dieselgate cenareo

[der]

I have a 2015 passat under warranty. I took it in the dealer bc the check engine light was on and the heater was not heating well. The check engine light was on. I stopped by an auto parts shop to use their test code to see what codes were showing up. So when I got to the dealer literally a few min later the check engine light was cleared by the code reader. He checked it out and said there were no codes and it heated fine. I took it back and still crappy heat - fogged up the car and was freezing my a off. Then a week later it blows a hose right off the egr. Had to tow it from Richmond to SC after two days in a hotel. Same dealer says it overheated and blew off the hose and will not be covered under the emissions warranty bc no check engine light came on. So I talked to a friend that said the heater core, egr and overheating are all related to the modifications they did on this particular engine bc it makes them overheat and clogg up. Dealer flushed the system, fixed the hose and test drove it. He now says the heater does not work. So I said ok you broke my heater then bc you claimed it worked perfectly fine last week when I took it in for a heater issue. He now tells me nothing will be covered under the emissions warranty bc there were no codes coming up. I asked why are there no codes if the heater core is obviously bad. Got a lot of double talk. At any rate I called VOA to complain. Waiting to hear. My question is, this cenareo happens again and agin with this engine due to the modifications. Can anyone explain to me why or what is going on with the heater core, egr and overheating so I can understand?

Thanks

 

[oilhammer]

The scenario is that the heater core gets its coolant flow after the EGR cooler, and the coolant gets super heated passing through the exhaust to the point that the liquid boils and the additives in it drop out of suspension and solidify. Which clogs up the heater core. Quite common. And when this happens, a bad hot spot forms on that loop, causing an air pocket, and the whole cooling system cannot work correctly. In some cases, it can also clog up the vent hose assembly on top of the engine, and steam/pressure starts to build up and hoses get superheated and explode.

That car has one of THE most complicated cooling systems ever... it is as bad as some of the hybrids. Three coolant pumps, two radiators, all kinds of stuff to go wrong.

 

[MrCypherr]

Surprisingly, I havent really seen the heater cores go faulty/clog up on the '15 diesels. Thankfully, its just been the typical CKRAs.

 

[T1MMBOJONES]

I thought a cenareo might be a model similar to a scirocco or corrado....

 

[der]

The scenario is that the heater core gets its coolant flow after the EGR cooler, and the coolant gets super heated passing through the exhaust to the point that the liquid boils and the additives in it drop out of suspension and solidify. Which clogs up the heater core. Quite common. And when this happens, a bad hot spot forms on that loop, causing an air pocket, and the whole cooling system cannot work correctly. In some cases, it can also clog up the vent hose assembly on top of the engine, and steam/pressure starts to build up and hoses get superheated and explode.

That car has one of THE most complicated cooling systems ever... it is as bad as some of the hybrids. Three coolant pumps, two radiators, all kinds of stuff to go wrong.

ok thanks for the clarification. Is there any obvious thing I can look for and point out to try to get coverage on it with the extended warranty? They are denying it bc I had cleared the check engine light right before taking it in to see what was wrong and the dealer tells me no codes are coming up so they can not get it covered even though after he fixed the broken hose and flushed it the heated completely stopped working. Can the EGR be clogged without a code? How would I tell?

 

[MrCypherr]

If you start taking things apart, then you are at a high risk of them not covering anything because they will say "oh how do we know that you didnt mess anything up" etc, If the EGR is clogged, the code will come back pretty quickly. Especially if it tries to regen or of the valves are trying to operate and not enough flow is present.

 

[der]

If you start taking things apart, then you are at a high risk of them not covering anything because they will say "oh how do we know that you didnt mess anything up" etc, If the EGR is clogged, the code will come back pretty quickly. Especially if it tries to regen or of the valves are trying to operate and not enough flow is present.

I wonder why the heater core did not come back with a code the first time I took it or the second when it was not working at all. Would you say most likely the heater went bad bc he egr is clogged? The hose and clamp blew off the egr.

 

[der]

Surprisingly, I havent really seen the heater cores go faulty/clog up on the '15 diesels. Thankfully, its just been the typical CKRAs.

and what is a ckra?

 

[oilhammer]

CKRA is the engine code for the 2012-14 NMS Passat TDI, yours is a CVCA, which is completely different.

 

[oilhammer]

It is common for them to flag an EGR cooler inefficiency DTC, P2457. There's a TSB about it, but it only applies to the CKRA cars. Yet the CVCAs can have the same problem.

80-16-01 - No Heat from Passenger Side Cabin – Heater Core Restricted (CKRA Diesel only) (nhtsa.gov)

 

[der]

thanks for the link and info - so this points more to the emissions system I think? So they were able to deny that bc mine is a cxca and therefore did not throw a code for the egr? Is this correct?

 

[oilhammer]

You and me and the internet can speculate all we want, the manufacturer is going to want to dictate what is or is not going to be a coverable item under the warranty.

Personally, I think even though the 2015 NMS' engine is different than the 2012-14, the underlying problem is the same, and it is more or less caused by the same thing (far too aggressive low pressure EGR duty cycle, and not enough EGR cooler volume for a more 'gentle' transfer of heat).

You can read here as to what is covered:

VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_Gen3_Final.pdf (vwdiesellookup.com)

To me, this part:

"The emissions system warranty shall cover the following parts or systems:  The entire exhaust after treatment system, including the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, the Diesel Particulate Filter, the Selective Catalytic Reduction converter, the dosing injector and other Diesel Exhaust Fluid system components, the exhaust flap, and all sensors and actuators  The entire fuel system, including fuel pumps, high pressure fuel rail, fuel injectors, vibration damper, pressure control valve and all sensors and actuators  The EGR system, including EGR valves, EGR cooler, EGR filter, EGR temperature sensor, all related hoses and pipes, and all sensors and actuators  The turbocharger, including the turbocharger damper  The On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system, including SCR DEF quality sensor, and any malfunctions detected by the OBD systems other than those related to the transmission. Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train . The extended emissions warranty includes parts, labor, and applicable taxes. The extended emissions warranty shall not void or supersede any existing warranty. Conflicts concerning the warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer."

would include within it anything and everything related to the engine's cooling system, since that is all integral to the emissions compliance systems and the engine itself (which I put in bold).

So, to me, anything that would cause the engine to overheat aside from some outside influence (like a fat chick threw her dress in front of the car and it completely blocked off the radiators, or you crashed into a fat chick because you're eyes suddenly decided to jump out of your head at the sight of it all and could no longer see to drive) should be a coverable item.

But again, that's me. I do not make those decisions.

 

[MrCypherr]

This also comes down to wiring as well with related items. They say anything that basically causes an engine light should be covered but then its "oh only certain things under a certain condition, blah blah blah". But as outlined, anything EGR related should be covered. Now, usually there must be a fault that goes along with it. If there isnt, then its hard to get anything covered unless followed by a VTA ticket and findings saying that this is the issue.

 

[oilhammer]

I had a customer ping-ponging back and forth to a dealer refusing to cover the DEF line.... when it clearly says in that document that the ENTIRE SCR system is covered. Literally every component from the blue cap all the way to the NOx adsorber, and everything in between. It isn't hard to read. They finally covered his repair. But it took FAR too long to fight for it. Ridiculous.

 

[MrCypherr]

Whenever we see even the line leaking, we just take a picture and replace. Theres no question. Its very clear that some dealers dont want to do the work if it doesnt pay well. Not un-common for that to happen.

 

[der]

it clearly states egr cooler and all related pipes so if a pipe blows off the cooler that should be covered and that is where it blew the off on my car but they will not cover it nor the clogged heat core bc no codes came up for the egr. Can the egr be defective without a code? I had the car in weeks before telling them the heater was not working right but they said they tested it and since there were no codes it was working properly even though it was freezing cold in the car. Then two weeks later it blows the hose and I am stranded on I95.

 

[der]

thanks for the link and info - so this points more to the emissions system I think? So they were able to deny that bc mine is a cxca and therefore did not throw a code for the egr? Is this correct?

Is this saying it may not throw a code bc it is a cxca even though there is a problem?

 

[der]

It is common for them to flag an EGR cooler inefficiency DTC, P2457. There's a TSB about it, but it only applies to the CKRA cars. Yet the CVCAs can have the same problem.

80-16-01 - No Heat from Passenger Side Cabin – Heater Core Restricted (CKRA Diesel only) (nhtsa.gov)
[/Q
what does vcvca stand for? Is this saying it may not throw a code bc it is a cxca even though there is a problem?

 

[der]

The scenario is that the heater core gets its coolant flow after the EGR cooler, and the coolant gets super heated passing through the exhaust to the point that the liquid boils and the additives in it drop out of suspension and solidify. Which clogs up the heater core. Quite common. And when this happens, a bad hot spot forms on that loop, causing an air pocket, and the whole cooling system cannot work correctly. In some cases, it can also clog up the vent hose assembly on top of the engine, and steam/pressure starts to build up and hoses get superheated and explode.

That car has one of THE most complicated cooling systems ever... it is as bad as some of the hybrids. Three coolant pumps, two radiators, all kinds of stuff to go wrong.

so would it not be worth deleting it?

 

[MrCypherr]

Well, if you delete the vehicle, you wouldnt have the coolant breaking apart and clogging the system since there wouldnt be an EGR cooler and regens heating it up.

If there is no code, technically they cant push anything through warranty, that is correct but if there is no heat due to the EGR cooler/heater core, then I believe it they can still do the heater core under warranty if they diag it being that.

Also, there is no CXCA TDI engine Im pretty sure. CXCA is a GTI 2.0T engine. So You either have the CRUA or CVCA.

 

[der]

Well I guess I should not have done a code check at autozone before brining it and I guess it did not strore it in the computer. I have the code print out report but they wont accept it. VW tells me there is no one else there I can speak to. Do you know if there is any higher up person or procedure if they wont budge?

 

[MrCypherr]

The only code print out report they will accept is from a VW dealership. Im assuming they wont accept any other code report or print out from a parts store cause its not a VW authorized repair shop.