Dieselgate, The Canadian Edition

[uchu]

OK, maybe I am all confused about the offer but I think that, realistically, the offer as it was submitted can't be any more specific at this point. They are offering some punitive damage payments (which is clear enough and it depends on the vehicle manufacturing year only). This is specified in the Schedule D document.

Now, for the buy back or trade in payment, do people really expect to get a exact figure in such short notice? We are talking about some 100,000 vehicles. Each one with different conditions, mileage, etc. The exact payment amount can only be determined after the vehicles have been examined, i.e., in a case by case basis. The settlement provided ranges for the payments, based on model and year, as well as a mileage range formula from the time when the scandal broke out, the actual in service date and mileage when the vehicle is surrendered (Schedule E). With that figure, you can position your vehicle in the CBB table for each corresponding model and year. Nothing dead accurate, but a good approximation, nonetheless.

In my own personal opinion, the only reason for someone to exclude him/herself of the proposed settlement is because they feel that the offer will be so low that it would justify the risk to go on their own and sue VW directly. I think that people has done just that down south and who knows how that would play here in Canada.

The bigger question, for me anyways, is not if you accept the deal or not, but if you go ahead and keep driving the car, hoping for a fix down the road, or take the buy back/trade in offer.

 

[Armby]

Now, for the buy back or trade in payment, do people really expect to get a exact figure in such short notice? We are talking about some 100,000 vehicles. Each one with different conditions, mileage, etc. The exact payment amount can only be determined after the vehicles have been examined, i.e., in a case by case basis. The settlement provided ranges for the payments, based on model and year, as well as a mileage range formula from the time when the scandal broke out, the actual in service date and mileage when the vehicle is surrendered (Schedule E). With that figure, you can position your vehicle in the CBB table for each corresponding model and year. Nothing dead accurate, but a good approximation, nonetheless.
.

In the US they were given a way to calculate the exact figure in the preliminary agreement document, right down to the dollar including mileage adjustments. There will be no adjustments for condition, only mileage. That is as described in our documents (as well as what happened in the US)

 

[uchu]

In the US they were given a way to calculate the exact figure in the preliminary agreement document, right down to the dollar including mileage adjustments. There will be no adjustments for condition, only mileage. That is as described in our documents (as well as what happened in the US)

You are absolutely right, my bad. That's a serious lack of detail in the Canadian offer. How much impact will this have in the accuracy of the actual offer, it will remain to be seen. Maybe I am looking at things from the more practical point of view, but that does not mean that I will not be submitting an objection to the proposed settlement.

 

[dwfdiesel]

yes I doubt if I will oppose the deal and likely drive my perfectly running car till 2018 then we will see what options are available, possibly including keeping my car as I just can't find a replacement that is equal to what I have. The price of purchase is only one factor in the expense of owning a car.

 

[Lucsar]

I have been out of the loop a little, but from what I have read, we do not seem to know any more details about this buyback, and we won't until it is too late to sue VW on our own? Is this correct?

Unfortunately, I don't think we're gonna get anymore information until the end of March ; the final court approval dates. My hope is that once the ball gets rolling , we don't have the issues here that they've been having in the U.S. One would think they've had some experience already and should be able to make it a little smoother process over here.... We hope...

 

[Smokin_Joe]

From all the options listed in the upcoming class action....one in particular seemed interesting. The value of our 2011 Golf TDI Highline will be calculated based on what it was worth under the Canadian Black Book Wholesale on Sept 18 2015. Since we were the original owners{still are} we would be given an additional $5100 to top up the value of the car on Sept 18 2015. Am I wrong? Rough calculations seem to put the buy back over $20,000 cdn.

 

[minitechnicus]

Hello everyone

This is something new (at least for me!)
http://autoweek.com/article/vw-diesel-scandal/vw-diesel-owners-will-get-cash-compensation-bosch-too

Cheers

 

[1sTDI]

^ I believe the article is referring to US owners

 

[uchu]

^ I believe the article is referring to US owners

Yes, but it's not clear what Bosch will do with similar lawsuits in other countries. Not sure if there's a Canadian class action suit against them? Maybe it's worth to contact the handling attorneys to see what they know about this...

 

[Nebelwerfer]

I find it funny that you find it funny.
If the entire world had the same population density as northern Ontario, there would be no environmental problems whatsoever.

The fact that there is no standardization for the entire province regardless of location means it's junk policies.

Regards

 

[Threecube]

Yes, but it's not clear what Bosch will do with similar lawsuits in other countries. Not sure if there's a Canadian class action suit against them? Maybe it's worth to contact the handling attorneys to see what they know about this...

There does seem to be a Canadian class action lawsuit against Bosch according to the Court docket that was shown on the day the VW Canada Settlement happened.

 

[Ursadorable]

Since we were the original owners{still are} we would be given an additional $5100 to top up the value of the car on Sept 18 2015. Am I wrong? Rough calculations seem to put the buy back over $20,000 cdn.

Sounds about right.. I calculated somewhere in the ballpark of $21-22k for the same car with 50K KMS.

 

[tobianogreg]

Winterkorn's facing jail time. http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2017/02/04/report-piech-throws-winterkorn-under-volkswagen-bus/#1d4f0b391ae3

 

[uchu]

There does seem to be a Canadian class action lawsuit against Bosch according to the Court docket that was shown on the day the VW Canada Settlement happened.

Very interesting. Thank you for posting this!

 

[Airdog]

I am new to the forum and thought I would read a lot more hype regarding the Canadian option of trading, albeit for another VW. Honestly, my 2015 Golf comfortline built on the MQB frame and updated interior and exterior is undoubtedly the best vehicle I have owned. Says a lot when my first new car was a 1972 Plymouth 340 Duster way back when.
Anyways, unless one has a blind hate on for the company, the trade option looks pretty appealing. While there is already an approved fix for the EA288 engine for my vehicle, there will always be the uncertainty IMHO.
Wonder what the 2018 redesigned Jetta has to offer and when it is expected in showrooms? If it has the fit and trim of my Golf will consider.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

I am new to the forum and thought I would read a lot more hype regarding the Canadian option of trading, albeit for another VW. Honestly, my 2015 Golf comfortline built on the MQB frame and updated interior and exterior is undoubtedly the best vehicle I have owned. Says a lot when my first new car was a 1972 Plymouth 340 Duster way back when.
Anyways, unless one has a blind hate on for the company, the trade option looks pretty appealing. While there is already an approved fix for the EA288 engine for my vehicle, there will always be the uncertainty IMHO.
Wonder what the 2018 redesigned Jetta has to offer and when it is expected in showrooms? If it has the fit and trim of my Golf will consider.

Not to rain on your parade but there is another skeleton in the closet concerning the tdi that you might want to investigate before getting another. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299854&highlight=list+hpfp+failures Just google hpfp failures and take a real good look. You have been warned.

 

[Airdog]

I knew there were many a problem with the older EA189 diesel's but was led to believe the newer version in the 2015's solved the HPFP issues. Having said that, ironically this morning I had my third flashing glow plug light in the last couple of months.. First two times I just reset by restarting the engine. Today I drove with it flashing to see the effect. First, engine temperature did not reach normal values even after 15 km and engine power was very low even at 2500 RPM in second.
If there is a forum better suited for my dilemma can you steer me in the right direction?
Thanks

 

[daveyboy1357]

Does anyone know a rough estimate or percentage difference between trade-in on new or used VW or Audi(retail value of TDI plus cash value) compared to straight money back offer (wholesale BB value plus cash value)? In other words, when I get a replacement vehicle, how much further ahead will I be getting a used Vw or Audi from the dealer rather than something else?

I know this will vary from vehicle to vehicle but wondered if anyone knew a rough calculation guide

 

[uchu]

Does anyone know a rough estimate or percentage difference between trade-in on new or used VW or Audi(retail value of TDI plus cash value) compared to straight money back offer (wholesale BB value plus cash value)? In other words, when I get a replacement vehicle, how much further ahead will I be getting a used Vw or Audi from the dealer rather than something else?

I know this will vary from vehicle to vehicle but wondered if anyone knew a rough calculation guide

Go to post #2208. The spreadsheet calculator linked there will give you a good idea of what the best scenario would be for your case.

 

[bluetoy]

Not to rain on your parade but there is another skeleton in the closet concerning the tdi that you might want to investigate before getting another. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299854&highlight=list+hpfp+failures Just google hpfp failures and take a real good look. You have been warned.

You know that the HPFP already has added an extended warranty good for 120,000 miles/10 years right? Also the approved fix comes with a warranty that covers the HPFP as well.

 

[tobianogreg]

You know that the HPFP already has added an extended warranty good for 120,000 miles/10 years right? Also the approved fix comes with a warranty that covers the HPFP as well.

That's only in the states right?

 

[GoFaster]

The warranty extension that is likely to come with the emissions modification should be comparable. If it isn't, let them have the car back.

 

[tobianogreg]

"The Approved Emissions Modification Extended Warranty shall cover all components that are replaced as part of the Approved Emissions Modification, any component that, as determined by appropriate regulators, can reasonably be impacted by effects of the Approved Emissions Modification, as well as the engine sub- assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft cylinder head, camshaft and valve train. The Approved Emissions Modification Extended Warranty shall cover all parts and labour related to the covered components, as well as the cost or provision of a loaner vehicle for warranty service lasting longer than three (3) hours."

 

[Armby]

If you settle using the trade in option you would get the same total amount before HST (or PST/GST). The trade in option allows you to reduce sales tax on your replacement car. In Ontario that's 13% of the trade in value.


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[mxs]

It seems that it should be the case, but I am not 100% convinced that this will be the case .... the documents talk about "Total" values always. The payout is total certainly as tax plays no role here, but the vehicle sold is the sticky part. They could easily turn-around and say the payout amount will be deduct from your total new vehicle price.

I guess it depends whether the government will allow them to do that ... it they do, I'd take it as 13% incentive from another VW/Audi sale. Now, from what sort of new vehicle price is for another discussion .... at the end of the day, there might not be any savings at all from this ...

 

[big_red]

It seems that it should be the case, but I am not 100% convinced that this will be the case .... the documents talk about "Total" values always. The payout is total certainly as tax plays no role here, but the vehicle sold is the sticky part. They could easily turn-around and say the payout amount will be deduct from your total new vehicle price.

I guess it depends whether the government will allow them to do that ... it they do, I'd take it as 13% incentive from another VW/Audi sale. Now, from what sort of new vehicle price is for another discussion .... at the end of the day, there might not be any savings at all from this ...

This is all in the documents that VW posted on the site. The trade-in value will be the current value of the vehicle they are buying back (not the Sept 2015 value), then they will cut you a cheque for the difference between current and Sept 2015 value, plus the restitution amount.

So lets say you have a 2012 Jetta, that has a current trade in value of $15000, and was worth $20000 in Sept 2015, and you want to purchase a new 2018 Jetta worth $28000 before tax.

You would pay (in Ontario):
New Car: $28000
Trade Value: -15000
Total: $13000
Tax: $1690
Total with Tax: $14690

You would also receive a cheque for $5000 (difference between the Sept 2015 value and the current trade value) and and the additional $5100 restituion. So $10100. You could apply that to the remaining $14690 and only owe $4590 extra for the new car.

If you were to purchase the same car without the trade, your taxes would be $3640, so there's a tax benefit of $1950 by trading it in (in that example) to VW that you wouldn't get if you were to purchase outside your buyback dealer.

The benefit is basically the current trade-in value of the vehicle x 0.13 (in Ontario). I'm not sure if the trade-in values will be very low by the time they get around to this buy-back or if the values will start to go up significantly as nobody in their right mind should be trading them for less than the 2015 value plus a few grand. But I'm guessing they will be low.

 

[mxs]

Which document/page has the specific calculation involving a tax?

Your $1950 benefit of the trade-in deal vs. not, is very theoretical, because, there's an MSRP, there's going market price and then there, I am sure, will be Dieselgate price as far as the new replacement vehicle you will be shopping for. You will not have a control over that VW/dealer does (of course, they will not be as open about it ...).

 

[FVWVWF]

So lets say you have a 2012 Jetta, that has a current trade in value of $15000....

You would also receive a cheque for $5000 (difference between the Sept 2015 value and the current trade value) and and the additional $5100 restituion. So $10100.

I hope your numbers are somewhat right. They are much better than my guesstimated calculations.
If I receive $25,000 for my 2012 with 125,000 kms, I'm going to Disneyland.

 

[ecode]

Max value for a 2012 Jetta TDI is $23,718... So no, $25k isn't going to happen*

*according to the crappy charts we currently have access to...

 

[NSTDI]

The trade price you get sales tax credit for is the price the dealer offers you for a trade. That will be less than the buyback price.

VW will pay the difference between the dealer trade price and the buyback price, but you will get no sales tax credit on the VW "top up" payment.

You will get no sales tax credit on the penalty money either, if you choose to apply that against your new vehicle cost.

I am also not sure the trade deal applies to a used vehicle purchase, it may only apply to a new VW.

This is what I read from the settlement documents posted.

Don