Diesel shortage.

[[486]]

Lithium iron phosphate is currently the best battery chemistry for power storage on a mass scale, imo. No rare earth elements required there. Lithium, iron, phosphorous, and graphite are all pretty abundant, actually.

Huh wonder why people aren't using them then, they've been around long enough that I wanna say I saw them on a mythbusters episode...

The typical li-ion batteries in cars and power tools and cell phones and whatever else got some fancy stuff in them. There was some outrage on the electric f150 about the test mules given out to reviewers having had 'the expensive batteries' and the production models getting the iron phosphate ones or something similar where they were of a lower energy density and lower discharge/charge rate...

 

[ToxicDoc]

Irrelevant. Putin ain't going after oil, either. So Why are we so interested in "saving" Ukraine?

Because we don't want another USSR.

 

[nwdiver]

'keep our promises'
you mean that we'll be doing something about that nordstream pipeline, or the promises to end the keystone pipeline and roll back US oil independence?

More of what we're addicted to isn't the solution to our addiction. We're using ~20M bbl/day ~0.5M from KXL isn't going to help much and would have jeopardized the most important aquifer in the US. Reducing consumption by 0.5M bbl/day is a lot cheaper, easier and safer.

Isn't this a 'boot straps' country? I got my independence ~10 years ago. I helped a friend get his last summer. SUPER easy. Will pay for itself in ~5 years. Go get yours Nothing sweeter than skipping the $5 a fill-up station and filling up for free from your roof at home

 

[turbobrick240]

Huh wonder why people aren't using them then, they've been around long enough that I wanna say I saw them on a mythbusters episode...

The typical li-ion batteries in cars and power tools and cell phones and whatever else got some fancy stuff in them. There was some outrage on the electric f150 about the test mules given out to reviewers having had 'the expensive batteries' and the production models getting the iron phosphate ones or something similar where they were of a lower energy density and lower discharge/charge rate...

People are using LFP batteries. Lots of them. They're actually energy dense enough now that they're finding widespread use in EVs. But for stationary storage, energy density is a fairly low priority. Cost and cycle life are far more important. Now that the Chinese patents on the LFP chemistry have largely expired, you can expect to see a substantial LFP manufacturing industry become established in the US in the coming years.

 

[Tin Man]

'keep our promises'
you mean that we'll be doing something about that nordstream pipeline, or the promises to end the keystone pipeline and roll back US oil independence?

No excuse for ignorance: we promised Ukraine to guarantee their sovereignty when they gave away their nukes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

 

[Jr mason]

Where did I suggest it drives ALL war? It drives war. What percentage of war is acceptable? And the Ukraine conflict is absolutely funded by oil. If not for oil revenue it's ~impossible for Ruzzia to have invaded and probably would have been impossible for Putin to have maintained an autocracy.

Is smoking not bad because some lung cancer isn't caused by smoking?

It is ironic that you're questioning the connection of oil and war on a 'diesel shortage' thread when the shortage is the result of a war funded by oil

You remind me of the game we used to play as kids. Put your forehead on the end of a baseball bat and spin in circles until you can't, and try to run like hell in a (not so straight) line.
Your making yourself so dizzy you dun forgot where ya came from.

A quick reminder of where this all started.

No, I'm 'assuming' it's a lot cheaper to have your military at home than half-way around the world protecting an increasingly scarce supply of oil.

You still haven't backed this up, nor shown how anything would ever change if we stopped using oil tomorrow. But it's amusing watching you chase your tail.

You wanna talk irony. You propose we rid ourselves of oil to become more independent. Meanwhile, China accounts for 80% of the world's solar panel production and provides over 90% of the elements needed to make panels are sourced from there. .
This number has been relatively flat for a decade despite the increase in production of panels, and its about to get worse thanks to our Bozo in Chief who just twisted the dagger in local manufacturing before pulling out.

How Biden Gave China The Solar Industry

An Alabama-based solar panel manufacturer is closing down. Why? Check out what Biden did to Trump's solar safeguards for clues.

www.forbes.com

At least with oil and gas we have the ability to pull it out of the ground, refine it, and sell it iin house if SHTF and the world economy collapsed.
Or another major WW, which is very possible with the likes of Putin and Xi at the helm.

At least we (USA) don't rely on Russia for energy. But We're grossly relying on (Xi) to send us their junk solar equipment.

Yeah, soooo much better!

 

[nwdiver]

You still haven't backed this up, nor shown how anything would ever change if we stopped using oil tomorrow. But it's amusing watching you chase your tail.

.... how .... how is this not obvious to you? Have you not studied ANY history??? Why else would the US and UK instigate a coup against a democratic government? Why else would we have a nearly permanent presence in the Persian Gulf for the past ~40 years to ensure shipping thru the strait of Hormuz isn't interrupted? You think diesel is in short supply now, it would be ~10x worse if Iran blocked off that strait. But... if we reduced our consumption by 50% why would we care if supply dropped by ~20%?

Our dependence on China for solar is based on politics. Our dependence on Ruzzia and Saudi Arabia for oil is based on geology. We can change one... not the other, not without reducing our use of oil. We could be a global leader in manufacturing renewables if we supported it with government funding just like China and Germany did. But sadly no amount of subsidies is going to increase the amount of oil under our feet. And if China stops sending us more solar the panels we have still work.... doesn't really work that way with oil. A pallet of solar panels will provide >700,000kWh over its life vs ~2 bbl of oil which provide < 1,000kWh of useful energy over its life.

 

[[486]]

No excuse for ignorance: we promised Ukraine to guarantee their sovereignty when they gave away their nukes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

We also made promises that nato wouldn't expand eastwords from where it was in '91. :\

 

[Jr mason]

Our dependence on China for solar is based on politics. Our dependence on Ruzzia and Saudi Arabia for oil is based on geology. We can change one... not the other, not without reducing our use of oil. We could be a global leader in manufacturing renewables if we supported it with government funding just like China and Germany did. But sadly no amount of subsidies is going to increase the amount of oil under our feet. And if China stops sending us more solar the panels we have still work.... doesn't really work that way with oil.

Wrong, but nice try. We CAN produce enough to be self reliant. We CAN refine enough to be self reliant. We aren't because, aside from playing on a global market our administration has manufacturered a shortage. When the talking heads stand up on the world stage and tell all the refiners their days are numbered, We all get to pay the price. There is zero physical shortage of oil here or anywhere in the world. We export almost 75% of our LNG. Think about that for a minute.

So back to the solar panels. You don't think the oil games are political? Of course they are. BUT we still have the infrastructure right here on our soil. From well to tank. We have almost no ability to build solar panels from scratch. Maybe a few percent of what we need? That's being generous. China controls the Polysilicon market lock and key. If you think our politicians have any plans to change this your sadly mistaken. We're putting ourselves at a far greater risk with "green energy" manufacturing than oil has ever put us.

China's share of world's polysilicon production grows from 30% to 80% in just one decade

German-based polysilicon producer Wacker Chemie has fallen to fourth place in the list of the world's top polysilicon firms, which means the Top 3

www.solarpowerworldonline.com

 

[nwdiver]

We also made promises that nato wouldn't expand eastwords from where it was in '91. :\

Stop falling for Ruzzian propaganda.

'Negotiations over NRFA had directly confronted the issue of expansion. At preliminary bilateral talks in Helsinki in March 1997, Clinton refused to respond to Yeltsin’s call for binding restrictions on the establishment of NATO security infrastructure in new member states. Yeltsin’s attempt to introduce a Russian veto into the Act – to be directed against a future round of expansion in the ex-Soviet republics, ‘particularly Ukraine’ – also failed.'

 

[nwdiver]

Wrong, but nice try. We CAN produce enough to be self reliant.

Maybe the US but not the 'West'. Should we self-isolate and stop selling diesel and gas to the EU? We tried isolationism 90 years ago. Go read about how well that worked out. My point is that we need to stop buying oil from countries that invade neighbors and murder journalists in their embassies. That cuts global supply by ~50%. So global consumption needs to drop by at least ~50%.

Solar panels primarily need two things. Silicon and Aluminum. ~Everyone has both in great abundance, they're literally the two most common things on Earth not a gas at room temperature. We just need to build more infrastructure to mine and refine it. Sadly the US has this ideological lunacy that the proper role of government is to do nothing. The German and PRC governments poured Billons into becoming leaders in solar manufacturing and it worked. Time to start taking some lessons from history. Sunlight is orders and orders and orders and orders of magnitude more abundant than oil. Why be so dependent on such a scarce resource? Why burn something for energy that is so valuable for plastics and pharmaceuticals?

 

[Jr mason]

The answer to your questions is simple - cost. The US can't compete with China in simple manufacturing. They have cheap electricity rates, a cheap work force, and practically no EPA or OSHA equivalent to worry about compliance. If we relied on ourselves to build solar panels from scratch nobody here could afford them, even with the heavy subsidies. Its not a cheap manufacturing process. The govt knows this and gave up the farm to get us "hooked"

 

[turbobrick240]

The answer to your questions is simple - cost. The US can't compete with China in simple manufacturing. They have cheap electricity rates, a cheap work force, and practically no EPA or OSHA equivalent to worry about compliance. If we relied on ourselves to build solar panels from scratch nobody here could afford them, even with the heavy subsidies. Its not a cheap manufacturing process. The govt knows this and gave up the farm to get us "hooked"

I think you're answering a question that nobody asked.

 

[Jr mason]

I think you're answering a question that nobody asked.

Are you always this helpful?

 

[1854sailor]

Can we please get this thread back on topic? If not, it's going to be closed...