Dieselgate, The Canadian Edition

FVWVWF

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
Sold - 2012 TDI Highline Manual
Hey Guys,

My dad has an appointment to turn in his 2010 GSW On July 11th. His vehicle requires emission testing and registration by the end of July, so he would like to get rid of it on July 11th and wait for the 2018 GSW that he put a deposit on. Ricepoint tells him that it should not be an issue and he should still get the tax credit on the value of the trade in. However, the dealer is telling us that they will not be able to give us the tax credit. The 2018s are supposed to arrive early September, so it's not that long of a wait. Does anyone have a clear idea of how it should work. Sorry i don't have time to read through all the pages to find out if it was mentioned before.
Tell the current dealer to stuff himself.
The car's Fair Market Value credit is what the dealer must take towards the new car as a "tax credit". I suggest you print out the amount from your letter of offer of whatever you have it on...and present it to the dealer before finalizing your purchase.
 

ecode

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Location
Toronto
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
VW Canada sent me an email regarding my 2013 Passat TDi and stated that a fix should be available later this month. However, I did the buyout last week and would have not been interested in it regardless. Mine is a gen 2. Fix was approved in the USA on May 19th 2017. This is for 2012 to 2014 Passat automatics.
Yes, that is known and released information.

OP said he had a Jetta.... which would be Gen1, and there is nothing public about the fix released for Gen1 cars...
 

crashtested

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Location
Nelson, BC
TDI
2016 Q5 TDI Technik, 2014 GSW CL 6MT (RIP), 2004 Jetta GLS 5MT (sold), 2010 GSW HL 6MT (buy back)
Tell the current dealer to stuff himself.
The car's Fair Market Value credit is what the dealer must take towards the new car as a "tax credit". I suggest you print out the amount from your letter of offer of whatever you have it on...and present it to the dealer before finalizing your purchase.
:confused:

FMV the day of purchase... It diminishes with time - FMV today is NOT going to be the same $$ amount in Sept.

You can't expect a dealer is going to take a trade-in today for a car that will be delivered in Sept, or maybe I'm wrong.
 
Last edited:

dcolaco

New member
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Location
Toronto
TDI
2010 Golf Sportwagen
Tell the current dealer to stuff himself.
The car's Fair Market Value credit is what the dealer must take towards the new car as a "tax credit". I suggest you print out the amount from your letter of offer of whatever you have it on...and present it to the dealer before finalizing your purchase.
So I called a couple other dealers this morning to confirm this and they said that if the vehicle you are picking up is not available at the time of trade in, you cannot make use of the tax credit.
 
Last edited:

FVWVWF

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
Sold - 2012 TDI Highline Manual
:confused:

FMV the day of purchase... It diminishes with time - FMV today is NOT going to be the same $$ amount in Sept.

You can't expect a dealer is going to take a trade-in today for a car that will be delivered in Sept, or maybe I'm wrong.
Yes it diminishes but it gives the dealer a # to work with. When I put a deposit down and he provided me with the basic numbers, he wrote in there that the FMV is subject to change on trade in day. From the time I have put down a deposit on a car to the time I have received my letter of offer...the amount changed by $100. I've informed the dealer and it will be all finalized on the trade in day.
 

FVWVWF

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
Sold - 2012 TDI Highline Manual
So I called a couple other dealers this morning to confirm this and they said that if the vehicle you are picking up is not available at the time of trade in, you cannot make use of the tax credit.
That could be possible. There's people on here who havent set their turn in date yet because their vehicle is not available yet. Id suggest canceling your appt and rescheduling it for Sept.
I didnt realize you were asking about this process on a car that is NOT available yet and completing your buyback/trade in prior to that.
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
Well it's all over. From the time we entered the dealership until we had our cheque in hand was exactly 8 minutes.



Out with the old:



And in with the new:



The TDI was returned on winter steelies with 10 y.o. OEM VW Passat wheel covers that had broken clips. Reduced clutter in the garage :p

Dealer said the TDI would be going to the junkyard (aka "recycling").
 

llivingstone

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Location
Toronto
TDI
2012 Golf Sportwagen
Accident Damaged Sportwagen

Hi TDI Club,
I'm looking for some legal opinion and some regular opinion on this situation.
This is in Ontario, Canada and all in CAD.
Our 2012 6MT GSW was rear-ended last week. The collision shop estimated $8500 in repairs. The adjuster has stated that the car is repairable and not a total loss and agreed to repairs at $8.5k. He also said the car would not be "branded". At this point I have put a hold on starting repairs and spoke to the adjuster about a cash settlement.
Our buyback offer is ~$20k including $5250 in punitive.
Everything I'm reading says I should be able to drive the car in to the dealer and take the full amount even though the trunk lid is pushed in and won't open and the bumper cover has been taken off for repair estimates. Mechanically nothing is wrong with the car. Tail light cover on one side is gone so you would get a ticket for broken tail light. That's it.
Is this possible to take the insurance money and the buyback and walk away with ~$28k? Sounds too good to be true.
Second question, would you do the buyback or get the car fixed and wait for an emissions fix? I just can't find anything like our car in the market for the same price range. (BMW 328d Wagon looks cool but $$$$).
Thanks for the help.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6m95xtdf3tva62j/20170622_073130.jpg?dl=0
 
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richyrich

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Location
Ontario
TDI
2014 Touareg, 2015 Sportwagon (gone to the big emissions-lot in the sky)
Well it's all over. From the time we entered the dealership until we had our cheque in hand was exactly 8 minutes.
8 mins?? Damn Ricepoint - they're too fast! How the heck are we supposed to have material to keep complaining about on here when they're so damn efficient in this bit of the process!?!?
 

dsldub

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Location
Ontario
TDI
2010 Wagon TDI
There's people on here who havent set their turn in date yet because their vehicle is not available yet. Id suggest canceling your appt and rescheduling it for Sept.
That's where I'm at now, scheduled turn in date as of mid-September for now, I may change it to later depending on when new '18s come in.
 

richyrich

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Location
Ontario
TDI
2014 Touareg, 2015 Sportwagon (gone to the big emissions-lot in the sky)
Hi TDI Club,
I'm looking for some legal opinion and some regular opinion on this situation.
This is in Ontario, Canada and all in CAD.
Our 2012 6MT GSW was rear-ended last week. The collision shop estimated $8500 in repairs. The adjuster has stated that the car is repairable and not a total loss and agreed to repairs at $8.5k. He also said the car would not be "branded". At this point I have put a hold on starting repairs and spoke to the adjuster about a cash settlement.
Our buyback offer is ~$20k including $5250 in punitive.
Everything I'm reading says I should be able to drive the car in to the dealer and take the full amount even though the trunk lid is pushed in and won't open and the bumper cover has been taken off for repair estimates. Mechanically nothing is wrong with the car. Tail light cover on one side is gone so you would get a ticket for broken tail light. That's it.
Is this possible to take the insurance money and the buyback and walk away with ~$28k? Sounds too good to be true.
Second question, would you do the buyback or get the car fixed and wait for an emissions fix? I just can't find anything like our car in the market for the same price range. (BMW 328d Wagon looks cool but $$$$).
Thanks for the help.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6m95xtdf3tva62j/20170622_073130.jpg?dl=0
Go check the detail of the buyback material you received. I'm pretty sure it just states that the car can drive in under it's own power, but you should go check.

On the insurance front, I'm pretty sure that the insurance company will direct you to an approved repairer and pay them directly when the work is complete, not send you a cheque, so I don't see how you'd end up with the $8.5k. If they are willing to send you a cheque, just make sure it's not considered fraud if you don't actually get it repaired - if anything just ask them. Also consider your claims record - going through with the claim WILL be a black mark on your insurance record (don't believe the "claims protection" rubbish that only applies to that company)...
 

crashtested

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Location
Nelson, BC
TDI
2016 Q5 TDI Technik, 2014 GSW CL 6MT (RIP), 2004 Jetta GLS 5MT (sold), 2010 GSW HL 6MT (buy back)
Yes it diminishes but it gives the dealer a # to work with. When I put a deposit down and he provided me with the basic numbers, he wrote in there that the FMV is subject to change on trade in day. From the time I have put down a deposit on a car to the time I have received my letter of offer...the amount changed by $100. I've informed the dealer and it will be all finalized on the trade in day.
No pricing was/is yet available when we ordered our 2nd 2018 Alltrack.

FMV was $7427 on May 27 (signed offer letter) - Today with an estimated return date of Sept 23 it has dropped to $7151 = $276
 

llivingstone

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Location
Toronto
TDI
2012 Golf Sportwagen
Go check the detail of the buyback material you received. I'm pretty sure it just states that the car can drive in under it's own power, but you should go check.
On the insurance front, I'm pretty sure that the insurance company will direct you to an approved repairer and pay them directly when the work is complete, not send you a cheque, so I don't see how you'd end up with the $8.5k. If they are willing to send you a cheque, just make sure it's not considered fraud if you don't actually get it repaired - if anything just ask them. Also consider your claims record - going through with the claim WILL be a black mark on your insurance record (don't believe the "claims protection" rubbish that only applies to that company)...
I'm being totally upfront with the adjuster about the buyback. He doesn't care if they settle with a repair or with a cheque. What you do with the car after is up to you, they have fulfilled their policy obligations. And the claim is going through regardless since it was a rear-end and there are multiple drivers/claims. Thankfully when you get rear-ended you are not considered "at fault" for the claim. This is my understanding.
 

ecode

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Location
Toronto
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
Hi TDI Club,
I'm looking for some legal opinion and some regular opinion on this situation.
This is in Ontario, Canada and all in CAD.
Our 2012 6MT GSW was rear-ended last week. The collision shop estimated $8500 in repairs. The adjuster has stated that the car is repairable and not a total loss and agreed to repairs at $8.5k. He also said the car would not be "branded". At this point I have put a hold on starting repairs and spoke to the adjuster about a cash settlement.
Our buyback offer is ~$20k including $5250 in punitive.
Everything I'm reading says I should be able to drive the car in to the dealer and take the full amount even though the trunk lid is pushed in and won't open and the bumper cover has been taken off for repair estimates. Mechanically nothing is wrong with the car. Tail light cover on one side is gone so you would get a ticket for broken tail light. That's it.
Is this possible to take the insurance money and the buyback and walk away with ~$28k? Sounds too good to be true.
Second question, would you do the buyback or get the car fixed and wait for an emissions fix? I just can't find anything like our car in the market for the same price range. (BMW 328d Wagon looks cool but $$$$).
Thanks for the help.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6m95xtdf3tva62j/20170622_073130.jpg?dl=0
Go check the detail of the buyback material you received. I'm pretty sure it just states that the car can drive in under it's own power, but you should go check.
On the insurance front, I'm pretty sure that the insurance company will direct you to an approved repairer and pay them directly when the work is complete, not send you a cheque, so I don't see how you'd end up with the $8.5k. If they are willing to send you a cheque, just make sure it's not considered fraud if you don't actually get it repaired - if anything just ask them. Also consider your claims record - going through with the claim WILL be a black mark on your insurance record (don't believe the "claims protection" rubbish that only applies to that company)...
Rear end collisions don't raise YOUR rates. If you are 100% not at fault, insurance can't touch you.

I'm being totally upfront with the adjuster about the buyback. He doesn't care if they settle with a repair or with a cheque. What you do with the car after is up to you, they have fulfilled their policy obligations. And the claim is going through regardless since it was a rear-end and there are multiple drivers/claims. Thankfully when you get rear-ended you are not considered "at fault" for the claim. This is my understanding.
Bingo. The insurance payment is 100% independent of the fix. YOU pay for teh insurance, so insurance makes YOU whole again - whether YOU decide that you need the car fixed to make YOU whole again is up to YOU.
Hence, you just won the lottery.

1. Take the $8.5K, put it in the bank.
2. Take the VW buyback (which will in NO way be reduced due to the accident), put it in the bank.
3. ....??
4. Profit

Congratulations.
 

crashtested

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Location
Nelson, BC
TDI
2016 Q5 TDI Technik, 2014 GSW CL 6MT (RIP), 2004 Jetta GLS 5MT (sold), 2010 GSW HL 6MT (buy back)
Rear end collisions don't raise YOUR rates. If you are 100% not at fault, insurance can't touch you.
Bingo. The insurance payment is 100% independent of the fix. YOU pay for teh insurance, so insurance makes YOU whole again - whether YOU decide that you need the car fixed to make YOU whole again is up to YOU.
Hence, you just won the lottery.
1. Take the $8.5K, put it in the bank.
2. Take the VW buyback (which will in NO way be reduced due to the accident), put it in the bank.
3. ....??
4. Profit
Congratulations.
What world do you live in where the insurance company tosses you a cheque without getting the repair done? :rolleyes:

Auto insurance protects you against financial loss if you have an accident. ... You agree to pay the premium and the insurance company agrees to pay your losses as defined in your policy. Auto insurance provides property, liability and medical coverage:
If you choose to continued to drive it without getting a fix then there is no loss, no cheque.
 
Last edited:

llivingstone

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Location
Toronto
TDI
2012 Golf Sportwagen
What world do you live in where the insurance company tosses you a cheque without getting the repair done? :rolleyes:

If you choose to continued to drive it without getting a fix then there is no loss, no cheque.
If he settles the claim, its settled, it doesn't matter if you fix it or not. He has met his obligation under the collision policy.

Second point is moot, but for sake of argument the loss would potentially be in resale value.
 

ecode

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Location
Toronto
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
What world do you live in where the insurance company tosses you a cheque without getting the repair done? :rolleyes:
North America?

Do a real quick search on keeping the check and not repairing... every single result will tell you it's 100% legal.

The insurance obligation is to pay YOU for the damages they found. What you do with the money is up to YOU. YOU suffered the loss to your property.

Where you may run into issues is if you have a lien on the car, you may be required to fix the car due to that (your bank may have a statement in your car loan that states you need x coverage and must repair damage). You can also run into an issue if you were to have another accident after not repairing the car - in that case, the insurance company would likely start with a reduced value of the car due to the original un-repaired accident.
 

llivingstone

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Location
Toronto
TDI
2012 Golf Sportwagen
Rear end collisions don't raise YOUR rates. If you are 100% not at fault, insurance can't touch you.
Bingo. The insurance payment is 100% independent of the fix. YOU pay for teh insurance, so insurance makes YOU whole again - whether YOU decide that you need the car fixed to make YOU whole again is up to YOU.
Hence, you just won the lottery.
1. Take the $8.5K, put it in the bank.
2. Take the VW buyback (which will in NO way be reduced due to the accident), put it in the bank.
3. ....??
4. Profit
Congratulations.
So would you take the money and run? Or fix collision damage and wait for emissions fix?
 

crashtested

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Location
Nelson, BC
TDI
2016 Q5 TDI Technik, 2014 GSW CL 6MT (RIP), 2004 Jetta GLS 5MT (sold), 2010 GSW HL 6MT (buy back)
North America?
Do a real quick search on keeping the check and not repairing... every single result will tell you it's 100% legal.
The insurance obligation is to pay YOU for the damages they found. What you do with the money is up to YOU. YOU suffered the loss to your property.
Where you may run into issues is if you have a lien on the car, you may be required to fix the car due to that (your bank may have a statement in your car loan that states you need x coverage and must repair damage). You can also run into an issue if you were to have another accident after not repairing the car - in that case, the insurance company would likely start with a reduced value of the car due to the original un-repaired accident.
Hmm interesting. Provincial insurance; ICBC and they pay the shops here directly, you never seen $$ unless it's a write off.
 

ecode

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Location
Toronto
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
So would you take the money and run? Or fix collision damage and wait for emissions fix?
The accident damage, so long as it doesn't affect driveability, has zero effect on the settlement options.

Hmm interesting. Provincial insurance; ICBC and they pay the shops here directly, you never seen $$ unless it's a write off.
ICBC may be different since its a provincial program (same for La Belle province too).
 

llivingstone

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Location
Toronto
TDI
2012 Golf Sportwagen
The accident damage, so long as it doesn't affect driveability, has zero effect on the settlement options.
I'm just wondering what route you would go based on the available options. $28k is a lot of money but I can't find a comparable car, new, for that money so I'm considering going for the collision fix and then emissions fix (if approved) with the $5250 punitive.
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
The accident damage, so long as it doesn't affect driveability, has zero effect on the settlement options.
ICBC may be different since its a provincial program (same for La Belle province too).
In Quebec, collision damage is not a provincial program, it is the bailiwick of private insurance companies. It is "no fault" in the sense that it is your own company that pays the damage regardless of who is at fault; however if you're not at fault your deductible is waived and in principle it doesn't affect rates. The deductible is calculated at the same percentage as the degree of fault you have.

Private insurance also handles 3d party liability.

The part covered by the government in Quebec is personal injury/death. The government insurance pays, and the payout is based on government scales. You cannot sue for more money. It pays for anyone injured in a traffic accident, whether a licensed driver or not (i.e. passengers, pedestrians, cyclists). There will be some litigation, for example on determining degrees of handicap, or when a person is fit to return to work, that sort of thing. But if the program says a broken arm is $x, you can't sue for more than $x.
 

FVWVWF

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
Sold - 2012 TDI Highline Manual
I'm just wondering what route you would go based on the available options. $28k is a lot of money but I can't find a comparable car, new, for that money so I'm considering going for the collision fix and then emissions fix (if approved) with the $5250 punitive.
Take the cash and run.
There may never be a fix for 2012....so who knows how it will affect long term maintenance and registration of the car. (although should have no issues, nothing is guaranteed)
$28K...you can buy a 2017 TSI for that...with twice the toys that a 2012 has.
Thats what I would do.
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
I'm just wondering what route you would go based on the available options. $28k is a lot of money but I can't find a comparable car, new, for that money so I'm considering going for the collision fix and then emissions fix (if approved) with the $5250 punitive.
At this stage the emission fix is highly hypothetical. First-generation cars may never have an approved fix, and if they do, we have no idea about future reliability/drivability.

I don't how how well equipped your car is but we just replaced our TDI with a TSI wagon, 5-speed manual. It lists for $25,590 freight/PDI included. It is a base Trendline with optional connectivity+ package, and as far as I'm concerned it's as well equipped as our previous Comfortline TDI. The only thing the TDI had more than the TSI was fog lights. The TSI has Apple CarPlay, a much nicer interior, and everything else needed on a car IMHO (air, cruise, electric locks/windows). It has a 110v power outlet in the trunk which our TDI did not, and a bunch of other nice little touches that come with a newer platform.

Even though we ended up out of pocket just under $7k when all was factored in, that's a hell of a deal for 4-1/2 years depreciation! New car, fresh warranty... and the TSI still gets great fuel consumption.
 

llivingstone

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Location
Toronto
TDI
2012 Golf Sportwagen
Take the cash and run.
There may never be a fix for 2012....so who knows how it will affect long term maintenance and registration of the car. (although should have no issues, nothing is guaranteed)
$28K...you can buy a 2017 TSI for that...with twice the toys that a 2012 has.
Thats what I would do.
That's sort of the way I was leaning. How often do you get to buy a car for $31k and get $28k for it 5yrs and 172,000km later? I just really like the performance, handling, utility and mileage of the GSW TDI and nothing else available is like it. Thanks for the responses.
 

ecode

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Location
Toronto
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
Hmm interesting. Provincial insurance; ICBC and they pay the shops here directly, you never seen $$ unless it's a write off.
Doing some digging, ICBC calls it a 'cash settlement' and other insurers might as well. You may not get as much as what their estimate to fix is, but you can definitely get cash instead of a fix.
 

ecode

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Location
Toronto
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
That's sort of the way I was leaning. How often do you get to buy a car for $31k and get $28k for it 5yrs and 172,000km later? I just really like the performance, handling, utility and mileage of the GSW TDI and nothing else available is like it. Thanks for the responses.
How are you getting $28k for a 2012 with that much mileage? Even after the 'damages' payment....
 

ecode

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Location
Toronto
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
From the collision policy about $8.5k. From VW $5250 punitive + $14.5k buyback for the vehicle.
Ooooo... gotcha.

Of course, you can't credit the settlement for all of that... getting in the luckiest of accidents did a lot of the work :)

Imagine the car behind you hitting a foot to the left or right and destroying the wheel well and making the car undrivable... then you'd have to fix it in order to get the settlement...
 

Lucsar

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
Ontario
TDI
Returned to VW: 2015 Passat Highline DSG EarlyLease Termination
Well it's all over. From the time we entered the dealership until we had our cheque in hand was exactly 8 minutes.



Out with the old:



And in with the new:



The TDI was returned on winter steelies with 10 y.o. OEM VW Passat wheel covers that had broken clips. Reduced clutter in the garage :p

Dealer said the TDI would be going to the junkyard (aka "recycling").
Congrats !!! Looks great...glad it went well for you. I hope I can be so lucky..
 
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