Dieselgate: Volkswagen to Spend Up to $14.7 Billion to Settle ...

[da_jokker]

The Attorney communication clearly states in bold and underlined, compensation 'In Addition To' the trade or modification values.
I'm not an attorney - but that language is straight forward.

You are right... just like everyone that has pointed out that the actually papers state Value + Compensation.

What people are not realizing is that the actual cheat sheet charts are not part of that agreement. What they are is a cheat sheet to determine the final value and whomever created those spreadsheets decided to build the value in. (Most likely to hide the fact that they are giving you Trade-In as a base.


If the spreadsheets were created to literarily mirror the text (for people that don't understand what the word Combined means) they should have listed column 1 as 2 parts ... A = your Trade in value base + B = Your Compensation value.

Had they done that, we'd only be at 400 post now

 

[Keith63]

I bought the TDI to drive and for the gas mileage, I have driven it on average 30,000 miles per year and for doing so, I am getting punished by the VW mileage scale.

So what if I keep the TDI and want to trade it in five years from now without it being fixed, could I?

 

[da_jokker]

Where did you get that idea from? VW can make back some of their money by fixing cars that were bought back, and then reselling them - if they have a method of fixing them, why wouldn't they?
If they buy back a 2010 Jetta for $14,027 (assuming 77K miles, so no adjustment), it costs them $2k to fix it (wild guess, completely made up), and they sell it "Certified Preowned" to someone for $10,000 - they're now out a little over $6k on the car, as opposed to $14k. Not to mention that they might be able to sell these cars as-is, unfixed, in other markets (not ethical, but hey, when has that ever stopped any other large corporation?)
I think, to be honest, there will still be a market for these cars after they're fixed. Many of us TDI owners bought them because we specifically wanted a diesel car. There really aren't a lot of options in that market here in the US, so thinking they're all straight off to the crusher might not be correct.
Also, I'm not much of a mechanic, but does there exist the possibility that the engine/tank/exhaust can be pulled, and replaced with gasoline counterparts? Or even hybrids? If that can be done for less than the cost of building a brand new one, and the car can be sold for more than that cost, there's no reason to believe VW couldn't do just that.
Scrapping the cars outright is going to be an additional cost, whereas repair/refit potentially will reap some monetary reward. I think there's life left in them yet.

pretty sure the courts are NOT allowing them to sell them back for anything. Not sure if it is so they can not recoup money or so they cannot continue to pollute but just in another country... but regardless... .they have to scrap them, or fix them.

 

[autdi]

Everyone keeps talking about driving the full 2 years and waiting until last minute to do buyback. Looks like VW intends to complete all buy backs within 90 days of approval.

I haven't seen anything that I recall that say if we have to declare our intent through the online form by a certain date or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was a deadline.

Now, if you declare you want the fix, and they ultimately can't get a remediation plan approved, you'd certainly then get the buy back at that point, however far in the future.

ben

Deadline to file to get a buyback is 9/1/2018

 

[redbarron55]

Really? I appreciate your constructive help. Not needed at all.

Sorry, not meaning to TICK you off, but being constructive as in if the car is off the road and they didn't have to handle it that should be worth something.

 

[jims2321]

Here is some pricing information found on cars.com that shows the values around Sept 2015 (Jetta and Passat)

https://www.cars.com/articles/vws-used-car-prices-down-in-wake-of-diesel-crisis-1420681307568/

Based upon CARS.Com or even KBB valuation for 2013 TDI average resell price, using the compensation calculation in the court documents
of 20% of the price + 2986.73. You can see there is a almost a 10% difference before factoring mileage.

Cars.com KBB (buybackmytdi.com)

ARP 17924 17155
CC (20%
+2986,73) 6571.53 6417.73

Adjustments
6sp MT -860 -860

Total 23635.53 22712.73
Offered
w/adj 20817 20817

Difference
(loss) 2818.53 1895.73

So yeah, this case had they use KBB/Cars.com average resell price, which I think is reasonable, its a 8% or greater difference in the numbers.

 

[Ares]

Everyone keeps talking about driving the full 2 years and waiting until last minute to do buyback. Looks like VW intends to complete all buy backs within 90 days of approval.
I haven't seen anything that I recall that say if we have to declare our intent through the online form by a certain date or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was a deadline.
Now, if you declare you want the fix, and they ultimately can't get a remediation plan approved, you'd certainly then get the buy back at that point, however far in the future.
ben

When do I need to decide between a Buyback or an Approved Emissions Modification?


You do not need to decide between a Buyback or an Approved Emissions Modification until you are notified whether an Approved Emissions Modification is available for your car. Until then, you can drive your car. If you do not want to wait until an Approved Emissions Modification becomes available, you can choose the Buyback any time after the Court approves the Class Action Settlement, provided that you submit a complete and valid claim by no later than September 1, 2018.

When will the proposed emissions modifications be approved?

The EPA and CARB will use their best efforts to approve or disapprove any proposal within 45 days of submission of the proposal.

GEN1 - Submittal 10/11/2016, Final 1/27/2017
GEN2 - Submittal 12/16/2016, Final 3/3/2017

So most owners have 9-12 months, if there are no delays. I expect VW to take as long as they can, and the EPA to move slowly.

 

[faultymechanics]

My worry is they negate the "guaranteed retail return" by saying the added 5100-10k or w.e the bonus cash was made up the difference, plus more.

I can almost guarantee they will say that. If I was a scumbag like VW I would.

 

[TornadoTDI2010]

This is from the DOJ settlement:

4.1 Buyback Recall: Beginning no later than fifteen (15) Days after the Effective Date of the Consent Decree, Settling Defendants shall offer, and if accepted provide, each Eligible Owner of an Eligible Vehicle the Buyback, as defined in Paragraph 2.4, of the Eligible Vehicle at no less than the Retail Replacement Value. For purposes of the Buyback, the consumer payments required by the FTC Order and the Class Action Settlement are equal to or in excess of the Retail Replacement Value, and Settling Defendants’ offer of buybacks and fulfilment of their buyback obligations under the FTC Order and Class Action Settlement satisfies the requirements of this Paragraph 4.1. Settling Defendants agree and acknowledge that their obligations under this EPA/CARB Consent Decree are independent of the FTC Order and Class Action Settlement. Thus, if for any reason the Settling Defendants do not perform their buyback obligations under the FTC Order and Class Action Settlement, or if the Court does not enter those agreements, Settling Defendants must still offer and provide the Buyback as required by this Paragraph.

Wow, that's a load of crap. Trade in value + compensation is NOT the same thing as retail value. (Thanks for finding this and posting it!)

 

[jsm172]

Many folks are delighted by this settlement...newer cars and the very old ones.
However, there are penalties for those of us stuck in the middle....and those of us who bought the TDIs to drive. For every mile we drive now, we are being penalized, in addition to the expected costs of every mile.
Doing the math last night on our 2012 Passat with 100,300 miles currently the buyback works out to $17297..minus the $3500 still owed on the car. We have spent right at $30K...with down payment, sales tax, and 51 monthly payments. This figure does not include 2 $600 DSG services or other maintenance. The car is perfect inside and out...and I would NEVER accept 'trade in' value at a dealer.
Every mile we drive (and we drive a lot) now costs fuel, maintenance, tires...and now, reduced warranty on the 'fix' and reduced buyback value. I can't anticipate my final mileage values, because they don't know when the fix will be ready.
Just when our car gets into the 'sweet spot' of the depreciation curve, after the dramatic drop in the 1st 3 years, if we choose the 'buyback' we then must go back into the new car depreciation curve, and lose even more...or settle with a similar used car, that who knows how the previous owner treated it.
Our best bet is to just continue on and forget all of this happened for as long as we can, or until the States decide not to allow registration.
My plan has always been, get the fix, take whatever cash is available, and assuming the 'fix' for the AdBlue TDI's is simply software....to buy a tune and get the performance back. Our state, NV, has diesel smog testing...but they only look for black smoke.
We should all make sure we make our 'public comments' regarding this. I blame the EPA more than anyone else. Did they even consider that removing 500,000 cars from the road will require 500,000 more to be produced....and that the environmental damage caused by that production is equal to the lifetime of actually driving the car?

These are my thoughts exactly. I have a 2013 with around 70k and the buyback is not attractive at all. I bought this car to drive forever not to trade in and get another car. There is not really a comparable car on the market either (maybe the mazda 6 or honda accord), but even then they do not get as good of mpg's as my tdi. Plus I would have to pay another 4k or so. So I am losing 4 or 5k in the "deal". yeah I would be getting a new car but it would be a car I did not choose in the first place.

 

[Big Poppa Pump]

same boat here... mine is due in about 2.5K miles.. i am planning on using the VW dealership goodwill card for it with the fuel filter change as well ...

So much for the extended warranty that I bought. I never get those things but I was sweating possible HPFP and DSG problems down the road.

Save​

 

[wmichaelis]

Ya, we know why you joined. "Oh we are just so blessed by the hand of VWOA, everyone is so pleased. Right guys?" (in a taunting voice)

Tell your bosses we aren't happy. You could do a better job of at least making a believable profile, with believable story on "your TDI".

I bet this is your first job out of your liberal arts college trying to get your hand into a marketing job. Saw this ad posted on craigslist. Thought you'd give it a go. You're awfully sketchy dude.

I'll happily take that bet. You really do like throwing money away, don't you?

I'm a systems engineer for a fintech company, so my bosses really couldn't give a single **** whether or not you're happy. Tell me what proof you want that I'm not in any way, shape, or form connected to VW, and I'll happily provide it.

I'm sketchy because I'm not here demanding they pay me more than full purchase price (including tax and tags) for a car I've happily driven for a year? Okay.

 

[wmichaelis]

pretty sure the courts are NOT allowing them to sell them back for anything. Not sure if it is so they can not recoup money or so they cannot continue to pollute but just in another country... but regardless... .they have to scrap them, or fix them.

I haven't read that myself - do you have any kind of link?

Even if that is true...fixing a car and selling it could still end up being cheaper than just paying to take it back and destroy it.

US courts would have zero jurisdiction if they make VW buy back the cars, and VW turns around and sells them unmodified in China. It would be a very, very risky thing for VW to do, and unethical as can be, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear 10 years from now something like that happened, at some scale or other.

 

[coolbreeze]

Sorry, not meaning to TICK you off, but being constructive as in if the car is off the road and they didn't have to handle it that should be worth something.

My bad. I thought you where messing with me.

 

[Claudio]

i also don't agree why some options are added to the buyback price, and some others are not considered.

For example, i have 17" VW alloy wheels that costed me an extra $490, why those are not refunded but the navigation is?

 

[MNVWMAN]

You are right... just like everyone that has pointed out that the actually papers state Value + Compensation.
What people are not realizing is that the actual cheat sheet charts are not part of that agreement. What they are is a cheat sheet to determine the final value and whomever created those spreadsheets decided to build the value in. (Most likely to hide the fact that they are giving you Trade-In as a base.
If the spreadsheets were created to literarily mirror the text (for people that don't understand what the word Combined means) they should have listed column 1 as 2 parts ... A = your Trade in value base + B = Your Compensation value.
Had they done that, we'd only be at 400 post now

My thoughts, exactly!

 

[rico227]

So are we all going to keep up with our maintenance as scheduled until buybacks happen?

 

[Mike91326]

I heard on the radio this morning that California and CARB will get 25% of the penalty money. The head of CARB indicated that they are looking into using some of that money as incentives and rebates for California TDI owners who sell their car back and buy an electric car or plug-in hybrid.

 

[swampyankee]

Until government refuses to register your vehicle, then you're SOL. Not really a choice.

Govt can't do that. VW will pay a fine if the car is not touched

 

[Philpug]

The press is acting like this is written in stone..this is VW's proposal..Breyer still needs to approve it..how and where to we submit our concerns?

 

[swampyankee]

The $5100+ is meant to be compensation for their lying and cheating, take that out of the equation for the car completely. It is not related to the car buyback, imo.

What is left, is trade-in value adjusted for mileage. What was "promised" is fair market value for the car pre-scandal.

We are not being given what was promised, it's that simple.

I am not looking for a "payday" here; I just want to be fairly compensated so I can move to a different car without additional cost to me. I did nothing wrong, I should not have to pay more money for a different car I had no intention of buying until VW screwed up.

When was the $5,100 promised?

 

[pknopp]

Tin foil hat wearing or not I'm not a conspiracy nut but I noticed that myself a lot of the newbies that joined in JUNE are happy happy happy with the numbers. Very odd!

Oh and I also noticed there the people that are checking everyone math and auguring it a good deal!

I'm not new but I'm O.K. with it. I have a few complaints. It should be retail book not average trade. We shouldn't continue to get hit with miles either.

I also will admit that the timing works out well for me. I need a truck. I had the use of one the last few years but no longer. I could buy a cheap one but I got rid of my last one because It took up space.

So I look and see 2012 TDI wagons for sale at $14,000 with half the miles mine has. Yes, the whole mess has hurt resale so normally it would be a bit higher. I'm going to get appx 20K for my JSW with 75,000 miles. Even without the whole mess I would never be able to come close to that.

Should VW get hit harder? There is a valid argument for that. Will I come out to the positive? Yes.

 

[Jibeho]

Anyone look and the buyback explanation on this site?




http://jalopnik.com/heres-exactly-how-much-volkswagen-will-pay-you-for-your-1782745097

 

[unseenthings]

I'm not sure why they lump rebuilt in with salvage or junk. I hope this just means they don't want to pay people who went and got totaled cars after the scandal broke and put them back on the road. Although I see nothing wrong with that either. The whole point of a rebuilt title process is to certified that a car is no longer salvage or junk. My car was rebuilt 3 years ago and has had 50k added since then. I better not be excluded.

 

[da_jokker]

Sorry but I think many of you may be looking at this wrong. The Law is not to make us rich. It is to make us "whole"... the question is what is considered "whole"

If you go out and buy a rolex to find out that price really was too good to be true and it's a knock off... you do NOT get a real rolex in it's place. You get your money back.

For those that are complaining about mileage. Sure I hope you are right, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

The best we could hope for is what we would get at "RETAIL" if we sold the car. Sure, many were not planning on selling, but it is what it is. If you were to sell the car, your mileage AND condition would come into play.

If VW were to change their base from Trade-In to Retail and then deducted the mileage AT THE TIME you sold it back to them (just as if they were a Private party)... it's as good as it would get for a huge class action.

If YOU have a particular situation that where you come out as unfair, your DO HAVE other options.... gamble and take the fix, or opt out of the class action and hire a lawyer.


All I'm saying is that at the point you "choose" to sell, it's Retail Value (adjusted for the artificial deflation) - Mileage.

It's the artificial defilation adjustment that the law is using to make you whole.. the rest is real world **** like any other day.

 

[DubFamily]

When was the $5,100 promised?

Judge Breyer promised "substantial compensation" above and beyond the buyback.

What is detailed here is not "substantial" and can barely even be called "compensation"...

U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer in San Francisco said Thursday that the plan proposed by Volkswagen and regulators would include Volkswagen buying back the cars, canceling leases or fixing the cars to meet emissions standards.

There also would be “substantial compensation” for the car owners, Breyer said at a hearing.

 

[faultymechanics]

As a super slighted 2015 owner I would be very happy with just the trade value flipped for retail.

The mileage depreciation is rough, especially when I'm still making payments thru October and driving the car 70 miles a day. It's going to hit me hard, but I can live without it.

Ideally we should fight for both equally politely. The judge isn't going to throw out the idea of retail offer justb ecause we asked for them to remove the mileage deduction. These are two totally separate things in terms of why we are upset.

One is because we were promised retail in legal documents and the other is personal dissatisfaction we have to lose money for using the car as intended. They could at least double the 1042 mile number, that'd be more realistic for VW Diesels, maybe not gas cars, but for people like us, we drive.

 

[autdi]

I'm not sure why they lump rebuilt in with salvage or junk. I hope this just means they don't want to pay people who went and got totaled cars after the scandal broke and put them back on the road. Although I see nothing wrong with that either. The whole point of a rebuilt title process is to certified that a car is no longer salvage or junk. My car was rebuilt 3 years ago and has had 50k added since then. I better not be excluded.

The way the operable definition reads, it appears the car had to be branded and sitting in a junk/salvage yard on 9/18/15, then subsequently bought from the yard.

 

[gcodori]

After the buyback I will be $8,696.30 in the hole.

Why? Because I purchased CPO (more expensive than used), purchased an extended warranty and drive about 18,000 a year.

I'll be able to get back a prorated amount for the extended warranty.

I'll have about $4,600 left after the loan is paid off. The tax was approx $3,000 and the down payment I can't remember but lets say it's the remaining $1,600.

I've made $8,696.30 in payments and drove it for 30,000 miles in about 2 years. I walk away with nothing but a nearly $9K hole in my wallet and will be about another $5K or so if I choose to replace the car with another used vehicle (tax and down payment again).

How am I not being scr@wed? Was planning on keeping this long term (my other diesel has 266,000 and is still driven).

Someone want to tell my how this makes me "whole" again?

 

[MNVWMAN]

Anyone look and the buyback explanation on this site?


http://jalopnik.com/heres-exactly-how-much-volkswagen-will-pay-you-for-your-1782745097

Yes, good explanation of calculation on that site!