No they're not.
One individual attempted and the car was rejected. What most do is take our their aftermarket stuff off/out but the original back on/in.
Dieselgate, The Canadian Edition
- Thread starter Ursadorable
- Start date
One individual attempted and the car was rejected. What most do is take our their aftermarket stuff off/out but the original back on/in.
Nobody knows, how much impact the condition and mileage lower than 20K standard average will have on the values. Hence, take the low wholesale and expect no deduction if your are under 20K (which you are) as your worst number. It can only get better from there to the tune of 5K max give or take.
That's my impression as well. Especially after the judge issued the members a warning ...
You should call the lawyers and ask them what your values would be....
uchu
Veteran Member
I used the wrong expression. I meant stripped from all aftermarket parts, specialty rims or tires, etc.
Again, I think there's going to be a lot of pushing and shoving for each individual case.
VWJets
Active member
I've skimmed through this entire thread and I haven't seen anyone who has successfully received a hard number from any of the law firms.
I'll aim low and hope for the best.
This really doesn't seem on-par with the US settlement from the customer's perspective (IMO).
But you should still call them and make sure they know that without hard numbers, this 'settlement' is bullsh!t.
Lucsar
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2015
- Location
- Ontario
- TDI
- Returned to VW: 2015 Passat Highline DSG EarlyLease Termination
Any guesses as to when actual buy backs or lease turn ins start ?
I'm not sure if this question has been asked in the Canadian Settlement; I believe the letter or email court document we've received stated that March 27th ? Would be the final court approval for both Quebec & Ontario. If this is the case the next step would be to sent out forms or we would fill out documents stating our choice to either take the buyback, early lease termination or do nothing/opt out of settlement. By the time all documents are submitted and your choice given; can anyone guess as to when we would actually see return appointments ?? I'm hoping things would go smoother seeing how they had some preliminary speed bumps(hmmn, hmmn) in the U.S. After reading some threads recently it sounds like many folks are saying that the process was quite quick and painless ... Am I being too optimistic ..??
I'm not sure if this question has been asked in the Canadian Settlement; I believe the letter or email court document we've received stated that March 27th ? Would be the final court approval for both Quebec & Ontario. If this is the case the next step would be to sent out forms or we would fill out documents stating our choice to either take the buyback, early lease termination or do nothing/opt out of settlement. By the time all documents are submitted and your choice given; can anyone guess as to when we would actually see return appointments ?? I'm hoping things would go smoother seeing how they had some preliminary speed bumps(hmmn, hmmn) in the U.S. After reading some threads recently it sounds like many folks are saying that the process was quite quick and painless ... Am I being too optimistic ..??
uchu
Veteran Member
Court hearings are scheduled March 22 in Quebec and March 31 in Ontario. Assuming they go smoothly, the judges should give the green light for the program roll out, this is, the options of buy back, trade in or keep it and take the (still in the air) fix. If the Canadian proceeds mirror the ones down south, it should not take too long to get it done. But who knows...
NSTDI
Veteran Member
Fix for the 2015's
I posted this in the general non Canadian discussion on Dieselgate. I am posting it here in case some of you are not still following that part of the forum.
Reading from this:
https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en...Volkswagen.pdf
This relates to the 2015, I am guessing the fix for other TDI's will be similar, when and if available.
1. In the extended warranty, I see nothing covering the failure prone Ad Blue Heaters? I don't see the word "heater" mentioned"'?
2. Warranty will run until 11 years or 162,000 miles, they seem to be saying this is the "useful life" of a VW TDI.
3. Exception may be for high milers who have more than 162K at time of fix 1 and or fix 2.
4. Fix 2 not available before Jan 1/18.
5. The fix may see your ad blue consumption increase from 1% to 14%. No effect on performance, etc.
6. Is there a fix for the fix if ad blue consumption increases by say 50% or if drivability suffers greatly?
7. Lots of us will exceed the 162,000 miles long before the 11 years, many are there now.
8. This whole mess just keeps going on and on.
9. I'm disappointed the useful life of a VW TDI is 162,000 miles, as negotiated by VW and the government. Guess we should have bought a Toyota, etc.?
Don
I posted this in the general non Canadian discussion on Dieselgate. I am posting it here in case some of you are not still following that part of the forum.
Reading from this:
https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en...Volkswagen.pdf
This relates to the 2015, I am guessing the fix for other TDI's will be similar, when and if available.
1. In the extended warranty, I see nothing covering the failure prone Ad Blue Heaters? I don't see the word "heater" mentioned"'?
2. Warranty will run until 11 years or 162,000 miles, they seem to be saying this is the "useful life" of a VW TDI.
3. Exception may be for high milers who have more than 162K at time of fix 1 and or fix 2.
4. Fix 2 not available before Jan 1/18.
5. The fix may see your ad blue consumption increase from 1% to 14%. No effect on performance, etc.
6. Is there a fix for the fix if ad blue consumption increases by say 50% or if drivability suffers greatly?
7. Lots of us will exceed the 162,000 miles long before the 11 years, many are there now.
8. This whole mess just keeps going on and on.
9. I'm disappointed the useful life of a VW TDI is 162,000 miles, as negotiated by VW and the government. Guess we should have bought a Toyota, etc.?
Don
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
1. It's supposed to cover the entire emission control system, although obviously the lack of specific mention is a concern.
2. Actually, according to the EPA, 150,000 miles is the defined useful life of the emission control system, so this actually goes beyond that. Obviously, there is not (or had better not be) a countdown timer that presses "self-destruct" at 162,001 miles.
3. In this case, they are covered by a 5 year 60,000 mile warranty from the time of completion of phase 1 which then resets and starts again at the completion of phase 2.
4, 5. OK.
6. No, unless something malfunctions to the extent of triggering the lemon-law out.
7. That's nice. You are still covered by the 5 year or 60,000 mile (whichever comes first) from the time of phase 1 fix which starts over at the time of start 2 fix. Warranties have a time limit and a mileage limit ... that's life.
8. Yes, it does.
9. The useful life of a Toyota's emission control system is defined to be 150,000 miles (for Calif) or 120,000 miles (elsewhere). As mentioned above, there is not an automatic self-destruct when you exceed this.
If you can't handle the uncertainty then do the buyback and go buy something else that you're not as worried about.
2. Actually, according to the EPA, 150,000 miles is the defined useful life of the emission control system, so this actually goes beyond that. Obviously, there is not (or had better not be) a countdown timer that presses "self-destruct" at 162,001 miles.
3. In this case, they are covered by a 5 year 60,000 mile warranty from the time of completion of phase 1 which then resets and starts again at the completion of phase 2.
4, 5. OK.
6. No, unless something malfunctions to the extent of triggering the lemon-law out.
7. That's nice. You are still covered by the 5 year or 60,000 mile (whichever comes first) from the time of phase 1 fix which starts over at the time of start 2 fix. Warranties have a time limit and a mileage limit ... that's life.
8. Yes, it does.
9. The useful life of a Toyota's emission control system is defined to be 150,000 miles (for Calif) or 120,000 miles (elsewhere). As mentioned above, there is not an automatic self-destruct when you exceed this.
If you can't handle the uncertainty then do the buyback and go buy something else that you're not as worried about.
NSTDI
Veteran Member
If you can't handle the uncertainty then do the buyback and go buy something else that you're not as worried about.
That's what all this is pointing to. I've already made my decision to not own this car beyond my warranty, I was posting the above to add that information for others to review for their info.
I already lost my ad blue heater, at the time VW insisted it is not part of the emissions system warranty. I think it is.
Don
That's what all this is pointing to. I've already made my decision to not own this car beyond my warranty, I was posting the above to add that information for others to review for their info.
I already lost my ad blue heater, at the time VW insisted it is not part of the emissions system warranty. I think it is.
Don
dwfdiesel
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2011
- TDI
- 2006 Golf & 2012 Golf wagon, 1998 GMC 6.5 with 310,000km
Wow so we are using wholesale price to determine the value of my car. I have to replace my car since it will be illegal to drive on Ontario roads I have searched and I cannot buy a vehicle anywhere for the wholesale price they all use what is called retail price which is normal but I only get wholesale price so I'll be short and don't say the $5100+/- is to defer the cost as the agreement says that is not included in the price of my car. So basically we can add theft to the fraud charges..... pissed
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
Don't jump to the conclusion that the car will be illegal to drive as-is. We don't know that yet. In 45 of the 50 US states, people can keep on driving as if nothing had ever happened. There is a fair chance that the same thing will happen here.
And, the number is "based on" the wholesale price but then with a big addition on top of that number ... For the 2011 Golf that is under question in our family, the guesstimate for what VW will pay for it FAR exceeds what we could foreseeably sell it for ...
And, the number is "based on" the wholesale price but then with a big addition on top of that number ... For the 2011 Golf that is under question in our family, the guesstimate for what VW will pay for it FAR exceeds what we could foreseeably sell it for ...
Not Happy With VW
Well-known member
its not theft if you don't sign up and keep the car, and the cars will still pass the stationary Ontario drive clean tests the same as they always have.
You can keep the car and get the $5100 if you let them try to fix it, or you can keep the car and not participate.
I am a little bitter over the "wholesale value" in Canada vs the US getting "clean trade in" but it's not going to be enough to stop me from getting out the car as quickly as I can and I know I won't get a better offer anywhere else at this point.
NADA trade values are wholesale. They are derived from auction prices for that particular car/condition.
The only real difference for us is our condition categories are going to be arrived from our mileage... not a blanket condition like the US got... Thankfully the High to Low CBB prices aren't crazy far apart.
Again, I'd like real info from VW about values before making a final comment though.
Armby
Veteran Member
I am not an expert on the different black/blue/NADA/Kelly values but simply based on the name I would assume that a trade-in value is what a dealer will pay you for your car, wholesale value is what a dealer will pay for or buy a car at auction. Common sense would say that a dealer will pay you less for your car than he will get at auction so trade-in value should be lower than wholesale.
The US agreement also adjusts for mileage. Same beefs from high mileage US owners as we see here. Condition is not a factor in the US or Canadian settlements, only mileage.
Agree, re getting the real values. Without the numbers I don't see how anyone: VW, Class lawyers, nor judge could consider this an "agreement".
From the way I read our settlement, our cars will be assigned a value from the September 2015 CBB values based on what our current mileage is. I take this to say that if you have a higher than average amount of KM's for the cars age, you will be put into the CBB value for a car in the 'rough' category, even if your car is cosmetically and mechanically not 'rough'.
If you have lower than average mileage, you would be in the 'clean' category... even if your car is a stinking pile of rusty garbage that you left outside with the windows down every day...
Again, that's just my interpretation though...
If you have lower than average mileage, you would be in the 'clean' category... even if your car is a stinking pile of rusty garbage that you left outside with the windows down every day...
Again, that's just my interpretation though...
But they have to draw the line somewhere. Mileage is the most simple factor of them all. Sure it's not the most fair to everyone, but nonetheless it is a very clear line (as long as it's known what add or deduct for non-average miles ...)
crashtested
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2010
- Location
- Nelson, BC
- TDI
- 2016 Q5 TDI Technik, 2014 GSW CL 6MT (RIP), 2004 Jetta GLS 5MT (sold), 2010 GSW HL 6MT (buy back)
As I said on the FB page... This is better then a 3 ringed circus!!
Which part of the settlement leads you to believe there's the connection between "rough" and high miles and "clean" and low miles? Because the CBB category is a reflection of both, condition and miles.
There's no indication that an inspection of the car will happen at turn in (assuming you are not doing the trade in option). The verbiage in the settlement seems to mimic that of the US deal, in that the vehicle simply needs to be 'operable'.
This too - if actual 'condition' was part of the buyback, you'd have people screaming foul at different dealers who valued the cars differently... and I highly doubt VW wants that in their hands. However, if it were the case, it would likely be better for us, as the dealer rep isn't spending their money, they are spending VW's - and they might value our cars high to get us on their good side
Random thought. If you are over the CBB average mileage you get to use the in service date to figure out your daily average km's and subtract them back to Sept 15.
if you bought a TDI the week before the scandal or close too and currently have say 100k km, you are way over average km. When you count back, you are going to be handing in a car with almost 0 km's. However if you drove around 20k-24k km a yr you will have to use current mileage.
So it seems people that drove above way above average km's, will be in a better position that people that didn't.
if you bought a TDI the week before the scandal or close too and currently have say 100k km, you are way over average km. When you count back, you are going to be handing in a car with almost 0 km's. However if you drove around 20k-24k km a yr you will have to use current mileage.
So it seems people that drove above way above average km's, will be in a better position that people that didn't.
Armby
Veteran Member
You are making a lot of assumptions there. We don't know quantitatively how the mileage factors into the vehicle value until we are given the actual numbers.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
sooochilled
Member
Unsure if any one has brought this up but would an online petition help make a point of anything? It's real easy to set one up!
Sent from phone, excuse typos.
Sent from phone, excuse typos.
There a copy of the actual cbb values floating around on the Facebook group. It shows how to do mileage calculations.
callandertdi
Active member
Any VW contact ?
There is lots of speculation out there but has anyone actually received some type of settlement documents from VW Canada?
There is lots of speculation out there but has anyone actually received some type of settlement documents from VW Canada?
Armby
Veteran Member
They are on the website: www.vwcanadasettlement.ca
Armby
Veteran Member
Yes there is a copy that someone posted on Facebook. That won't legally bind VW.
The agreement has vague wording on how the adjustment for mileage to sept 2015 will work that is not enough detail to actually calculate the Vehicle Value. The CBB has a high and low value to account for condition but condition is not a factor in the valuation according to the agreement. Which value will we get: high or low?
The only provision in the published "agreement" for owners to find out the vehicle value is at 20 days before your buy back appointment. Too late to (a) opt-out or even (b) change your settlement choice (Buy-back vs trade-in vs fix).
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