Diesel shortage.

[Jr mason]

Iraq war was not to save a few bucks. It was to stop Saddam from controlling the world oil market. If we wanted the oil for the money spent on military we could have had it for much less on the open market.

Exactly. And regardless of how much oil America uses there will ALWAYS be a vested interest when a country attempts to overthrow another country for its resources.

 

[Ragdude]

Use less Diesel.

Embark on mass electrification that would put the war buildup in the 1930s and 40s to shame. Require 'shore power' be provided at truck stops and ban idling trucks. Add cantilever power for trains and uphill sections for trucks. The only real solution is to break our dependency.

How about we let the free market decide? If/when ev's are the better choice, they'll take over. Much like the ice did to the horse and buggy market. It's not big brother governments job to pick winners/losers, and certainly not the taxpayers responsibility to build ev charging stations. Mobil/Chevron/etc built there own places of business, if they want to build charge stations, great!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

How about we let the free market decide? If/when ev's are the better choice, they'll take over. Much like the ice did to the horse and buggy market. It's not big brother governments job to pick winners/losers.

This is what Toyota's chairman said. EVs don't fit every need, and consumers want to be able to choose the type of vehicle they buy. If EVs are great, then the market will move that way. And if they aren't they won't. Let the market decide.

 

[nwdiver]

How about we let the free market decide?

Sure. We just need to internalize the external costs into the price so the market can actually work. Having a carrier battle group in the gulf 24/7/365 isn't cheap. That needs to be added to the cost. Dealing with the adverse health effects of refining and burning diesel isn't cheap. That needs to be added to the cost. Dealing with rising sea level and supercharged storms isn't cheap... add that. Etc, Etc, Etc.

 

[TDIDaveNH]

This thread would be inestimably more entertaining if it were meme based only...just a thought

 

[[486]]

Exactly. And regardless of how much oil America uses there will ALWAYS be a vested interest when a country attempts to overthrow another country for its resources.

well our military meddling in the oil market always seems to be about countries trying to start up a currency that is not the USD
Everyone wants a currency that is more stable, possibly pegged directly to a commodity, but if enough people were to transition to such a currency then the USD loses its greatest/only strength; everyone uses it

Think about where the value behind the currency comes from when they're doing inflationary spending; directly from the labor of anyone that is holding onto the USD. The value behind the currency doesn't just appear from nowhere, it is fractioned off of the existing supply of currency.

Now apply that line of thinking to our obscene military budget and all of our stupid 'oil wars' and meddling in global politics. Easy enough to see that junk as 'currency wars' instead, destabilizing competing currencies so that those who print ours can continue quietly skimming off the value behind it and stealing from everyone that uses it as a store of value in any amount. It's a tax on the poor that knows no nationality, since many people in poorer countries do hold onto the USD as a better store of value than their own local currencies.

 

[braddies]

unrestricted draft in any stove will do that
but you also run into it possibly ejecting far more heat out the flue than it radiates into the room, to the point that you're better off leaving a window open than running the wood stove, because at least you don't need to feed the window

The trick with a rocket stove is to turn it into a Rocket MASS heater (RMH) where the exhaust from the stove is routed through a "mass" that absorbs the heats and slowly realeses it overnight, slowly, best case scenario into the mattress you're sleeping on.
When built optimuly the exhaust leaving the chimney is Luke warm.
Rocket mass heater 101

 

[turbobrick240]

The trick with a rocket stove is to turn it into a Rocket MASS heater (RMH) where the exhaust from the stove is routed through a "mass" that absorbs the heats and slowly realeses it overnight, slowly, best case scenario into the mattress you're sleeping on.
When built optimuly the exhaust leaving the chimney is Luke warm.
Rocket mass heater 101

The older and more elegant versions of this principle are known as Finnish/Russian fireplaces or masonry heaters. A home that requires 10 cord using a smoky, inefficient outdoor boiler can be heated with 3 cord using one of these. My firewood side hustle has been busy this season. Heat pumps are really taking off here in Maine, too. The key is to get one the of newer, cold climate units. Still good to have a backup, but many of the cold climate pumps are good down to -15F, which is 99% of the heating season here.

 

[DuraBioPwr]

How do you build your EV infrastructure WITHOUT diesel? Do the EV people understand that 80% of the electricity in this country is still derived from fossil fuel? We have made maybe a 2% increase in overall electricity from wind and solar since the 70s. It will never provide reliable base load power. Nuclear will but the lefty zealots dont like those either.

I totally agree that humanity needs another way of powering itself other than burning something, but the current plan by the zealots will crash global economies and lead to mass starvation. But maybe thats really the plan.

Fix the base power first with heavy investment in nuclear and let EVs slowly mature to where they can compete in range with ICE trucks and cars. In the meanwhile keep fossil fuels cheap so we can actually afford to build the future. If we devolve to a third world economy due to stratospheric fuel prices not much will happen. How EV tech has the thrid world created.

 

[[486]]

How do you build your EV infrastructure WITHOUT diesel? Do the EV people understand that 80% of the electricity in this country is still derived from fossil fuel? We have made maybe a 2% increase in overall electricity from wind and solar since the 70s. It will never provide reliable base load power.

don't worry, battery technology will advance just as it has in the last hundred years
wait, it hasn't significantly advanced in a hundred years?
uhhhh

pump more water atop mountains
spin some flywheels really fast
stack up some concrete blocks and then unstack them
yeah, that'll totally work

 

[DuraBioPwr]

don't worry, battery technology will advance just as it has in the last hundred years
wait, it hasn't significantly advanced in a hundred years?
uhhhh

pump more water atop mountains
spin some flywheels really fast
stack up some concrete blocks and then unstack them
yeah, that'll totally work

Your zealotry is shinning through. Zero coherent replies to anything I said.

 

[TDIDaveNH]

paging Stanley Meyer.....

 

[turbobrick240]

How do you build your EV infrastructure WITHOUT diesel? Do the EV people understand that 80% of the electricity in this country is still derived from fossil fuel?

It's actually less than 60% now- assuming you mean the US by "this country". Probably significantly less in Canada. You're correct that we can't just go cold turkey off fossil fuels instantly, but almost nobody is advocating for that.

 

[[486]]

Your zealotry is shinning through. Zero coherent replies to anything I said.

heh, you're just looking for someone to be mad at aren't you. :v
reread my post but with less preconcieved notions of any animosity directed at you or your message

 

[DuraBioPwr]

It's actually less than 60% now- assuming you mean the US by "this country". Probably significantly less in Canada. You're correct that we can't just go cold turkey off fossil fuels instantly, but almost nobody is advocating for that.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

Yes 20% of the 80% i stated is nuclear. I stand corrected. Does not change the fact that wind and solar is 12% combined. So charge all those EVs with 60% fossil fuel derived power. Makes alot of sense.

Seems pretty obvious that the current regime would like an abrupt transition as less than 25days of diesel in reserve and no permitting allowed for new refineries and or expansions. One hurricane away from that reserve being gone.

 

[turbobrick240]

don't worry, battery technology will advance just as it has in the last hundred years
wait, it hasn't significantly advanced in a hundred years?
uhhhh

Run that by Dr. John Goodenough. He's 100 years old and won the Nobel Prize in chemistry a few years ago. And it wasn't for his groundbreaking work on the lead acid battery.

 

[nwdiver]

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

. So charge all those EVs with 60% fossil fuel derived power. Makes alot of sense.

.... which is why that doesn't happen. EVs are charged off-peak ~90% of the time when electricity is cheaper. Also happens to be when renewables are FAR more abundant. Check out SPP. Almost every night this week there's going to be so much wind energy the wholesale cost of electricity is likely going to be negative. Not only would charging an EV in the early morning be ~100% wind but it's likely to be wind energy that would have been wasted if there wasn't a battery to put it in.

We need batteries to add more renewables. EVs ARE batteries. Win-Win.

 

[Ragdude]

Sure. We just need to internalize the external costs into the price so the market can actually work. Having a carrier battle group in the gulf 24/7/365 isn't cheap. That needs to be added to the cost. Dealing with the adverse health effects of refining and burning diesel isn't cheap. That needs to be added to the cost. Dealing with rising sea level and supercharged storms isn't cheap... add that. Etc, Etc, Etc.

And just how are we going to magically produce all the electricity needed ? Solar and wind isn't gonna cut it, nuclear is the best answer, but thats probably not gonna happen either. And you're assuming if we all go EV we won't need the military anymore??

 

[braddies]

Didja hear about the new electric firetrucks?

When they catch on fire they put themselves out

 

[nwdiver]

And just how are we going to magically produce all the electricity needed ? Solar and wind isn't gonna cut it, nuclear is the best answer, but thats probably not gonna happen either. And you're assuming if we all go EV we won't need the military anymore??

What is this magic upper limit to solar and wind you think exists? 100GW? 1TW? 10TW? Do you think land area is the limit? Materials?

Last year the US produced 542TWh from wind and solar. You need ~12kWh of electricity do to the same amount of work as 1 gallon of diesel. So that's already the equivalent of ~1 Billion barrels of diesel. Peak US oil consumption was ~7B bbl/yr. So increasing Renewables by ~15x will provide enough energy to completely offset 100% of electric generation and 100% of transportation fuels. At current growth rates that's ~20 years. ~20 years to stop this idiocy of burning things for energy.

Nuclear is great. It's just too expensive and too slow. You can increase generation from wind and solar 5x more for the same price in 1/10th the time.

No, I'm 'assuming' it's a lot cheaper to have your military at home than half-way around the world protecting an increasingly scarce supply of oil.

Didja hear about the new electric firetrucks?

When they catch on fire they put themselves out

It's funny.... if you google search 'fire truck on fire' you get a surprising number of results.... and none of them are electric.

 

[J_dude]

...but the current plan by the zealots will crash global economies and lead to mass starvation. But maybe thats really the plan.

Aaand we have a winner!!
Not hard to figure out when “the world is overpopulated” happens to be the popular mantra.

 

[Jr mason]

No, I'm 'assuming' it's a lot cheaper to have your military at home than half-way around the world protecting an increasingly scarce supply of oil.

Why are we pumping billions into Ukraine to fend off Putin and his thugs?
It ain't for the oil!

Your really starting to sound like a broken record.

 

[J_dude]

It's funny.... if you google search 'fire truck on fire' you get a surprising number of results.... and none of them are electric.

Well gee I wonder if that has anything to do with the minuscule number of electric fire trucks in service, compared with the number of ICE powered fire trucks...

Also interesting how Tesla’s service vehicles aren’t even electric... brings to mind an old saying about trusting a skinny chef lol.

 

[nwdiver]

Why are we pumping billions into Ukraine to fend off Putin and his thugs?
It ain't for the oil!

What is Putin selling to finance him and his thugs?

Also interesting how Tesla’s service vehicles aren’t even electric... brings to mind an old saying about trusting a skinny chef lol.

Ride along with Tesla Mobile Service and fix some electric cars

 

[Jr mason]

What is Putin selling to finance him and his thugs?

Irrelevant. Putin ain't going after oil, either. So Why are we so interested in "saving" Ukraine?

 

[nwdiver]

Irrelevant. Putin ain't going after oil, either. So Why are we so interested in "saving" Ukraine?

It's irrelevant that if we were't buying diesel from Ruzzia they would have ~no money to buy the missiles that they're using to kill Ukrainians? .... um.... ok... suuure Whatever helps you sleep....

We're interested in 'saving' Ukraine to avoid history repeating...and we also need to keep our promises.

 

[Jr mason]

Thanks for debunking your myth that oil drives all wars.

 

[nwdiver]

Thanks for debunking your myth that oil drives all wars.

Where did I suggest it drives ALL war? It drives war. What percentage of war is acceptable? And the Ukraine conflict is absolutely funded by oil. If not for oil revenue it's ~impossible for Ruzzia to have invaded and probably would have been impossible for Putin to have maintained an autocracy.

Is smoking not bad because some lung cancer isn't caused by smoking?

It is ironic that you're questioning the connection of oil and war on a 'diesel shortage' thread when the shortage is the result of a war funded by oil

 

[[486]]

Run that by Dr. John Goodenough. He's 100 years old and won the Nobel Prize in chemistry a few years ago. And it wasn't for his groundbreaking work on the lead acid battery.

li-ion is neat, but it still isn't able to handle peaking loads, it can be trialled in small scale, but to store a statistically significant amount of energy you're looking for rare earths that we just don't have enough of
There are large-scale battery banks in california, they seem to catch fire from time to time, but...

It's irrelevant that if we were't buying diesel from Ruzzia they would have ~no money to buy the missiles that they're using to kill Ukrainians? .... um.... ok... suuure Whatever helps you sleep....

We're interested in 'saving' Ukraine to avoid history repeating...and we also need to keep our promises.

'keep our promises'
you mean that we'll be doing something about that nordstream pipeline, or the promises to end the keystone pipeline and roll back US oil independence?

 

[turbobrick240]

li-ion is neat, but it still isn't able to handle peaking loads, it can be trialled in small scale, but to store a statistically significant amount of energy you're looking for rare earths that we just don't have enough of
There are large-scale battery banks in california, they seem to catch fire from time to time, but...

'keep our promises'
you mean that we'll be doing something about that nordstream pipeline, or the promises to end the keystone pipeline and roll back US oil independence?

Lithium iron phosphate is currently the best battery chemistry for power storage on a mass scale, imo. No rare earth elements required there. Lithium, iron, phosphorous, and graphite are all pretty abundant, actually. What storage method requires rare earth elements? Flywheels? I don't think massive flywheels would be using neodymium magnets.