Dieselgate: Volkswagen to Spend Up to $14.7 Billion to Settle ...

[Jeta Life]

I thought this was always the case when law enforcement, celebrities, and politicians broke the law.

Great to have our very own celebrity PK back ! Nice to see Max the Black Shepherd !

 

[JD_TDI]

We would like to that as well - but not with this "deal", and I am convinced when folks look carefully at their numbers they may find this is not a deal at all. Running some numbers in case on a 2013 4dr Golf:
Purchase numbers:
$27,330 original MSRP with delivery and monster mats:
$24,431 negotiated price paid plus
$ 699 dealer fees
$ 1,424 sales tax
$ 2,011 7/70 extended warranty
$28,565 Total paid
Settlement Offer:
$22,157 "Buy-back" but really based on trade-in value
$ 180 mileage adjustment
$22,337 total "buyback" figure
We're already still out almost $6,200 and will have to pay sales tax, fees, etc.. on a replacement vehicle much earlier than anticipated and will not get to use a dealer sold extended warranty at all.
We're also due for the $750 40K service which I am contemplating cancelling as the 30K was done late (33k) and total mileage on October 1, 2016 should still be under 45k -- advice anyone on this point?

I don't see how this is a deal at all.
We need to concisely get these points across to the court during comment time. Basically, the "negotiators" of this "great" deal were only interested in how much the gov was going to get out of this.

This makes my point as well in regards to pay TT&L again and not being compensated for it in the initial offer. I wasn't looking to sell my car at this point and time so why should I be out that money twice??

Some might argue to take the fix, but I don't believe the fix is viable for my year and even if it is, it will change the car into something is no longer is. So I am forced to sell back as my only option.

I've done my research and feel that the offer is low and is clean trade in once you back out the extra compensation and mileage (mine happened to be in the positive because I have a low mileage 2013). Taking the mileage addition away for some of us would further prove the point that VW is offering trade in value.

I don't know about everyone else, but I have never traded a vehicle in at the dealer in 25 years of driving. I always sold private party.

So in light of this and other "options" being left out as well as extended warranties the deal needs to get sweeter for the majority of us if not all of us.

 

[Dieselchen]

I hate giving it up but its the only logical option and have to tell myself, if I had driven it to DEATH does us part (20 years) a out the door $23k car = $1150 per year.
With this Buyback even thus unhappy I had it 5 years and each year cost me $700.
Getting a NEW GTI for an additional $5k only is not too bad I reckon.

 

[ibsam2005]

I think the first few to trade in(using that term rather than buy back, since that is what it is), need to keep pushing the envelope on how crappy it is.

My plan: Remove every paneling and decorate my garage walls. Cool art right? Well, I need chairs to sit in to look at the art, so take out all my seats, could have 2 recliners and a bench for others to look as well. Need money for beer in the garage so take off the exhaust and scrap it for it's precious metals. Sell the wheels and get steelies, maybe $20 more bucks there. Doesn't really need a hood and trunk to drive so take that off. hmmmm... my creativity is buzzing

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

LOL.. apparently you don't.

Vehicles would have needed to be in your name Sept 2015.

Nope. The car I just bought has a clean title, and is eligible for the buyback. There are plenty more out there too, and practically no one outside of current TDI owners and probably VW dealership employees knows anything about it.

 

[seth1065]

I have 125,000 on my 11 so high mileage and if I sold it private party I would take a hit on it because of the high mileage, so either way those of us w high mileage pay a price but I assume we all knew this when we bought on, I have no idea what I will do, car is in good shape and I really do not want another payment but if my math is right VW is offering me about 17,000 and there is no way my car is worth that on the open market today or last Sept so have some thinking to do.

Some of us have very clean cars. We are getting hosed with mileage.

 

[faithless]

VW can go screw on the mileage adjustment. We bought these cars FOR GAS MILEAGE and driving it. The adjustment is way over valued for what it is. I keep my car immaculate and my odometer says 85k on my 2011 and I have to take a $1,440 hit?? That TDI engine is just broken in. They should know better than this. Also the whole adjust for 6spd, moon roof and all that garbage who cares! It should be from WHAT I ORIGINALLY PAID for the vehicle.

There should be none of this BS. They should give us the sale price of the car minus 1k per year of ownership which comes out to $83 a month. Lets be nice and bump that up to $100. That is fair.

So all of you 2015 owners would be what you paid minus $100 for each month you owned it. For my 2011 should be 25k-6k which would be 19k back to me. No matter how many miles as long as the car is in good condition.

Anything else is not good enough.

 

[JD_TDI]

I haven't been able to keep up with threadzilla Jr., so please forgive me if this has been covered. If there is no fix and I don't take the buyback, won't that put VW in a very bad bargaining position? They have to get the cars off the road, right?...Mark

It's my understanding that is there is not a fix you will be forced to sell it back. Likely your state will receive compensation for this from the EPA, CARB or whoever and if you can't prove the car has been fixed then no registration for you. I'm in Georgia and do not have to do emissions testing for diesel vehicles, but it's already come out that if the car hasn't been fixed I won't be able to register the car after VW's grace period has ended.

 

[faultymechanics]

Both offers should be equally exceptable. To me it is unacceptable that people feel like they have to take one option or the other. Fix viability is a great reason not to take it, but it should be a fair value between buyback and a fix option in terms of compensation.

If people are feeling like they HAVE to take a fix or are telling others top go with the fix instead of a buyback because their numbers suck...well that to me means this offer is garbage and NEEDS to be kicked back.

Ultimately you ALL need to realize we bought cars that were lies. Any driving done in the car after that point is negligible and should be considered part of us being cheated.

They really should charge us mileage til the day up to the scandal broke. AND we should be paid back to get in another car without spending a dime.

It is all a bunch of bull. People who advocate for VW's side and complain about whiners have very clearly shown they don't know the entire situation or are only cluing themselves in on part of the agreement. Or they are just idiots, sorry but if you think this deal is fair across the board you are SO sadly mistaken.

 

[faithless]

VW can go screw on the mileage adjustment. We bought these cars FOR GAS MILEAGE and driving it. The adjustment is way over valued for what it is. I keep my car immaculate and my odometer says 85k on my 2011 and I have to take a $1,440 hit?? That TDI engine is just broken in. They should know better than this. Also the whole adjust for 6spd, moon roof and all that garbage who cares! It should be from WHAT I ORIGINALLY PAID for the vehicle.
There should be none of this BS. They should give us the sale price of the car minus 1k per year of ownership which comes out to $83 a month. Lets me nice and bump that up to $100. That is fair.
So all of you 2015 owners would be what you paid minus $100 for each month you owned it. For my 2011 should be 25k-6k which would be 19k back to me. No matter how many miles as long as the car is in good condition.

 

[faithless]

Right now my car's buyback value is $16,516 for a immaculate condition 85k TDI. In order to replace my car with something similar I have to put in almost another 10k which I wasn't planning on doing for another 5 years. I am sure there are many other people in the same boat. The have to at least meet us half way between the two numbers.

 

[flyanddive]

It's my understanding that is there is not a fix you will be forced to sell it back. Likely your state will receive compensation for this from the EPA, CARB or whoever and if you can't prove the car has been fixed then no registration for you. I'm in Georgia and do not have to do emissions testing for diesel vehicles, but it's already come out that if the car hasn't been fixed I won't be able to register the car after VW's grace period has ended.

No, you are not forced to do anything. My problem with the judgement is that you don't have the option to sell the car back if the fix has an unacceptable level of performance.

 

[ericy]

The 2015 owners who are not getting made whole are ones who had some combination of the following:
1) Added on a lot of options to the car
2) Paid closer to MSRP and did not negotiate a discount
3) Ran up a ton of miles very quickly

Add "4) purchased extended warranty" to the list. Actually I briefly considered purchasing prepaid maintenance when we got the goodwill cards, and decided against it. The 10K and 20K service were covered by VW, so I haven't spent a dime on service.

In my case I got a really good deal on the car since it was the very end of the model year, the only aftermarket thing that got added was window tint and a bike rack(the bike rack I can easily remove and transfer to a new vehicle), didn't purchase any extra prepaid maintenance/warranty, and I only have 21K miles on the car. Thus when I ran the numbers, they will end up paying me to drive the car for 2 years.

Clearly most people aren't like me - I get that.

 

[Dans4]

I have 125,000 on my 11 so high mileage and if I sold it private party I would take a hit on it because of the high mileage, so either way those of us w high mileage pay a price but I assume we all knew this when we bought on, I have no idea what I will do, car is in good shape and I really do not want another payment but if my math is right VW is offering me about 17,000 and there is no way my car is worth that on the open market today or last Sept so have some thinking to do.

I have a 2010 with 180K miles.

All service records. No major dings dents great condition.

VW offering me $10,500




That was the value of Tdis last year. Most were around 12k.




So one year and 60k miles is worth 7K?

 

[JCTDI]

Add "4) purchased extended warranty" to the list.

I suspect VWoA will give the dealers huge incentives to get customers to trade for a new VW. You could probably convince VW to "transfer" your extended warranty to a new VW.

 

[FloridaJohn]

When is the last date that we are able to sell the car back to VW?

December 30, 2018

Source http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/filelibrary/1782/Consumer_Settlement_Agreement.pdf page 75 of the pdf.

You have to tell VW you want them to buy it back no later than September 1, 2018. From that page 75 referenced above:

"The Class Action Settlement claim program closes on December 30, 2018. You must have submitted a complete and valid claim by September 1, 2018 to get a Buyback or an Approved Emissions Modification plus Restitution Payment by the time the Class Action Settlement claim program ends."

 

[solBLACK]

Finally got to the end of the thread. Love how upset everyone is still.

The thing that confuses me are people here who purchased a TDI and haven't put on very many miles. Isn't that the point of buying a TDI? You purchase it for the insane MPG for highway driving. It's blowing my mind that people have '13 or '14 with under 30k miles. I just hit 32k last week on my '15.

 

[Nicolae]

Your comment should be on VW's Headquarters!

I have to say, when the news first broke about what VW did, I was neither mad nor upset, just another example of Big Business trying to pull something over on the little guy. It happens every day – some get caught and many do not. I would have bought a VW again – they make a good product, period. I am a small business owner – I know how tough it is to survive, one of the corner stones of our company is loyalty, both to our customers and to our vendors.

But now I am mad…

We all know that when you make a mistake, you pay the consequences. When you are deceitful and/or break the law, you don't usually get to choose your own punishments on how to make things right. Why is a judge not telling VW what they need to do to make this right, versus VW being able to come up with what they think is fair. I have to be honest – I know this is just one step in the negotiation process, but I do not have a lot of confidence in the ‘comments’ period. We are essentially at the mercy of the large corporation who knowing broke the law and hid it, to decide what's fair compensation for the consumers it wronged. Come on, really!?

A lot of you have brought up very valid points, from “trade-in value” (I don’t want to trade it in – you are forcing my hand), not taking into account purchase price, whether the vehicle was purchased new, or individuals that have a history of owning VW’s (now that makes business sense – let’s try to alienate the loyal VW owners even more). And the whole thing about additions/deductions for mileage. OK, we are not idiots (even though you would like to think that) – we know this is complicated and there will always be a certain percentage that is not happy with the compensation.

Here is our situation, we bought a TDI for many reasons – mileage, longevity, and torque (we have a manual) and are purchasing a small teardrop camper to pull. We have been presented with two options. Sell the car back to you – that causes us to ‘lose' on several points: 1.) There is nothing in the price range with similar attributes that we can replace it with. 2.) My wife is going to retire – we did not want to have a car payment (our 2013 Sportwagen will be paid off in about 10 months). So because of #1 & #2, we will have to take out another car loan to replace a car that we are happy with – so we ‘lose’. [I get the whole thing about depreciation for the years that we have owned it – I am not asking for a new car – but the end result is that we ‘lose' because of no fault of our own]. So let’s say we take the modification payment. We wait to get compensated (the timeline is out of our control). You take our car, and modify it – what do we get back? That is the million dollar question – will it be better from MY standpoint – I highly doubt it. Maybe from the EPA/CARB standpoint – but they did not purchase the car, I did. Will it have less MPG, less torque, less horsepower – if so, I don’t want it. Your compensation number is a number that you feel makes up for that – you can’t determine that – and I understand that this process is supposed to be fair to the whole. But you know what – I am going to ‘lose'. I researched online before I bought the car, I had a fair idea of what the MPG should be, I drove the car and bought the car based on how it performed. If that changes at all – I don’t want it no matter what compensation you give me. What I would really like to do it keep it as is. So you say, OK, just opt-out and you should be happy. But wait – that means you do not have to compensate me for your wrong-doing (yes, I got the $1k Christmas gift – but that is not going to cut it). I don’t need cash, how about lifetime warranty and maintenance for the current owner. Now there is a concept – respect and appreciate your loyal customers. VW could actually come out ahead with respect to customer loyalty. If you look in your little owner database you will see that (3) of us in the Rather family have a VW Sportwagen – a 2011, 2013 & 2015 (and we previously had a 2012 that was totaled in an accident.)

VW - treat us right…

Your comment should be on VW's Headquarters and on all of their TDI clients.
--> lifetime warranty and maintenance for the current owner <--

 

[ottomatic]

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4979961#post4979961

 

[swampyankee]

No one is asking to be enriched. The common thread I'm seeing is people are rightfully pointing out the VW is lowballing by offering trade in value instead of private party sale value.

The 'compensation' has ZERO to do with the base price. My car wasn't worth $8600 in August 2015 if I where to have sold it. I would have been able to sell for something like $10,500-$11K.

The trade in value is a point of reference. Add the 20% and the ~$3K and it is no longer trade in value.....

What am I missing here? The dollar figure being offered is IN ALL CASES higher than the trade in value as of Aug 2015. Geez....

You are getting over $13K for your car

 

[Keith63]

How does one inform VW you want a buyback or if you want the fix? Can anyone guess what the MPG will be with the fix?

 

[ecupip]

I believe most extended warranties have a clause that allows you to terminate and get a refund minus any repairs that were paid out.

Also condition is explicitly outlined and excluded from the buy back value. The car only has to drive on its on power.

 

[vchowdry]

When is the earliest we can return, and what is the latest we can return 12, 24 months? I GOT THIS ANSWER DECEMBER 2018, must submit request by SEPTEMBER 2018.

are there going to be discounts on VW vehichles?

if we get another vw do we can we use funds as trade in and save sales tax?

can VW accept trade in from other dealers so we can save tax?

What does warranty cover and how long do we have (is it only for modified cars), or if we are doing buyback but waiting some time can we still benefit

On mileage credit or subtraction we get 1k mileage credit per month since sept 2015, does that still hold if we wait the maximum time

what happens to the 2015 and 2016 car that never sold?

If my interpretation is correct it is fair settlement...it could have been sweeter but it is fair.

My situation is 2009 Jetta Tdi with Sunroof, 130k with mileage adjust, so 13k minus 2k for mileage so I net 11k for a car that is 7 years old, never had an issue other than recall emission flap, and that I bought for 20.7k new.

So 10 k depreciation for 7 years 140k miles -10k for milage adjust, is pretty good, probably going to keep the car till june 2018 which puts me at 9 years . 170k miles -30k milage adjust. puts me at 6 cents mile depreciation and 9 years + 1k good will package Im at 9k depreciation and 5 cents per mile. I d be lucky to ever get such a deal in the future.

I also got IRS rate for mileage for my employer at about 57 cents per mile for 33000 miles, (about 18.8k minus gas and oil change, tires, im likely +14 k there)

 

[swampyankee]

I have a 2010 with 180K miles.

All service records. No major dings dents great condition.

VW offering me $10,500




That was the value of Tdis last year. Most were around 12k.




So one year and 60k miles is worth 7K?

Your car has 180K miles on it. nobody would pay 12K for that

 

[autdi]

I haven't been able to keep up with threadzilla Jr., so please forgive me if this has been covered. If there is no fix and I don't take the buyback, won't that put VW in a very bad bargaining position? They have to get the cars off the road, right?...Mark

If no fix is possible, and you keep the car, for each 4500 cars, VW has to pay a fine of $85M, plus $13.5M if that shortfall is in California. Working back, that's 21,777 a car in a fine. That's pretty much the upper limit VW has any incentive to go to. If they get to 85% accept rate, there is no fine, so the upper limit near the expiration is $0, they have no incentive to make a deal.

 

[DubFamily]

The trade in value is a point of reference. Add the 20% and the ~$3K and it is no longer trade in value.....
What am I missing here? The dollar figure being offered is IN ALL CASES higher than the trade in value as of Aug 2015. Geez....
You are getting over $13K for your car

The $5100+ is meant to be compensation for their lying and cheating, take that out of the equation for the car completely. It is not related to the car buyback, imo.

What is left, is trade-in value adjusted for mileage. What was "promised" is fair market value for the car pre-scandal.

We are not being given what was promised, it's that simple.

I am not looking for a "payday" here; I just want to be fairly compensated so I can move to a different car without additional cost to me. I did nothing wrong, I should not have to pay more money for a different car I had no intention of buying until VW screwed up.

 

[Big Poppa Pump]

I have a 2013 Beetle with DSG and 39k on the odometer. I have a major (expensive) service coming up in 1k miles. Oh what to do .....

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

How does one inform VW you want a buyback or if you want the fix? Can anyone guess what the MPG will be with the fix?

The news made it sound you would need to make an appointment at a dealership to take care of it...along the lines of making a service appointment. I'm curious to see how that works out. I've got four VW dealers within an hour or so. I will just take mine to whichever can get me in the quickest.

I'm guessing that when you call to make your appointment, you would need to specify buyback/check or fix/check. I would expect that to happen sometime this fall.

As for a "fix"....there is currently not an approved fix, so there's no way for anyone to reasonably guess what the MPG would be (assuming they ever come up with an approved fix).

 

[dshaner]

Here is some pricing information found on cars.com that shows the values around Sept 2015 (Jetta and Passat)

https://www.cars.com/articles/vws-used-car-prices-down-in-wake-of-diesel-crisis-1420681307568/

 

[maybe368]

It's my understanding that is there is not a fix you will be forced to sell it back. Likely your state will receive compensation for this from the EPA, CARB or whoever and if you can't prove the car has been fixed then no registration for you. I'm in Georgia and do not have to do emissions testing for diesel vehicles, but it's already come out that if the car hasn't been fixed I won't be able to register the car after VW's grace period has ended.

They may be able to force me to return it, but at MY price. They (VW) are not in control of this. It is a crumby price and if they want to defend a consumer fraud law suit, so be it. I would think that a higher buy back price would be a lot cheaper...Mark