out of pocket cost/value for you as well

subtract your trade in value from that $32K bc it was an extra cost for you

 

[gcodori]

You're in the vortex. No underwater loan forgiveness, ~2 years old, >avg miles @18k/yr, "fixable (2014?)", high transactional costs (sales/excise?). All that I get, and agree with the inequity of it. But what do you think the value of using the car for two years should have cost you? Are you looking for every dollar back, on a 2 y/o car?

If I were leasing the car I'd be fine with not having anything after making payments. That's what leasing is.

I purchased the car. So after paying $X dollars over X amount of time I would have a car with x number of miles on it. I'd get what I paid for.

What I have now is that I basically paid $460 a month to rent my passat, paid insurance on it, paid the maintenance on it and at the end I give it back with $9,000 less in my bank account not counting insurance, etc.

Still sound like a good deal to you? You wouldn't rent a car for 2 years would you? It wouldn't make financial sense would it?

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

Do we have the option to keep the car and not get the fix after early 2018? Do they have stipulations in place that will force you to either sell it back or get it fixed ( naybe not being bale to register it)? I would imagine something is in the deal that would require all owners to do one or the other since VW would be fined for vehicles not fixed or bought back. Someone educate me

If your state continues to allow you to register it, you can drive it until the wheels fall off, if that is your choice.

 

[Philpug]

Those who are unhappy have unrealistic expectations as to what their car is worth. The net amount being received is reasonable. I think people initially thought there would be a huge payday and are out of touch with reality. Greed

Bottom line is owners have not been substantially affected other than the diminished value of the car. The settlement makes them whole. Bottom line, I think VW did a great job.

Please explain the drop from 2011 to 2010 JSW's?

• 2009 13,997
• 2010 15,467
  [*]2011 19,157
• 2012 20,837
• 2013 24,317
• 2014 27,647
• 2015 25,771

 

[da_jokker]

not sure who this is directed out but almost every person would be happy with retail or even excellent private party value for car you know since they used the words retail. it is the trade in value (and to lesser extent the mileage) that people have issue with
you are not proposing anything that has not been said 100s of times

I was pointing out two things... some people think "whole" means that they should be left with another car that gets the same mileage, that they like just as much, and that leaves them in the same situation (payment, no payment, etc) ..... making sure you get an equivalent replacement vehicle is not what the law is going to do for you.


As for mileage.. that was my part. I don't understand why people are stating there should be NO DEDUCTIONS FOR MILEAGE. If you were selling to a Private party, you'd be crazy to think that mileage doesn't come into play.

read back... there are still people claiming they can drive the doors off their cars and it will be like driving for free... or they are complaining that they should be able to drive the doors off with no impact on the value.


the one thing I have not see a single person disagree with in over 1000 post is that they do not think Retail would be worse or more unfair than the current offer of trade-in.

 

[Claudio]

if and only if the number in column two is less than $5,100. which for most f us it is not

yes.

for me it starts already below that (09 JSW), then it goes down to 4,122 for mileage depreciation - i have currently almost 178K miles on it).